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Indy corp wardeced and ransomed agin..

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Big Slacker Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.04.22 20:41:00 - [1] - Quote My main char is part of a small indy corp and alliance. We do like many other small indy corps, sitt in stations or play on our alts. Due to that we are at war agin... this time it's one corp and one alliance with over 300 pvp pilots killing all our pilots. Or I should say the once that are still in the corp, many has already left. The score is about 5Bil ISK vs 0 ISK, over 200 ships vs 0 ships. Our "PVP-brigade" is 10 low SP pvp-pilots flying T1's friggs with very little experience of PvP. They are +40 ,both in SP's and experience, skilled T2 and T3 PVPers. And they are really skilled and organized. So we are, like many others a defenseless indy corp at war or I should say at ransom-war agin... it's probably the 5th since January. They want our ISK's ... if we pay we got 10 more Ransom-corps lining-up to take even more ISK's from us. And when ever they want mor ISKs that just call us agin... and agin and agin.. It just sucks that's EvE have turned it to a bully-game... It's not much to say, the game mechanics is set by the developers. It's just to re-roll "Ransom-pilot", play in NPC corp or don't post next check to CCP. It's sucks because I liked to play indy char.... Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively impose domination over others.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 5288	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:11:00 - [2] - Quote Big Slacker wrote: It just sucks that's EvE have turned it to a bully-game... It's not much to say, the game mechanics is set by the developers. Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively impose domination over others. Just FYI... this is how the game has worked since 2004 and you're only catching the tip of the proverbial iceberg. It gets MUCH more intense once you leave high-sec. Now for some constructive advice... If you are facing as many hostiles as you say you are then just a small core of PvPers isn't going to cut it. Everyone, even the industrialists, are going to have to directly contribute in some way. How can everyone contribute? It doesn't take long to train into a fast Ewar ship. ECM and Sensor Dampeners will be most useful so get people into Griffins and Mallus'. Fit them with Microwarpdrives, their respective Ewar, and capacitor boosters for greater longevity. Fly fast and as far away as possible... then saturate the hostiles with Ewar. You don't even have to fit for damage dealing. Just make the fighting as frustrating as possible. Another option is to talk to your aggressors (via private conversation) and explain (politely) that you can't defend yourselves. See if you can cut a deal that doesn't involve ISK. For example: - Singing a song on audio for them can be enough. Just take it in a good natured way and laugh with them. It all for fun and games right? - Another way is to organize one "big fight" for everyone and, win or lose, the dec will be dropped after that (my first corp did this when I was a nubbin... most of us died but it was good fun... and the dec was dropped as promised). - You can also ask them if they can provide hints or tips for fighting them. Basically... we PvPers may be dicks but most of us are not total assholes. If you show a good attitude towards the whole thing (emphasis on this) then chances you will be helped by the very people killing you. However, if you want to take a principled stand and not give an inch... have everyone drop corp for a small while. Bring them back when the war is dropped. And remember that corporations in EVE are fundamentally different in EVE compared to other MMOs. They are not purely "social" things (a mere chat channel can serve this purpose well)... they are an effective declaration to others that you have greater goals in the game and are "ready to play with the big boys." Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Big Slacker Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:34:00 - [3] - Quote Hmm getting indy players to be smart, fast and organized PVPers... 10 of 10 hard... leave corp or play alt's 1 of 10... Don't agree with you that EvE has been a ugly bully-game from 2004... Is it a success for the developers that the only way a small indy corp to survive is to beg (sing... or what ever " I bend for the bullys" activity) on my knees. Or all quit the corp, fleet-up as NPC corp players.... ?? Well sry dude don't see any attractive or even near fun solution. It's just to bend over and join the pvpers....
Cameron Zero Red Federation 325	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:40:00 - [4] - Quote See https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=337928&find=unread for more advice you can use/ignore. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GÇª"
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 280	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:41:00 - [5] - Quote Let's take it into perspective... You are indy corp, what is your main activity... you strong side? You make stuff, you harvest stuff and such. So what you can do? Find merc corp or dedicated pvp corp and supply them with ships and ammo and set up alliance with them. you gain experienced armed brigade they gain fun shooting stuff for free. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
Ethikos SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 13	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:51:00 - [6] - Quote A lot of good advice was given in the thread that was linked above. To summarize there are a couple of good options I would recommend. If they are "ISK Farming" you, consider moving to low sec. Particularly Faction Warfare low sec. The great part about Faction Warfare low sec is that T1 frigates and cruisers can do just fine. Also, your surrounded by small groups that love to PvP and will be more than happy to get on shiny kills. The mechanics of low sec mean that people can get in on kills. As a result of the above, it is unlikely the War Dec corporation will follow you to low sec. In the event that the War Dec corporation does follow you, they will be surrounded by corporations that love to get in on shiny kills (i.e. its no longer you against them). If that is not your cup of tea. Look at some of the newer player friendly alliances out there. In other words get some friends and do not try to go it alone. Diplomacy in EvE is huge, friends are important. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=266074 - Sniggwaffe (Waffles)
Jarvin Spoo Clandestine Management Group SiNTaX err0r 26	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:57:00 - [7] - Quote I know it is frustrating. But EVERYTHING the others have posted will help you. It's not bending over to the bully. Its adapting to figure out how you can defeat them. And understand that 'defeating' them isn't always by blowing up their pod. There are MANY other ways to get back at someone who does that to you. Starting to work with another corp who does PVP was a great idea. You would be surprised at who would jump at the chance to join you in a war against these guys. All in all.....don't think of this so much as bully tactics as much as it is easy target tactics. And in EVE...EVERYONE is looking for an easy target. I hope that this helps. J
