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Kyle Dokran
Golden Lagoon Inc.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.18 13:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey all;
I am considering moving in to a WH, i have a fairly good understanding of mechanics etc, however i am uncertain as the the class of WH to move in to or would best suit us, so i would appreciate some advice.
We will probably be 3-6 ppl (real people), all with alts.
What we would like:
- some PvP ability within the WHs but also PvP outside - fairly easy access to K-Space as required - Ability to make good isk to fund the PvP form the WH/Statics
My thoughts:
C2 with C2 or C3/LS static - will this kind of WH bring decent isk opportunities?, i know it will likely offer good PvP but im concerned about can we make enough isk to support ourselves?
C3/LS static - my concern with this is no WH static, again i think the PvP side is ok but do you feel a C2 with a static WH is better than a C3 without for isk making?
C4 - Havent heard anyone say anything good about these tbh?
C5 - We dont really want to move in to a C5 as we prob wont have the capital capacity to defend it, or if we did we would be concerned of heavy fleets rolling in to evict etc if we did have limited capital capacity?
Any advice you experienced WH fellows could offer would be appreciated.
Thanks
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King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
38
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Posted - 2014.04.18 14:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
There must be a 100 topics on this but I will bite.
C2- Great statics. Live in the C2 and use your statics to farm. Great statics include whatever you can run. Always easy to get back to K-Space. Lots of pvp from roamers. I have never run into an empty C2
C3- Used to be my personal favorite. Probably best isk/hr solo character in WH's. Most are occupied. Get a LS static or else you will have everyone and their Heron in your hole or get a NS static if you want to run 0.0 sites or pvp.
C4- People say these are the best for noob corps, I don't see it that way. C4's are kinda like the ultimate adventure for dual boxers or PVE casual players. There are no statics to K-space. Probably have to go through 2-4 WHs to get out so stock up on 3 months of fuel at all times. Massive isk/hr but you need a dual box alt so per character not the best. A lot of empty C4s
If you want PVP and wasy access to k-space along with some isk making I would recommend you a C3 w/NS static. |

Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
128
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 14:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
If your folks are consistently online together, a C2 with static HS/C4 is a great fit. 2 People is all that is needed to run C4 sites (with alts monitoring any wh connections) and 150 - 300 mil ISK/hr is not at all hard to achieve. C4 is also easy to roll (Y683 2bil wh) great for PVP if you take the time to scan down the chain. And obviously static HS makes logistics and movement a breeze. Also easy to roll a 2 bil B274. While a static C3 is great for ISK, it is equally great for getting ganked as folks tend to solo run sites which leads to complacency and subsequent explosions (and not of the Sleeper variety). Lol. But proper positioning of scouts can make the C3 manageable as well.
Whatever you do, remember that for C4 and below, the best ISK comes from farming your static, not your home. Even HS diving out your HS static, looking for wh to farm, is better and more consistent income. Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you... |

Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
1498
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
I would even try a c2 with a null/c5 static. Running some null sites along with the c5 gas/relics/data would be a great source of isk. Also, being in a c2 still gives you plenty of access to lower wh space connections and k-space No trolling please |

Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's Red Coat Conspiracy
21
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Posted - 2014.04.18 15:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
C2 - can get a little busy with all the other c2 kholes that you are likely to get. Lots of pvp potential. Especially ganking hisec divers.
C3 - no ISK flow from static and probably need a LS or NS in order for it to be empty; however, easy to manage pve. and pvp can be had in static or kholes. Probably easiest solo hole. I don't think it's the best for groups. Easiest
C4 - can be nice, but is not easy for new chars (sub ~8 million). as far as pve goes, most spawns and orbits are 80+ and peak incoming DPS can be 1300-1500 dps. Easiest kspace connection for logistics and best for pvp would be a c3 or c2 static. c4 static would give you lots of pve opportunity, but logistics become a nightmare. and pvp might be difficult to find near home. You would need to risk about a billion for pve with each site paying out about 80-100 million (should take 15-25 minutes).
C5 - it's not as bad as you think. Most won't commit to actually evicting you. downside is that you would need at least a 10 billion ISK fleet to escalate sites fully and maximize ISK (600-800 million ISK). Some of the big groups will expect/demand a sacrifice of sorts. Not sure why. You could look into a c5-c4 or c5-c3? Maybe a few months down the line, but I would consider it now. Lived in a c5-c2 and loved it. those statics also had very manageable mass (1 billion) so it was really easy to rage roll for pvp, logistics, etc. |

