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Kassidus
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:22:00 -
[1]
Ok so im gallente , but ive taken to Amarr ships Im flying an Apoc with mega Modal pulses etc etc.
Now ive been trying lvl4's slowly as im only a few months into the game, and some missions are reasonably difficult, drone missions are pretty easy lasers just demolish drone sheilds.
But thats about it, theres not many lvl4 missions that are doable using an amarr ship, some of the angel missions are down right impossible I just cant do enough damage on a good target i can get wrecking of over 700 but in one angel mission i was seeing wreckings of 30 damage which is rediculous.
So people tell me use a raven, everyone says use a raven, raven this raven that , why should the raven be the only ship in even capeable of soloing lvl4's at a reasonable price? what about players like me that just dont want to fly a raven , we just cant do lvl4 missions?
What i propose is simple make lasers do Kinetic and explosive damage!.
Ok your gonna say but its not possible for a beam of light to do kinetic or explosive damage , First off this is a video game, with things like flying through suns and planets and all other manner of flaws.
Second if you want an explanation for how it works heres one.
All lasers are now Hybrid Injection Lasers, They inject a stream of ionized molecules into the laser forming a particle stream that carries the molecules to the target , and different molecules cause different damage.
Amarr ships would have to carry particle charge containment fields in there cargo hold which you can fill with whichever damage type you need etc etc.
and if there are balance issue drop the damage , problem solved balance gained and now people that like amarr ships can use them.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:23:00 -
[2]
No.
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Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:25:00 -
[3]
From what I am given to understand, Level 4s aren't supposed to be soloable at all.
~Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation |
Ather Ialeas
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:25:00 -
[4]
As far as I know, Amarrs should prefer PvP over PvE.
So no.
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My signature exploded :/ |
Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:26:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Eximius Josari
From what I am given to understand, Level 4s aren't supposed to be soloable at all.
If that/s true, they did a pretty bad job of it :p. Everything PvE in eve is so0loable, up to and including the toughest 10/10 complex in the game. It's quite sad, really.
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
As far as I know, Amarrs should prefer PvP over PvE.
So no.
Originally by: Eximius Josari
From what I am given to understand, Level 4s aren't supposed to be soloable at all.
You're both wrong aswell, mind.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
From what I am given to understand, Level 4s aren't supposed to be soloable at all.
Perhaps not, but they're solo-able pretty easily in a Raven or a Megathron, so they should also be solo-able in an Apoc.
Maybe they are, I haven't tried.
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:26:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
From what I am given to understand, Level 4s aren't supposed to be soloable at all.
You understand wrong i'm afraid. 
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
Fi T'Zeh
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:27:00 -
[9]
Some ships are better than others at certain things
*SHOCK*
....
Real men use blasters |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Eximius Josari
From what I am given to understand, Level 4s aren't supposed to be soloable at all.
If that/s true, they did a pretty bad job of it :p. Everything PvE in eve is so0loable, up to and including the toughest 10/10 complex in the game. It's quite sad, really.
Wether or not its efficient is a whole different story though.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:29:00 -
[11]
Use a command ship ?
I don;t know actually, but it's something different from a Raven.
But let's look at your complaint. You've got a ship doing em and thermal damage but not enough to do the missions well. Yet your weapon type is the ONLY one that functions as well (in terms of dps) at low skill level as at high skill level (no damage bonus on the Apoc, lasers have it built in for your convenience).
Honestly, I doubt wether you'd do any better in a Tempest or Megathron. They could maybe do the killing, but they'd be lacking the tank unless you train up for another year or so.
Some ships pwerform better at pve then others. The Apoc is actually one of the better ones in general, not to mention it can also dish out about as much damage as any other.
I;d be checking my skills if I were you, not my ship.
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Kassidus
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Fi T'Zeh
Some ships are better than others at certain things
*SHOCK*
I understand that in alot of MMO's you are your race, you specialize in your race you take pride in your race, you fly your races ships with pride, unfortunatley in this game everyone fly's ravens. I undock from my lvl4 agent and ravens fill space, with the odd megathron thrown in.
I dont mind training other skills i will get a raven i would like to try one, but in the world of lvl4 missions this game is all about the raven lets called then "raven missions" instead of lvl4's.
You cant do Rp in this game cause you cant stick to your race even if you wanted to and its unfair to some people.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:37:00 -
[13]
It's hardly that. It's possible to, quite comfortably, run missions in an Apoc/Geddon. Trouble is yo'll want good skills and tech2 mods. The Raven on the other hand can get away with tech1/named mods usually. It also requires less skills.
And when people fly a Raven and it works, they'll train up Raven skills, which in turn means they wont switch to another ship later on, when they DO get the skills.