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 5288	Posted - 2014.04.22 22:11:00 - [8] - Quote Big Slacker wrote: Hmm getting indy players to be smart, fast and organized PVPers... 10 of 10 hard... leave corp or play alt's 1 of 10... Never said it would be easy. Even with PvPers the term "herding cats" is applicable. Big Slacker wrote: Don't agree with you that EvE has been a ugly bully-game from 2004... That's partially why I joined it. What other game allows you to bully the bully with the exact same methods they use to bully? EVE is basically a perpetual rat race where everyone is trying to dogpile each other for whatever reason. Call me a fanboy if you want... but this is why I enjoyed early Ultima Online and now EVE. Big Slacker wrote: Is it a success for the developers that the only way a small indy corp to survive is to beg (sing... or what ever " I bend for the bullys" activity) on my knees. Or all quit the corp, fleet-up as NPC corp players.... ?? In my neck of the woods, my alliance is one of the "big, bad, blobs"... until another "bigger, badder, blob" decides to come to town and completely outclass us... in which case we lay low and operate around them (because direct engagement is suicide) or give them intel on someone else they might want to chew on. There is always a "bigger fish" in the pond. And don't be above making deals when you have to. Big Slacker wrote: Well sry dude don't see any attractive or even near fun solution. It's just to bend over and join the pvpers.... Three things... 1. Even the most hardened PvPer has to learn the basics of industry and the market to make a profit and ply their trade. This also means that even the best industrialists and traders have to learn a bit about PvP to keep their interests safe. It's a two-way street. 2. Sorry to say... but EVE is not for everyone. For every mineral you mine and product you build you affect everyone else in the sandbox. That means that the sandbox can affect you right back in ways you may or may not like. The trick is to rise to the challenge and adapt to this everlasting "rat race" 3. The game is what you make of it. "When life gives you lemons..." and all that jazz. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 5222	Posted - 2014.04.22 22:21:00 - [9] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: If you are facing as many hostiles as you say you are then just a small core of PvPers isn't going to cut it. Everyone, even the industrialists, are going to have to directly contribute in some way. 10:1 odds are still 10:1 even with everyone participating in EWAR. If you use MWD EWAR frigates, the aggressors will switch to missile and drone boats. Heavy missiles will make very short work of frigates, especially if they're using MWDs and flown by people who don't understand the 500% signature penalty of MWDs. ShahFluffers wrote: Basically... we PvPers may be dicks but most of us are not total assholes. If you show a good attitude towards the whole thing (emphasis on this) then chances you will be helped by the very people killing you. No, you lowsec and null sec PvPers are not all total assholes: you can't afford to be, since you need allies. The hi sec wardeccing folks who pick on corporations much smaller than their own? They're total assholes. The only way of dealing with them is to dock up and stop logging in. Bringing a fight just invites more wardecs. Complaining on the forum invites more wardecs. CCP has hard-wired this kind of behaviour into the wardec mechanism since it's so much cheaper to wardec smaller targets. There is no incentive to wardec someone the same size or larger than your own corporation. The incentive is to pick on the smallest possible targets, since you can wardec half a dozen of them for the same price as one larger corporation. The perverse "paying for the number of targets" mentality that went into the most recent wardec "rebalance" is entirely oriented towards griefing smaller groups of players out of the game. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 5222	Posted - 2014.04.22 22:46:00 - [10] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Big Slacker wrote: Don't agree with you that EvE has been a ugly bully-game from 2004... You do know that the first incarnation of CONCORD was tankable (and was tanked a few times)... and that you could get insurance for suicide ganking your ship... and that war-decs used to cost 2 to 5 million ISK... and that you could once can-bait people anywhere regardless of the system they were in... and that you could gank people in high-sec, warp off to another asteroid belt, and gank again before CONCORD caught up with you... tricking people with incorrect explanations of mechanics... And once upon a time, CONCORD didn't even exist, and players were pretty much free to shoot others in all space. Hisec was introduced because the power balance between new and older players was way out of control: bigger ships were able to take on fleets of smaller ships (this was before things like tracking and signature resolution). When CONCORD was introduced, there were no limits to how many wardecs you could have active at any one time. All these changes have been made to the game because CCP has realised that griefing people out of the game is bad for the community. In the meantime the people whose enjoyment is obtained from the suffering they inflict on other players have refined their techniques. ShahFluffers wrote: EVE is a lot "fluffer" than it used to be. Whatever "bullying" you are experiencing is a pale shadow from what it once was. IMHO it's about the same. We've traded one moo with a hundred wardecs for a hundred smaller corps with a few wardecs each. The type of bullying has changed too: no longer is it simply perpetual wardecs, it's now "Bonus Rooms" GÇô finding ways to personally humiliate the other player. Just because you're more familiar with the nature of the game doesn't mean the game is softer. ShahFluffers wrote: In my neck of the woods, my alliance is one of the "big, bad, blobs"... until another "bigger, badder, blob" decides to come to town and completely outclass us... in which case we lay low and operate around them (because direct engagement is suicide) or give them intel on someone else they might want to chew on. And yet your advice to someone facing a much bigger, badder fish is to get into frigate fleets and engage them? It's not EVE that's gotten soft, it's your head. Here are a few suggestions for how an industrial corp can "work around" the bigger badder fish in hi sec: Move all hauling and in-space activity to contractors or NPC corp alts Switch to (lowsec) exploration while the wardec is active Start an alt in Faction Warfare and learn to make ISK through plex spinning Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Nikolai Lachance Happy Wheels Logistics 77	Posted - 2014.04.22 23:06:00 - [11] - Quote Take that ransom isk and offer it to a merc corp to join you as an ally in the war and take the fight to the aggressors. You might even find corps that will ally up for free just because they like the fights.