King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:I would even try a c2 with a null/c5 static. Running some null sites along with the c5 gas/relics/data would be a great source of isk. Also, being in a c2 still gives you plenty of access to lower wh space connections and k-space
Yeah a C2 NS/C5 would be pretty good for what he wants... but his group will run into some very well organized C5 corps and get wasted.
Also I would never recommend someone live in a C2 with a C4 static for pvp... C4 people like to be loners, they are hard to sort out chains to even find someone and unless you want to sit at their pos cloaked waiting for them to warp you aren't going to pvp anything. |

Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's Red Coat Conspiracy
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:I would even try a c2 with a null/c5 static. Running some null sites along with the c5 gas/relics/data would be a great source of isk. Also, being in a c2 still gives you plenty of access to lower wh space connections and k-space
pretty good advice right there |

Rall Mekin
End-of-Line Sky Syndicate
309
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:I would even try a c2 with a null/c5 static. Running some null sites along with the c5 gas/relics/data would be a great source of isk. Also, being in a c2 still gives you plenty of access to lower wh space connections and k-space
Confirming this will be the next big thing. I am serious--with the ability to ninja relic/data sites and do static sites in marauders, its definitely a good farming situation. http://imgur.com/yEQqAeb |

Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's Red Coat Conspiracy
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
King Aires wrote:Yeah a C2 NS/C5 would be pretty good for what he wants... but his group will run into some very well organized C5 corps and get wasted.
Also I would never recommend someone live in a C2 with a C4 static for pvp... C4 people like to be loners, they are hard to sort out chains to even find someone and unless you want to sit at their pos cloaked waiting for them to warp you aren't going to pvp anything.
If by "very well organized", you mean large in numbers...then yes.
I'd say most wormhole groups, by nature, are pretty unorganized. Wormholes tend to attract more of the cowboy types rather than career marine officer. |

King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rall Mekin wrote:Bane Nucleus wrote:I would even try a c2 with a null/c5 static. Running some null sites along with the c5 gas/relics/data would be a great source of isk. Also, being in a c2 still gives you plenty of access to lower wh space connections and k-space Confirming this will be the next big thing. I am serious--with the ability to ninja relic/data sites and do static sites in marauders, its definitely a good farming situation.
PVP corps living out of C2's is nothing new. But I think you knew that already 
Probably his best bet for income/pvp/ease of access |
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King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:King Aires wrote:Yeah a C2 NS/C5 would be pretty good for what he wants... but his group will run into some very well organized C5 corps and get wasted.
Also I would never recommend someone live in a C2 with a C4 static for pvp... C4 people like to be loners, they are hard to sort out chains to even find someone and unless you want to sit at their pos cloaked waiting for them to warp you aren't going to pvp anything. If by "very well organized", you mean large in numbers...then yes. I'd say most wormhole groups, by nature, are pretty unorganized. Wormholes tend to attract more of the cowboy types rather than career marine officer.
I know what alliance you are in, so I am very confused as to your underestimation of strong pvp from C5 groups. C5 is probably the highest rate of highskilled pvp players in WHs. |

Ashimat
Clandestine Services
126
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
What Nash and Bane wrote, basically.
It's the static that define the system more then anything else. A C4/C4 is a totally different beast than a C4/C2. You need to consider what kind of statics that your intended static usually have, because that will decide what kind of chains you typically get. If you, as Nash suggested, learn how to roll your statics you can control your environment and basically decide what kind of system you are getting access to.
This is particularly true if your static is a C2 since there usually are so many connecting wormholes in C2s, they will provide you with C1s, C2s, C4 as well as HS and LS exits. A number of them even have nullsec statics. Not satisfied with your current C2? - just roll it.
Another thing that people often miss is what kind of incomming WHs different systems usually attract. Anyone living in a C5 know that you don't need a static nullsec, you get plenty of K162s from null as it is. Sure, you cant roll it looking for a specific region, but maybe that's not a problem? C4s usually are really bad at this, most exciting you normally see is another C4, here you are much more dependant on your static to provide interesting chains.
Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com |