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Benilopax
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:38:00 -
[14]
My amarr alt ****ed me off cos of amarr weapons and ships so I trained caldari instead!
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Benilopax touched by an Avon!
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:42:00 -
[15]
1) you can solo level 4's quite well in dominixes too.
2) I've heard that amarr BS's do lack some in damage compared to others... but can't use them yet. (I only plan to ever fly amarr BS's to try out the uber-tanking I've heard of, and if the Abaddon does turn out to be a drone ship... (admittedly, it does look like it should be a turret ship from the pictures... but you never know) and for mining.
though honestly theres not THAT much reason you can't roleplay it... theres no roleplay reason you'd ABSOLUTELY have to stick to your race's ships... it wouldn't be THAT disgraceful for an amarr to be in a caldari ship or vice versa... I guess it'd be pretty bad RP wise for a gallente to fly an amarr or the other way around...
but from that angle both Gallente/Minm and Caldari/Amarr have at least 1 BS that excels greatly at missions, (in fact I'd say most would say its dominix over Thron...)
if you want a great level 4 mission runner thats roleplayable for your race... well the dominix is great for that.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Eximius Josari
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:43:00 -
[16]
Maybe I am thinking of Level 5s...
~Eximius Josari, Hegemon of the E.A.R.T.H. Federation |
Kassidus
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:45:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kel Shek
1) you can solo level 4's quite well in dominixes too.
2) I've heard that amarr BS's do lack some in damage compared to others... but can't use them yet. (I only plan to ever fly amarr BS's to try out the uber-tanking I've heard of, and if the Abaddon does turn out to be a drone ship... (admittedly, it does look like it should be a turret ship from the pictures... but you never know) and for mining.
though honestly theres not THAT much reason you can't roleplay it... theres no roleplay reason you'd ABSOLUTELY have to stick to your race's ships... it wouldn't be THAT disgraceful for an amarr to be in a caldari ship or vice versa... I guess it'd be pretty bad RP wise for a gallente to fly an amarr or the other way around...
but from that angle both Gallente/Minm and Caldari/Amarr have at least 1 BS that excels greatly at missions, (in fact I'd say most would say its dominix over Thron...)
if you want a great level 4 mission runner thats roleplayable for your race... well the dominix is great for that.
I dropped my domi for the Apoc i hated it, it sounds dumb but its just not a fun ship to fly , and it looks like a big pile of ****.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:46:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/05/2006 09:48:06
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
It's hardly that. It's possible to, quite comfortably, run missions in an Apoc/Geddon. Trouble is yo'll want good skills and tech2 mods. The Raven on the other hand can get away with tech1/named mods usually. It also requires less skills.
And when people fly a Raven and it works, they'll train up Raven skills, which in turn means they wont switch to another ship later on, when they DO get the skills.
I fly the Raven for pve and minmatar ships for pvp. The extra time invested to get caldari battleship and poor missile skills is maybe 2 weeks. All the other skills are used when flying minmatar ships as well, so they are not wasted. Even missile skills will be useful with minmatar when the typhoon or tempest (cant remember which one) gets missile bonuses.
Definently not saying that Raven is bad for pvp. I just like guns better in pvp.
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
DeadDuck
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:47:00 -
[19]
Everything is fine with Amarr. What you are facing is a lack of skills, lack of fitting, or both 
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Auritt
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:51:00 -
[20]
You make a good point about being race specific and taking pride in the ships we fly. I cannot, however, agree with your point regarding Amarrian ships and level 4 missions. The point for me is to meet the challenge. Ok so it might be more difficult for you, but meeting this challenge will make you a better pilot than those who find it easy to do the missions. In the end you'll have superior fighing skills.
Autitt
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kassidus
I dropped my domi for the Apoc i hated it, it sounds dumb but its just not a fun ship to fly , and it looks like a big pile of ****.
lol, personally I found the asthetics of the dominix to grow on me... I mean I used to find it equally unpleasing... but now that I've gotten a bit better with it, and flown it more...
... and tried out a megathron and not liked it as much...
I've found the dominix to be... not as "cool" looking as the thron... but I guess I've just grown to like its look. it FEELS tough.
and I find it reasonably fun to fly... not as FUN-fun as say my ishkur, but I'm not sure any really big, slow ship is going to be as proactively fun as a faster smaller ship.
I look forward to some day flying an Ishtar, and I still hope the Teir 2 Gall BC will be a Drone Ship, (and praying that it'll be a drone ship with a drone COUNT bonus rather than a drone damage/hp bonus)
but then again... I am working up to train for a raven to try it out. day and change for frig 4... another day or so for cruiser 3... then a week for missile operation 5, and then cruiser 4. bleah.
but still, I'm pretty happy with my dominix for most of my money making efforts.