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance 5290	Posted - 2014.04.22 23:26:00 - [12] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: In my neck of the woods, my alliance is one of the "big, bad, blobs"... until another "bigger, badder, blob" decides to come to town and completely outclass us... in which case we lay low and operate around them (because direct engagement is suicide) or give them intel on someone else they might want to chew on. And yet your advice to someone facing a much bigger, badder fish is to get into frigate fleets and engage them? It's not EVE that's gotten soft, it's your head. I really don't want to start a heated argument in New Citizens... but yes... I do advise just that; engage in faster and cheaper ships. I have and continue to do the same (I don't give advice I don't follow myself). It's called "guerrilla warfare." If you can't engage directly then frustrate your adversary's efforts and make engagement not worth their while. Rinse and repeat. There is more to winning a conflict than simply destroying ships. And yes... I remember my early years when I was a nubbin. No, it wasn't easy. Yes, a lot of us died. Yes, I got mad and was frustrated by such circumstances. And yes, a lot of us either learned from the experience or quit the game. I chose to learn and have enjoyed the game immensely since I picked up that mentality. And please don't compare the "bonus room" incident to this (though, to be fair, I have no idea what the OP's exact circumstances are). It was an "edge case" and appropriate action was taken. War-decs are part of the game by design (I agree with you that lower cost for smaller corps is a bit FUBAR and should be reversed). Conflict is part of the game by design. Just because some people are more sensitive than others about this and/or don't want to adapt it doesn't mean the game should be radically redesigned to cater to the lowest common denominator. /rant Anyways... OP... try some of the things I listed. You have nothing to lose by doing them. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Cara Forelli End-of-Line Sky Syndicate 330	Posted - 2014.04.22 23:50:00 - [13] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: - Another way is to organize one "big fight" for everyone and, win or lose, the dec will be dropped after that (my first corp did this when I was a nubbin... most of us died but it was good fun... and the dec was dropped as promised). - You can also ask them if they can provide hints or tips for fighting them. This is good advice. In my experience most wardec corps expect you to either dock up or log out and they will be excited to see you bring a real fight. It doesn't even need to be arranged (actually it's better if it's not). Normally if you give them some fun, they'll move on and mess with someone else. Who knows, you might even have some fun yourself. And +1 for EWAR. A couple griffins or blackbirds can make a huge difference when you're outmatched. Don't worry about winning. Just see if you can have some fun instead of spinning your ship. www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com New player with questions? Like to answer questions? Join my public channel in game:-áHouse Forelli
Cassandra Aurilien Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 68	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:05:00 - [14] - Quote Besides the advise in this thread & the other linked thread (which is good advise).... I'd try a log-in trap. I doubt they have their entire corp camping your station. (Most high sec war corps have several wars going on.) I wouldn't do it close to a trade hub, though. With luck, you might be able to get a few kills out of it at least. Even 210 to 1 would be better than 200 to 0.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 18100	Posted - 2014.04.23 02:18:00 - [15] - Quote All of the advice is good, opening the war up to allies will attract people who will help you fight your war for free. Don't expect them to fight it for you though, you'll have to assist, and you'll learn a lot by doing so. Most of the highsec PvPers, both wardeccers and allies, will happily give you good advice on fits and tactics, the more you know the more fun is had by everyone involved, including yourselves. It'll also make the next people that wardec you have to try harder to kill you. Never go full Ripard
Big Slacker Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.04.23 07:39:00 - [16] - Quote Agree with you all! Their is a lot of good advice and probably the only way for us to survive we need adapt and change. And thats just the problem. EvE is designed so PvPers have an edge. You don't need in any way todo any indy work as a PvPer. But as an indy player you need to pay others or PvP your self to protect the corp/alliance. I would love to be able to use our indy SP's in PvP... The only way we can do that is to take our progress money and spend it on some one else's progress. Not ours! We are few that lives in null already but to organize a null indy corp you need a lot, A LOT, more isk, players, time and organization then in high-sec. So what is a small indy corp lacking of?? And most of our players are pretty new and don't have the skills, ISK or will to go full life in null. And as a indy player you need to time op's, no good idea to mine alone in null. So we tend to sit at POS... or we can go and hunt rats... but then I will need to change from indy-player to a fighter-player. And most of us are not done with our skill training within indy skills.... High-sec is new player friendly, null is not. The main problem is not one or even four wardec's it's when we more or less are constantly at war due to that pvp corps like to ransom new/small defenseless corps. About 90% of the time we are at war. So back to start... it's much more easy to just bend over and leave indy/mining and go to fighting and pvp. I can skill up and earn ISK doing missions, then hit null asap to belt hunt and get some really good ISK's.. Then start to pvp and have fun, lose ships, blow up ships at the time I play "my" game and develop both my SP's and my play skills. That's far from what a player in a regular indy corp does... I'm bending over / Big Slacker
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 18104	Posted - 2014.04.23 08:55:00 - [17] - Quote Big Slacker wrote: And thats just the problem. EvE is designed so PvPers have an edge. You don't need in any way todo any indy work as a PvPer. But as an indy player you need to pay others or PvP your self to protect the corp/alliance. While I see your point, you're playing a primarily PvP game, pretty much everything affects other players, including industry. War decs are only one form of PvP, and they're trivial to avoid; close and reopen the corp to lose the dec and waste 50M of the deccers money, do it often enough and they'll probably go away and bug someone else. You can pay others to ship your stuff to market if you're war decced, I have a jump-clone in Jita to sell stuff that I use others to ship stuff to; other people have a dedicated market alt they contract stuff to for sale. Don't mine, especially AFK; if you must mine, do it groups with well tanked Procurers and combat drones, fit a couple of them as bait with neuts, tackle and drone damage amps. They're cheap, hard to kill and as a group can pack a sizable amount of DPS.* You'll lose the odd one but may get an expensive kill or two. *Soon to be a bigger punch, rumour has it they'll have enough bandwidth for medium drones in the near future, which means a bigger drone bay and thus more choice about how to use it Never go full Ripard
Sabriz Adoudel Mission BLITZ 2689	Posted - 2014.04.23 11:37:00 - [18] - Quote This post looks like an appeal for more wardecs. Want to stop predatory wardecs? Fight back with cheap ships. No one will keep fielding 500m ships to kill 3m frigates. Even if it comes to a 30 vs 15 fight, if you lose all 15 ships but take down one of theirs you have inflicted a humiliating defeat. Alpha thrashers are your friend. And go for the pods too. Set the universe on fire - then sell the survivors ash. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 1565	Posted - 2014.04.23 12:42:00 - [19] - Quote There's a very high probability that the people you're at war with are also at war with dozens of other corps. Look at their war history, find someone in there that is actually capable of killing them, act as bait in a trap.