King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ashimat wrote:What Nash and Bane wrote, basically.
It's the static that define the system more then anything else. A C4/C4 is a totally different beast than a C4/C2. You need to consider what kind of statics that your intended static usually have, because that will decide what kind of chains you typically get. If you, as Nash suggested, learn how to roll your statics you can control your environment and basically decide what kind of system you are getting access to.
This is particularly true if your static is a C2 since there usually are so many connecting wormholes in C2s, they will provide you with C1s, C2s, C4 as well as HS and LS exits. A number of them even have nullsec statics. Not satisfied with your current C2? - just roll it.
Another thing that people often miss is what kind of incomming WHs different systems usually attract. Anyone living in a C5 know that you don't need a static nullsec, you get plenty of K162s from null as it is. Sure, you cant roll it looking for a specific region, but maybe that's not a problem? C4s usually are really bad at this, most exciting you normally see is another C4, here you are much more dependant on your static to provide interesting chains.
Living in a C4/C4 myself and I can agree that C4 statics are terrible for what he wants. Basically I spend my time scanning out several systems deep for a C1-3 to get out, but often I end up in a 3 chain C4-C4 connection. |

Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's Red Coat Conspiracy
21
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Oh don't get me wrong. I am not underestimating any individual player. I think the individuals are mostly good pvpers. My opinion is that the independent nature of the individual can make it difficult to organize. And instead, we get a very fluid corp picture in wh space. Didn't mean to digress. My point is that it shouldn't eliminate a c5 for him and his group. |

King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 15:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ghenghis Kralj wrote:Oh don't get me wrong. I am not underestimating any individual player. I think the individuals are mostly good pvpers. My opinion is that the independent nature of the individual can make it difficult to organize. And instead, we get a very fluid corp picture in wh space. Didn't mean to digress. My point is that it shouldn't eliminate a c5 for him and his group.
Right, C5/NS is a top contender for what he wants. However the nature of C3's being a cross roads for k162 he could get a NS C3 and have much more inside income and outside 0.0 sites with all the pvp he can eat.
NS statics are pretty nice from what I am told because it completely negates the organized warning systems of 0.0 intel.
Anyways, a C2 or C3 is what he wants with a NS exit. |

Karen Galeo
Sin Factory Infinite Anarchy
34
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 18:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
King Aires wrote:
Living in a C4/C4 myself and I can agree that C4 statics are terrible for what he wants. Basically I spend my time scanning out several systems deep for a C1-3 to get out, but often I end up in a 3 chain C4-C4 connection.
Yea. C5/C4 on this end. We get a lot of long chains of 4's and 5's; it's not hard to find someone eventually, but they might be two or three holes down the chain.
For the OP, I'd suggest a C2/C3, a C2/C5, or a C2/C2. C2/C2 will have the least income, but the most pew. C2/C3 would be the easiest income, but you'd be mostly dependent on connections to your home system for chains. C2/C5 would let you roll into escalation fleets. :D Author of the Karen 162 blog. Karen Galeo is running for CSM9! |

Joran Sothos
Rogue Gear Squad Antykythera Mechanism
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 18:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
I haven't seen it mentioned, so I'll bite and that is don't forget your PI potential. A lot of isk can be made making the right kind of PI and it takes very little effort. |

Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
158
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 23:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
C4s are for living in peace. C2s are full of pro leet pvper C3s static to low sec |

Andrew Jester
Sky Fighters Sky Syndicate
124
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 04:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
Move to C6, enjoy eviction, have Ragnarok make thread about how they're so pr0 |

Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
62
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 06:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
C4's are the absolute worst. Don't move into one. |
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Ashimat
Clandestine Services
126
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 11:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Adoris Nolen wrote:C4's are the absolute worst. Don't move into one. Can't you keep your useless trolling to your own threads and let the grownups be? In two sentences you managed to get three things wrong and give bad advice on top of that - something obvious for anyone that actually read the thread. Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com |

King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
38
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 12:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Adoris Nolen wrote:C4's are the absolute worst. Don't move into one.
Yes, please, everyone think this. Please  |