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Kassidus
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: DeadDuck
Everything is fine with Amarr. What you are facing is a lack of skills, lack of fitting, or both
My tank is solid, my mods are the best named moduals and T2 moduals i can find and a couple faction items, ive spent over 350mill on it, I average 200 to 300 damage per weapon with wreckings well over 700. and of corse a couple cruise missles.
But like i said i had to hit some angels at range, and i got "excelent" hits of 8 Damage i mean seriously 8 damage from a BS.
I know im still new and have a ways t go in some skills still but the point is there is an issue and its unfair to some players.
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2006.05.16 09:57:00 -
[23]
The fact that you can't hurt angels with amarr ships is simply because they are vulnerable to explosive dmg and tank EM/thermal better. This doesn't make amarr bad though. Nothing kills sanshas or blood raiders quicker then amarr lasers.
You work for the wrong agent and/or use wrong ships/equipment.
Also keep in mind the the apoc has no bonus to lasers. Think outside of the box!
Also you allways should look at balance in PVP since there it really counts. Amarr ships are just fine in PVP so i see no problem. ;)
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.05.16 10:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kassidus
But like i said i had to hit some angels at range, and i got "excelent" hits of 8 Damage i mean seriously 8 damage from a BS.
I know im still new and have a ways t go in some skills still but the point is there is an issue and its unfair to some players.
The fact that Angels have good resists to EM and Thermal damage doesnt come into the equation then?
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2006.05.16 10:03:00 -
[25]
That's a fact, and I saw it myself. Raven or to a lesser extent Mega are much better for NPC'ing than Apoc or Geddon. On top of this, you can do missions in Scorp or Domi (which is a great mission runner by itself), but doing missions in Geddon is next to impossible. The situation improved after Cold War patch, but still, Caldari and Gallente ships rule in PvE. And, btw, I wouldn't say that Amarr ships are so good in PvP. Amarr inties are average at best as other races inties are better; Amarr af's are simply not for PvP, as Vengeance can mostly be a tackler (and an average tackler too), and Retri has only 1 med slot, which makes any PvP rather difficult. I don't fly HAC's so, I won't comment on them.
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Lluthiunne Atalaron
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Posted - 2006.05.16 10:05:00 -
[26]
Well i fly both my Apoc and Raven out to lvl4 missions just to complete them as fast as i can.
I have to say that at the optimal distance (30km's) the apoc just peels open everything it touches and its tank hasnt been dented by anything ive came up against in lvl4's yet!
However if anything gets within 20km's then the apoc starts to have problems. Ive fitted 2 mediums to my setup to deal with these up n close ships but they have failed so far. may have to opt for smalls.
However the raven who is flown by my secondary character can dish out hurt on everything there quite easily
cruise missiles+target painters+drones=complete lvl4
I cant quite remember but im pretty sure that angels are tanked for EM Thermal so you may want to try guristas or another pirate faction. Ill bet things become much easier for you.
>> The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell and a hell of heaven <<
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Kassidus
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Posted - 2006.05.16 10:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Originally by: Kassidus
But like i said i had to hit some angels at range, and i got "excelent" hits of 8 Damage i mean seriously 8 damage from a BS.
I know im still new and have a ways t go in some skills still but the point is there is an issue and its unfair to some players.
The fact that Angels have good resists to EM and Thermal damage doesnt come into the equation then?
I understand that, and it is also my point, are there any race of ships you cant take down in a raven or a megathron or a tempest ? no you can customzie damage type with all races except amarr.
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Jimmy Tarmac
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Posted - 2006.05.16 10:05:00 -
[28]
I once tried hunting angels with apoc on my old account and just gave up after a short time due to lack of damage. If nothing has changed while I was away from eve im assuming angels still have high resists to lasers.
You could always just turn down the angel missions?
Royal UK Mining Co - Website |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.05.16 10:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kassidus
no you can customzie damage type with all races except amarr.
Gallente - hybrids - no customization. Kinetic and thermal damage only. Works just fine for me, but if it didn't, I'd have enough sense to maybe fit some other type of weaponry?
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2006.05.16 10:19:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 16/05/2006 10:21:23
In Eve, you choose the tools for the job or the job to fit your tools.
It's not one of those games where every tool fits every job.
pve versus angels in an amarr BS is not bringing the right tool for the job or choosing the wrong job for the tool. You either adapt the job, adapt the tool, or find a way to manage past the inconvenience.
And no, that doesn;t mean the tool or job is wrongly designed or balanced. It means you made a bad choice somewhere along the line and need to correct it now.
Train for a domi or raven, it'll function well enough against angels if you use explosive drones or missiles. If not, train up your drone skills and cruiser skills and aim for a tech2 cruiser that can do the job.
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