Ahost Gceo Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy 58	Posted - 2014.04.23 14:28:00 - [20] - Quote Because I wouldn't just want to disappear off the game map by moving into a C1 wormhole with a high static. Do your indy stuff in POS's in the hole, drop it in a station that your static connects to, and use out of corp alts to move stuff to trade hubs to sell it. You would be amazed how many of these corps would stop looking for you because you aren't in the same set of stations to camp every single day. Ba-da-bing, ba-da-bang. It's a matter of you wanting to be creative enough to solve your own problems. Obstergo is currently recruiting wormhole combatants. US TZ emphasis. Visit our thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=334065&find=unread
Nolen Cadmar Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations Surely You're Joking 188	Posted - 2014.04.23 14:55:00 - [21] - Quote Best advice for players that can't PVP: *Don't*. Stay in station for a week and play other games. If you don't die, they get bored and leave you alone. You've lost 5 bil isk to them, which is what they want. Stop giving them what they want (killmails) and they'll stop hunting you. Nolen's Spreadsheet Guru Services: Need a spreadsheet created, maintained, updated or repaired? Learn more about my services at:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3865379
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 361	Posted - 2014.04.23 15:26:00 - [22] - Quote Nolen Cadmar wrote: Best advice for players that can't PVP: *Don't*. Stay in station for a week and play other games. If you don't die, they get bored and leave you alone. You've lost 5 bil isk to them, which is what they want. Stop giving them what they want (killmails) and they'll stop hunting you. Worst advice EVER! Fly cheap, fly with company, fly somewhere else, fly carefully, but above all fly. Don't allow fear to dictate your actions in a GAME. So what if someone has my name in one killmail or a hundred. Everyone sucks at everything at first, be willing to fail and you will succeed eventually. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook
Haedonism Bot Revolutionary Front 1124	Posted - 2014.04.23 15:27:00 - [23] - Quote Nolen Cadmar wrote: Best advice for players that can't PVP: *Don't*. Stay in station for a week and play other games. If you don't die, they get bored and leave you alone. You've lost 5 bil isk to them, which is what they want. Stop giving them what they want (killmails) and they'll stop hunting you. Terrible advice from this fellow. I recommend ignoring everything he has to say. There is something to the argument that you may not want to actually fight, and that is ok. Avoiding combat is usually a viable option in wardecs. There is a right and a wrong way to do that, though. Staying docked is the wrong way (unless you all legitimately have better things to be doing in the real world). The right way to evade your war targets is to make a tactical retreat to low, null, wormholes, etc and to steer clear of trade hubs on your in-corp characters. That way you can keep playing the game and have fun exploring a different area of space while denying kills to your enemies. The better option in many cases is to take wardecs as a welcome challenge to be faced. Get out there and fight and die. Convo your war targets and ask them nicely how they won each fight, how you can improve your fits, or whatever. You'll find that most of these so-called "bullies" are actually nice folks just playing their game, and they often actually like helping newbies, even their war targets. www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com Psychotic Monk for CSM9
Ahost Gceo Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy 58	Posted - 2014.04.23 15:41:00 - [24] - Quote Nolen Cadmar wrote: Best advice for players that can't PVP: *Don't. Stay in station for a week and play other games. If you don't die, they get bored and leave you alone. You've lost 5 bil isk to them, which is what they want. Stop giving them what they want (killmails) and they'll stop hunting you. Because some people actually want to play EVE instead of treating it like something they just have to get by/ tolerate. Obstergo is currently recruiting wormhole combatants. US TZ emphasis.* Visit our thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=334065&find=unread
Nalelmir Ahashion Omegon 42nd Core 287	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:22:00 - [25] - Quote Another free advice... they try to gank you and declare wardec each week? migrate into FW lowsec and get agreement with one of the local corps there. I used to do FW for week or so and each neutral in system got a nice welcome party. "What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what." --áAaron Birch
Ralph King-Griffin Var Foundation inc. 911	Posted - 2014.04.23 17:10:00 - [26] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: 3. "When life gives you lemons..." shah speaks the truth, listen to him. Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼ -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á The Best Quote EVER Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼a«£¦¬¦P¦¬a«£Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼Gû¼
Bael Malefic Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 82	Posted - 2014.04.23 17:13:00 - [27] - Quote You have many choices. Best advice I can possibly give would be: Make one. I note that your chosen play style will eventually lead you into sovereign nullsec; it's really the only place to do full-bore industry with some modicum of security and make ISK doing it. Yes, I know, some wormhole ninjamaster will disagree but it will be months or years before you have the skills and resources to think seriously about wormhole life. Ample advice has been given on how to avoid wardecs (trivially easy especially in a small corp). Perhaps the easiest in the circumstance described: Disband the corp, form a new corp. Wardec dismissed. Rinse, repeat. You can try to wait it out in station but this is beyond boring, as has been rightly identified. You can fight (it's fun!) but you will lose, a lot, until you have climbed a brutally steep learning curve. Unless you become good at PVP, you will usually lose. Perhaps you and your corpies could join an established newbie friendly corp for a while. EVE Uni is certainly one example. Learn the ropes a bit, refine your strategies and skills. For what it's worth, I was in the same boat. Formed a corp straight away, got AWOXed in first week, got wardecced in the second. Learned. Along the way have made some genuine friends and found a place in EVE I am content with. Of course I did go down the PVP road and now spend most of my time roaming NPC null looking for targets...
Unezka Turigahl Det Som Engang Var 191	Posted - 2014.04.23 18:00:00 - [28] - Quote Do you guys need to be in a single corp? You could all make your own corps, then open up a private chat channel for you all to communicate in. Then you can all play together in concert, but not be shut down by wardecs. You also won't have to deal with awoxers. It will only be a problem if a lot of you are using a POS to research and build. If you're mostly miners, then this is the way to go. I suppose you could have all of your POS dudes in one corp with the POS, and miners in a bunch of 1-2 man corps. POS dudes can make alts for mining and do the same. Then only the POS corp is vulnerable to wardecs, and since all they do is research and build... they just sit in station all the time anyway. No problemo. Ideally all the POS dudes can man 5 POS guns each too, in case the wardecers decide to hit the POS. If somehow the wardecers look like they'll actually break your POS, just give the password to a neutral alt and have it haul out any goodies you have stored at the POS.