1c3crysta1
Autarky The Autonomy
26
|
Posted - 2014.04.19 19:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
C2: All in all, provides for an active experience, since there's many active corps whoms wormholes connects to this type. Two statics means more stuff to do, but more hostile traffic aswell. Wandering wormholes quite often connects to high-sec, which provides an irregular path for logistics, if the static is unfavourable. - C2/LS static: PvE from the C2 static, can imagine that it could be messy since your own, your static and that static needs to be controlled. (Unless you're planning to grind C2s...) PvP opportunities should be plentiful. Decent availability from a logistical standpoint. - C3/HS static: PvE from the C3 static, a fairly good source. PvP opportunities in the C3 might be good, but its statics should provide a more consistent source of PvP since many C3 corps are inactive. These are usually quite attractive, so finding one is harder. All in all, a good balance of PvE/PvP/logistics. - C4/HS static: Same as above, but harder sites and the static provides for a more wormhole-centered PvP-experience. -C5/NS static: A completely different wormhole. C5s sites are hard, you'll need to coordinate your grinding unless you're very confident in your marauader/multiboxing setups. Add to this that C5s residents will usually outnumber you fairly heavily, they will be hard to roll if you encounter a hole into a blood-thirsty entity. The null-sec static allows you to do deep-ns coops, both PvE and PvP, but provides for no easy route for logistics. I'd say that this type of wormhole is pretty hardcore, but can be golden in the right hands.
C3: No WH static, which means that you won't be farming sleepers when you own sites are empty (unless you run into a wandering in incoming wormhole). Keep in mind that many C5 that are occupied that isn't of the type C5/C5 are C5/C3, so you'll have more traffic from C5 coorps than average. Wandering wormholes quite often connects to high-sec, which provides an irregular path for logistics, if the static is unfavourable. - HS static: Easy logistics, but it means that your pvp and pve will start from a high-sec system, for good or bad. Very attractive, finding an empty one will require luck/dedication. - LS static: Decent logistics, fairly often a system directly connected to the big hs-blob, which makes it fairly safe if you scout the gate. Probably the worst pve-capabilies, unless you connect to a back-water system with some 6/10 DEDs. - NS static: Your logistics are dependant on other wormholes than your static, which makes then irregular. If you mind that, don't bother with this one. If you can handle it, and like what null-sec offers, this a good base.
C4: As silent as a wormhole can become. Wandering wormholes to and from this type doesn't exist, which means that all wormholes in such a system is either the static or a K162. On top of that, it belongs to deep-wh space which means that there doesn't exist any K-space statics. This means that there's NEVER a direct link to k-space from these systems. - C1 static: This might be an option, if you want a way for logistics, since 153/348 of these connects to hs and 105/348 them connects to ls. They are most often more safe than other types of wormholes to travel through aswell, since most of the inhabitants in these holes and industrialists. Just keep in mind that the holes doesn't allow battleships or heavier targets through and that the rats in here are close to worthless. - C2 static: More for the PvP than the PvE since you'd want for look for the static of your static to farm. The logistical capabilies are good, but safety in the C2 might be an issue. - C3 static: PvE capabilities are great for a corp of your size. PvP in or through the statics provides for a good source. Logistics are good and most often quite safe. Probably the most inhabited of the C4s. - C4 static: The ultimate carebear system. Neither your own system or your statics will contain many wormholes, so it's easy to find a system to farm in. Both the PvP and the logistical interests are subsided for this though, since C4/C4s are famous for their endless C4-C4 highways. - C5 static: Quite the hardcore system. Unless another system opens up a wormhole to you, everything you'll do, you'll do through a C5. For me, if I were in a small corp, that'd be enough said. But if you like being underdogs and doing things the hard way, go for it!
C5: Hardcore mode for a corp of your size. The PvP might be good if you get a static that suits you, the PvE might be good if you do everything together or multibox very well. But bear in mind that most of the big PvP-entities out here lives in C5/C5, which means that their static could lead to your system. This is also where the capitals in wormholes starts to make an apperance. A C5 system connects very often to lowsec and nullsec thanks to the wandering wormholes, both from and to the C5 itself. This means that logistics might be manageble even without using the static. I've heard that C5s with sub-C5 statics are less attractive to capital seige due to the potential hassle of getting that capital back home. - C1 static: Pretty much the same as for a C4/C1. Small but safe and consistent link for logistics, but doesn't provide much for the gameplay. Grab this if you know that you own hole provides what you need and want a small but safe link hs/ls. - C2 static: See above C4/C2, the difference here might be the total mass of the wh, I think it's 1 billion tonnes instead of 2. - C3 static: See above C4/C3, the difference here might be the total mass of the wh, I think it's 1 billion tonnes instead of 2. - C4 static: See above C4/C4, the mass is the same aswell.
tl:dr -> I'd say that: C2/HS/C3, C2/HS/C4, C4/C3 suits your needs best. A C2/NS/C5 or C3/NS if you're tempted to have a direct connection to null-sec and can handle the logistics. A C2/NS/C5, C4/C5 or any C5 if you want to play with the big fish. |

Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
364
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 15:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
King Aires wrote:Also I would never recommend someone live in a C2 with a C4 static for pvp... C4 people like to be loners, they are hard to sort out chains to even find someone and unless you want to sit at their pos cloaked waiting for them to warp you aren't going to pvp anything. You might be surprised, but a C4 static is amazing for PvP. Not necessarily always in the C4 itself, but you can get some beautiful chains filled with ripe, juicy targets. A C4 will connect to every single class of W-space; don't like your current static or its chain, put a couple of Orcas through and you're finished in one pass, ready to scan down a new C4 chain.
The difference is that you may have to actually, y'know, move more than one system over to find action. I know, I know, radical thinking, but it works!
|

Nash MacAllister
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
129
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 18:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Meytal wrote: You might be surprised, but a C4 static is amazing for PvP. Not necessarily always in the C4 itself, but you can get some beautiful chains filled with ripe, juicy targets. A C4 will connect to every single class of W-space; don't like your current static or its chain, put a couple of Orcas through and you're finished in one pass, ready to scan down a new C4 chain.
The difference is that you may have to actually, y'know, move more than one system over to find action. I know, I know, radical thinking, but it works!
This. But, the Op has a damn good overview of their options now with a surprising amount of on-topic discussion.  Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you... |

Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
51
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 18:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nash MacAllister wrote:Meytal wrote: You might be surprised, but a C4 static is amazing for PvP. Not necessarily always in the C4 itself, but you can get some beautiful chains filled with ripe, juicy targets. A C4 will connect to every single class of W-space; don't like your current static or its chain, put a couple of Orcas through and you're finished in one pass, ready to scan down a new C4 chain.
The difference is that you may have to actually, y'know, move more than one system over to find action. I know, I know, radical thinking, but it works!
This. But, the Op has a damn good overview of their options now with a surprising amount of on-topic discussion. 
I can vouch for this, c4 chains are great fun sometimes. |

Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
2188
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 18:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ashimat wrote:Adoris Nolen wrote:C4's are the absolute worst. Don't move into one. Can't you keep your useless trolling to your own threads and let the grownups be? In two sentences you managed to get three things wrong and give bad advice on top of that - something obvious for anyone that actually read the thread.
If you have paid attention to the Nolen clan (won't blame you if you don't) at all, they have often complained about too many people in C4 space so it is not surprising they would try and downplay C4 space.
meytal wrote:You might be surprised, but a C4 static is amazing for PvP. Not necessarily always in the C4 itself, but you can get some beautiful chains filled with ripe, juicy targets. A C4 will connect to every single class of W-space; don't like your current static or its chain, put a couple of Orcas through and you're finished in one pass, ready to scan down a new C4 chain.
The difference is that you may have to actually, y'know, move more than one system over to find action. I know, I know, radical thinking, but it works!
Definitely true. You just really have to enjoy scanning. 15 systems last night and nothing |

King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
43
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 11:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
WH PVE sucks donkey balls, and therefore you should make your choice on the basis of PVP availability.
C2 > C2+lowsec is by far the best place to live in w-space for this reason.
|

Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
565
|
Posted - 2014.04.23 15:02:00 -
[29] - Quote
Meytal wrote:King Aires wrote:Also I would never recommend someone live in a C2 with a C4 static for pvp... C4 people like to be loners, they are hard to sort out chains to even find someone and unless you want to sit at their pos cloaked waiting for them to warp you aren't going to pvp anything. You might be surprised, but a C4 static is amazing for PvP. Not necessarily always in the C4 itself, but you can get some beautiful chains filled with ripe, juicy targets. A C4 will connect to every single class of W-space; don't like your current static or its chain, put a couple of Orcas through and you're finished in one pass, ready to scan down a new C4 chain. The difference is that you may have to actually, y'know, move more than one system over to find action. I know, I know, radical thinking, but it works!
Totally overlooking that c4s are - afterall - the most pvp-dead of all areas in eve. And it's not only c4s that connect everywhere, everythig besides c1/c3 can connect anywhere via static. A chain is also quite terrible more often than not, it's just way better to scan a static, scan like 1-2 holes into the chain and - if empty - just roll it. That way you don't have some 5 jumps and a total of 300AU to warp in case something does happen. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures |
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