Sykaotic Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2014.04.23 18:13:00 - [29] - Quote Nikolai Lachance wrote: Take that ransom isk and offer it to a merc corp to join you as an ally in the war and take the fight to the aggressors. You might even find corps that will ally up for free just because they like the fights. That wont work. I hired 5 high end merc corps to take care of..... 1 guy who was extremely active in hi sec (that war decced me). After about 10 days, 1 of them actually showed up and played hell getting one kill. Most advice on the forums is false and will only cost you more money with 0 positive results. The reality is, you need to drop corp, move, make a new corp or just drop corp. Now the second one is not 100% as they may very well still focus on you for lols. You have to understand that unlike years ago in Eve, the mindset today is to kill all miners, missioners, indy toons in hi sec and to farm tears from newer players. Mercs for the most part are just another scam. You already know what the answer is..... and it sucks, but that is the current mindset of Eve online. GL
Bael Malefic Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 82	Posted - 2014.04.23 18:27:00 - [30] - Quote Sykaotic wrote: Nikolai Lachance wrote: Take that ransom isk and offer it to a merc corp to join you as an ally in the war and take the fight to the aggressors. You might even find corps that will ally up for free just because they like the fights. That wont work. I hired 5 high end merc corps to take care of..... 1 guy who was extremely active in hi sec (that war decced me). After about 10 days, 1 of them actually showed up and played hell getting one kill. Most advice on the forums is false and will only cost you more money with 0 positive results. The reality is, you need to drop corp, move, make a new corp or just drop corp. Now the second one is not 100% as they may very well still focus on you for lols. You have to understand that unlike years ago in Eve, the mindset today is to kill all miners, missioners, indy toons in hi sec and to farm tears from newer players. Mercs for the most part are just another scam. You already know what the answer is..... and it sucks, but that is the current mindset of Eve online. GL Sad but, based on observation, largely true.
Gabriel Z Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 21	Posted - 2014.04.23 19:33:00 - [31] - Quote I don't understand why people are so attached to corp and alliance names. For everything but corp/alliance POS use, being in a corp or alliance gets you nothing. NOTHING. There isn't anything you can't do as a group with no name (except share a POS). So why fall into this again and again? Just leave the alliance and work outside it. edit: don't use a merc corp. many of them are just fronts for the same people wardeccing you.
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 364	Posted - 2014.04.23 21:31:00 - [32] - Quote Gabriel Z wrote: I don't understand why people are so attached to corp and alliance names. For everything but corp/alliance POS use, being in a corp or alliance gets you nothing. NOTHING. There isn't anything you can't do as a group with no name (except share a POS). So why fall into this again and again? Just leave the alliance and work outside it. I created this corp to encourage people to war dec me. Since my main income is from inter-region trading, I thought having people wardecing me would add some excitement to my normal trading activity. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out well so far. Here I am, a corp with one member and an annoying controversial name, surely someone would feel this overpowering need to blast my ships out from under me. Look at NQ&A someone is always complaining about being the horrors of being deced by bigger more powerful players, but no. Look at my killboard. Nada. Sigh. I guess I could start decing others. Or join FW. :( I just don't want to get in too over my head, like decing EveUni or Kane Wait, Kane is in a new corp too....and...and... Kane got a new haircut too? That's going TOO FAR! Ahh well, I need to rebuilt my fleet of cheap ships for the lols. Someone needs to pod me. It has been so long since I've been podded, taking shortcuts through LS actually makes me a little nervous, although I still do it anyway since the last time someone locked me at a gate was ...I can't even remember. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook
Gabriel Z Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 21	Posted - 2014.04.23 21:42:00 - [33] - Quote Iria Ahrens wrote: Gabriel Z wrote: I don't understand why people are so attached to corp and alliance names. For everything but corp/alliance POS use, being in a corp or alliance gets you nothing. NOTHING. There isn't anything you can't do as a group with no name (except share a POS). So why fall into this again and again? Just leave the alliance and work outside it. I created this corp to encourage people to war dec me. Since my main income is from inter-region trading, I thought having people wardecing me would add some excitement to my normal trading activity. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out well so far. Here I am, a corp with one member and an annoying controversial name, surely someone would feel this overpowering need to blast my ships out from under me. Look at NQ&A someone is always complaining about being the horrors of being deced by bigger more powerful players, but no. Look at my killboard. Nada. Sigh. I guess I could start decing others. Or join FW. :( I just don't want to get in too over my head, like decing EveUni or Kane Wait, Kane is in a new corp too....and...and... Kane got a new haircut too? That's going TOO FAR! Ahh well, I need to rebuilt my fleet of cheap ships for the lols. Someone needs to pod me. It has been so long since I've been podded, taking shortcuts through LS actually makes me a little nervous, although I still do it anyway since the last time someone locked me at a gate was ...I can't even remember. I recommend moving to a hisec Caldari ice system and sitting in a retriever. I bet you're decced by within the hour by CODE.
Solecist Project Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 777	Posted - 2014.04.23 21:43:00 - [34] - Quote Iria Ahrens wrote: Gabriel Z wrote: I don't understand why people are so attached to corp and alliance names. For everything but corp/alliance POS use, being in a corp or alliance gets you nothing. NOTHING. There isn't anything you can't do as a group with no name (except share a POS). So why fall into this again and again? Just leave the alliance and work outside it. I created this corp to encourage people to war dec me. Since my main income is from inter-region trading, I thought having people wardecing me would add some excitement to my normal trading activity. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out well so far. Here I am, a corp with one member and an annoying controversial name, surely someone would feel this overpowering need to blast my ships out from under me. Look at NQ&A someone is always complaining about being the horrors of being deced by bigger more powerful players, but no. Look at my killboard. Nada. Sigh. I guess I could start decing others. Or join FW. :( I just don't want to get in too over my head, like decing EveUni or Kane Wait, Kane is in a new corp too....and...and... Kane got a new haircut too? That's going TOO FAR! Ahh well, I need to rebuilt my fleet of cheap ships for the lols. Someone needs to pod me. It has been so long since I've been podded, taking shortcuts through LS actually makes me a little nervous, although I still do it anyway since the last time someone locked me at a gate was ...I can't even remember. You could, like, you know, find a few friends, and, you know, like, in the spirit of your corp, you KNOW!, disco the THE LIVING HELL out of RvB ... ... you know. :) If you don't mind going -10, you know. :) I'd even skill for an amarrian bs for that... because size matters. Sometimes. :) ################################
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 365	Posted - 2014.04.23 21:50:00 - [35] - Quote I've been researching war dec mechanics in order to declare a war, once I figure out who to declare on. It says wars end when the aggressor doesn't pay, or when the "victim" surrenders. Am I missing something? People complain about spending weeks in station, when all the CEO needs to do is surrender? Are all these newbie complaints about CEO pride. Seriously, if you aren't willing to fight back, surrender and move on. No need to disband corp and all that other stuff. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook
Cannibal Kane The Kane Inquisition 3713	Posted - 2014.04.23 22:25:00 - [36] - Quote Iria Ahrens wrote: I've been researching war dec mechanics in order to declare a war, once I figure out who to declare on. It says wars end when the aggressor doesn't pay, or when the "victim" surrenders. Am I missing something? People complain about spending weeks in station, when all the CEO needs to do is surrender? Are all these newbie complaints about CEO pride. Seriously, if you aren't willing to fight back, surrender and move on. No need to disband corp and all that other stuff. In order to surrender, the aggressor needs to accept it as well. I deny all surrender request that does not increase my wallet. And nobody cares about your corp since it is only 1 person. I got more reason to get wardecced then most but I don't. Who wants to spend isk on a 1 man corp? "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS
Disastro Wrecking Shots Black Legion. 154	Posted - 2014.04.24 00:31:00 - [37] - Quote Big Slacker wrote: My main char is part of a small indy corp and alliance. We do like many other small indy corps, sitt in stations or play on our alts. Due to that we are at war agin... this time it's one corp and one alliance with over 300 pvp pilots killing all our pilots. Or I should say the once that are still in the corp, many has already left. The score is about 5Bil ISK vs 0 ISK, over 200 ships vs 0 ships. Our "PVP-brigade" is 10 low SP pvp-pilots flying T1's friggs with very little experience of PvP. They are +40 ,both in SP's and experience, skilled T2 and T3 PVPers. And they are really skilled and organized. So we are, like many others a defenseless indy corp at war or I should say at ransom-war agin... it's probably the 5th since January. They want our ISK's ... if we pay we got 10 more Ransom-corps lining-up to take even more ISK's from us. And when ever they want mor ISKs that just call us agin... and agin and agin.. It just sucks that's EvE have turned it to a bully-game... It's not much to say, the game mechanics is set by the developers. It's just to re-roll "Ransom-pilot", play in NPC corp or don't post next check to CCP. It's sucks because I liked to play indy char.... Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively impose domination over others. Two points i would like to make in response to this: 1. Giving up 5 bil in losses in a high sec war dec is one reason that you are getting war decced again and again. Losing alot brings more griefers which brings more war decs and so on. Wars that result in zero kills tend to bore the griefers and they wont want to repeat it by war decking you again. 2. Paying ransoms in high sec wars get you more war decs as well. I mean why not. If you are going to pay them to leave you alone then why not keep war decking you with different corps til you stop? Eve has always been a PVP game. It has always been a game of griefers griefing the weak. That is what high sec PVP is about. That is what low sec pvp is about. That is what null sec pvp is about. Truly even fights in this game are rare because everyone wants to win. And if everyone wants to win they are not really looking to have even fights. They are looking only to have fights where they have the advantage. Certainly there are occasionally fights which turn out pretty even. I can assure you, however, that these generally occur more by accident than by design. Intel on what the opponent has ready to use is not always perfect or complete. Mistakes are made. If you are always expecting a fair fight then you better think again. That doesnt even happen in real world combat does it?
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 365	Posted - 2014.04.24 02:52:00 - [38] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Iria Ahrens wrote: I've been researching war dec mechanics in order to declare a war, once I figure out who to declare on. It says wars end when the aggressor doesn't pay, or when the "victim" surrenders. Am I missing something? People complain about spending weeks in station, when all the CEO needs to do is surrender? Are all these newbie complaints about CEO pride. Seriously, if you aren't willing to fight back, surrender and move on. No need to disband corp and all that other stuff. In order to surrender, the aggressor needs to accept it as well. I deny all surrender request that does not increase my wallet. And nobody cares about your corp since it is only 1 person. I got more reason to get wardecced then most but I don't. Who wants to spend isk on a 1 man corp? Cool, thanks. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 5225	Posted - 2014.04.24 03:46:00 - [39] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Mara Rinn wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: In my neck of the woods, my alliance is one of the "big, bad, blobs"... until another "bigger, badder, blob" decides to come to town and completely outclass us... in which case we lay low and operate around them (because direct engagement is suicide) or give them intel on someone else they might want to chew on. And yet your advice to someone facing a much bigger, badder fish is to get into frigate fleets and engage them? It's not EVE that's gotten soft, it's your head. I really don't want to start a heated argument in New Citizens... but yes... I do advise just that; engage in faster and cheaper ships. I have and continue to do the same (I don't give advice I don't follow myself). It's called "guerrilla warfare." If you can't engage directly then frustrate your adversary's efforts and make engagement not worth their while. Rinse and repeat. I guess we've all failed the OP since one of the most important pieces of advice is: learn who your enemy is. If your enemy is a 200-strong corporation that always has 200 people online flying T3s in fleets of 20, you're out of options. If your enemy is a 200-strong corporation who usually has 1-5 people with their 50 alts in the same corp for convenience, you have a chance to engage in guerrilla warfare. How do you gather intel? One option is to use alts in rookie ships (no SP required), just set the wardeccing corp/alliance to red, and look for any of them. Record who you saw and when. Add them to watch lists, keep tabs on who logs in when and who logs out when. Where do they tend to hang out? Do they have roaming gangs, or do they specialise in station-camping people in Dodixie? What ships do they fly? How are they usually fit? Learn to use a passive targeted and ship scanner on your corp mates, then go out and scan ships. There will be record-keeping involved, but the discussions you can have when even just theory-crafting counters to the enemy's ships and fittings can be educational. In some cases, the activity of scouting out the enemy is as much fun as anything else you might end up doing. The once the wardec is over, try A vs B team fights within your own corp. Join Agony PvP classes, and learn to PvP. Go out on their roams. Then the next time you get wardecced you'll be far better educated as to what your own capabilities are, and how to determine the enemy's capabilities. Greygal also has a "Redemption Roams" mailing list which I recommend you look into. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Luwc Biohazard. WINMATAR. 118	Posted - 2014.04.24 06:15:00 - [40] - Quote Big Slacker wrote: My main char is part of a small indy corp and alliance. We do like many other small indy corps, sitt in stations or play on our alts. Due to that we are at war agin... this time it's one corp and one alliance with over 300 pvp pilots killing all our pilots. Or I should say the once that are still in the corp, many has already left. The score is about 5Bil ISK vs 0 ISK, over 200 ships vs 0 ships. Our "PVP-brigade" is 10 low SP pvp-pilots flying T1's friggs with very little experience of PvP. They are +40 ,both in SP's and experience, skilled T2 and T3 PVPers. And they are really skilled and organized. So we are, like many others a defenseless indy corp at war or I should say at ransom-war agin... it's probably the 5th since January. They want our ISK's ... if we pay we got 10 more Ransom-corps lining-up to take even more ISK's from us. And when ever they want mor ISKs that just call us agin... and agin and agin.. Why the * do you keep doing it wrong. Read this closely mr.carebear. - You wrote a post, with a good reason indeed. and If you would have sticked with what is quoted above. Chances are you would have gotten help. But since... as many other people in your position. You blamed your lack PVP skills and beeing in an obv. **** alliance on the Game mechanics. Now everybody and their mother will come here to farm your tears instead of actually considering helping you out. a) Your own fault for beeing in a pure Indy corp. A proper working alliance needs to complement itsself with both PVP and Industry. You cant expect to happily mine yourself through asteriods without people engaging you. Thats EVE... and its awesome as it is. b) Think about what would happen if every carebear corp out there could "my little pony style" mine ittself through all that tasty concord protected Veldspar in Empire space. Eve would be more unbalanced and inflated than ever. c) Unless your leadership put all their money in their own pockets. Your alliance should be able to pay for mercs to keep the wardeccers busy (especially considering what you have lost in isk already). You might not be able to hire good enough people to completly fight them off. especially since you stated that your hostiles are very professional. But you get a chance to harass them back. I.e. instead of wasting the ISK on stupid ship losses you could have invested it better. d) My final point as usual. Please stop blaming your own lack of intelligence on other people or the game mechanics. If you want some "super happy we are all friends" game. Might consider looking for something else than eve. http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Cameron Zero Red Federation 327	Posted - 2014.04.24 13:11:00 - [41] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: you KNOW!, disco the THE LIVING HELL out of RvB ... Please do. Those people need the excitement. ;P "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GÇª"
Bastion Arzi Failed Diplomacy Failed-Diplomacy 100	Posted - 2014.04.24 13:33:00 - [42] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: In order to surrender, the aggressor needs to accept it as well. I deny all surrender request that does not increase my wallet. And nobody cares about your corp since it is only 1 person. I got more reason to get wardecced then most but I don't. Who wants to spend isk on a 1 man corp? changed ur hair CK?
Bael Malefic Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 88	Posted - 2014.04.24 14:15:00 - [43] - Quote Luwc wrote: Read this closely mr.carebear. - You wrote a post, with a good reason indeed. and If you would have sticked with what is quoted above. Chances are you would have gotten help. But since... as many other people in your position. You blamed your lack PVP skills and beeing in an obv. ****** alliance on the Game mechanics. Now everybody and their mother will come here to farm your tears instead of actually considering helping you out. a) Your own fault for beeing in a pure Indy corp. A proper working alliance needs to complement itsself with both PVP and Industry. You cant expect to happily mine yourself through asteriods without people engaging you. Thats EVE... and its awesome as it is. b) Think about what would happen if every carebear corp out there could "my little pony style" mine ittself through all that tasty concord protected Veldspar in Empire space. Eve would be more unbalanced and inflated than ever. c) Unless your leadership put all their money in their own pockets. Your alliance should be able to pay for mercs to keep the wardeccers busy (especially considering what you have lost in isk already). You might not be able to hire good enough people to completly fight them off. especially since you stated that your hostiles are very professional. But you get a chance to harass them back. I.e. instead of wasting the ISK on stupid ship losses you could have invested it better. d) My final point as usual. Please stop blaming your own lack of intelligence on other people or the game mechanics. If you want some "super happy we are all friends" game. Might consider looking for something else than eve. tl/dr: "You're a carebear, your alliance sucks, you deserve to be punished for asking questions I think are stupid, you're an idiot, you're playing the wrong game" This does not constitute constructive criticism. You may want to return to GD, posthaste. OP, I hope you've gotten some ideas out of this thread that help you learn, adapt and enjoy. Fly fun!

ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1193	Posted - 2014.04.24 15:31:00 - [44] - Quote I have removed a rule breaking post and those quoting it. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil! The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited. Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated. That said, a lot of good advice has been given by posters above. Try different tactics, find out what works for you and your corporation. But whatever way you choose OP, good luck and fly safe! ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie Panhandle Industries Order of the Exalted 494	Posted - 2014.04.24 17:10:00 - [45] - Quote Gabriel Z wrote: Iria Ahrens wrote: Gabriel Z wrote: I don't understand why people are so attached to corp and alliance names. For everything but corp/alliance POS use, being in a corp or alliance gets you nothing. NOTHING. There isn't anything you can't do as a group with no name (except share a POS). So why fall into this again and again? Just leave the alliance and work outside it. I created this corp to encourage people to war dec me. Since my main income is from inter-region trading, I thought having people wardecing me would add some excitement to my normal trading activity. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out well so far. Here I am, a corp with one member and an annoying controversial name, surely someone would feel this overpowering need to blast my ships out from under me. Look at NQ&A someone is always complaining about being the horrors of being deced by bigger more powerful players, but no. Look at my killboard. Nada. Sigh. I guess I could start decing others. Or join FW. :( I just don't want to get in too over my head, like decing EveUni or Kane Wait, Kane is in a new corp too....and...and... Kane got a new haircut too? That's going TOO FAR! Ahh well, I need to rebuilt my fleet of cheap ships for the lols. Someone needs to pod me. It has been so long since I've been podded, taking shortcuts through LS actually makes me a little nervous, although I still do it anyway since the last time someone locked me at a gate was ...I can't even remember. I recommend moving to a hisec Caldari ice system and sitting in a retriever. I bet you're decced by within the hour by CODE. Not sure if CODE. is still deccing. Medi left and Black Skull hasn't been online much. They were the two that were most involved in decs. Most of CODE. has moved to one corp for freighter and orca ganking from what I can tell. OP. Contact me ingame. I'm terrible at pvp but I might be able to help you guys out a bit with relocating and avoiding the worst parts of the war, and if your agressors are flying bling ships I might be able to scrounge up some allies for a fight. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á
Cyniac Twilight Star Rangers 186	Posted - 2014.04.24 18:09:00 - [46] - Quote First - been there done that. In the first few months of EVE ended up in a number of wars in a smallish indie oriented corp. There are a number of things which you are going to need to survive and it's important that you get them, some have been mentioned some have not. 1) Leadership & Goals. About the worst thing that can happen to an indie corp in a situation like yours is the "every man to himself" situation. I'm surprised that this has not yet been brought up but it's actually not something uncommon for young indie corps to fall apart under continual wardecs without them. Given that you guys are still around after multiple wardecs and significant losses, I take it that you have some coherence to keep going. 2) Intel - Mara was spot on with this. You need to know who you are fighting. What are their assets, how are they working, how big their fleets, where are they going what are their habits, their bases, who are their enemies and perhaps most important of all why did they consider you a target in the first place. There are many ways to collect intel but I cannot put enough emphasis on how important this is. Once you know your enemy you will know what your real options are. Make sure to keep an updated list of enemy pilots! 3) Know your friends. Friends in EVE may be fickle, but they can be essential, both as sources of intel and at times as surprising resource in other ways to. Prepare for war, make friends (but be careful - trust no one). Wardecs are kinda nice because they help to see who will really stand with you guys. Which leads to... The Plan. You need to plan for contingencies and wardecs is one of the bigger one which little industrial corps need to deal with. The posters above have identified the two viable courses of action: 1) Avoid the war 2) Fight the war There are a few strategies to this, which will depend on the skills, dedication and cohesion of your pilots. Avoiding wardecs: Stay docked up. Contrary to what some say this is actually very effective at stopping wardecs. There are two main problems though - morale will go down the gutter (you will lose members). Additionally it does nothing to stop future wardecs. If this is the only option take it, but it's a crappy option. Drop corp. The oldest trick in the game. Depending on your operations this may be more or less complex. If you have no anchored assets in space, limited assets in space and few trade connections/partners this could be simple. If you need to take down poses, re-build PI gantries, move millions of m3 of junk from existing corp offices and re-negotiate a set of alliances this can be a major PITA. Fly differently Stop being predictable. Disperse out, explore, go into a wormhole (you don't need nearly as many skills for this as people seem to think) head out to lowsec for a while (it's probably not worse than highsec during these wardecs, and you will learn a lot more in lowsec) - whatever. Sometimes avoiding wardecs is as simple as moving 10 jumps to somewhere else, while at other times you will be hunted to the end of the universe and back (I enjoy it when people come hunt me... but hey that's just me). This can also be tough and you will probably still lost pilots. Alternatively - you fight. To do this you need to pick a general strategy, and try to fight. Get friends involved if you can - a couple of PVP pilots made all the difference in one of our earlier wars not because they could fight off the attackers but because they gave the rest of us a few tips as to how not completely fail and led us into some fights. We didn't win much but we learned. (This is how bears start to grow baby teeth). Mercs - my experience with mercs is, contrary to that of some of the other posters, overwhelmingly positive. But you need to know your mercs, I've only ever hired out people whom I've known from long before the wars started and in addition to that we paid for results - i.e. a relatively small up front fee to get things going but prize money for enemy ships destroyed. Just make sure you agree ahead of time how much you are willing to spend, some folks can be surprisingly diligent in killing other pilots. It's also a great bonus if you can get some pilots to fly with the mercs to learn and help (not everyone will allow this - as always ask nicely). What's really important though is that you deny the griefers what they want - i.e. limit the number of kills they get and make sure it's no fun for them. Like that they will move on to other targets. I would not advise to pay ransoms... bad idea generally. Ideally find a way to have fun from this - if you can't you will fall apart, because wardecs will happen again.
Big Slacker Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2014.05.04 20:07:00 - [47] - Quote One day after last war ended we got a new wardec. Agin from a corp/alliance that try to ransom us. CCP don't want small indy corp in the game... and still they are working like hell to get more ppl to do indy. Well just a hint CCP, ask how many customers dropping out or leaving indy due to "Bully- EvE" mechanics.... Time to cancel the account
Jill Chastot Oath of the Forsaken Sanguis Ignis Prosperitum 282	Posted - 2014.05.04 20:19:00 - [48] - Quote Big Slacker wrote: My main char is part of a small indy corp and alliance. We do like many other small indy corps, sitt in stations or play on our alts. Due to that we are at war agin... this time it's one corp and one alliance with over 300 pvp pilots killing all our pilots. Or I should say the once that are still in the corp, many has already left. The score is about 5Bil ISK vs 0 ISK, over 200 ships vs 0 ships. Our "PVP-brigade" is 10 low SP pvp-pilots flying T1's friggs with very little experience of PvP. They are +40 ,both in SP's and experience, skilled T2 and T3 PVPers. And they are really skilled and organized. So we are, like many others a defenseless indy corp at war or I should say at ransom-war agin... it's probably the 5th since January. They want our ISK's ... if we pay we got 10 more Ransom-corps lining-up to take even more ISK's from us. And when ever they want mor ISKs that just call us agin... and agin and agin.. It just sucks that's EvE have turned it to a bully-game... It's not much to say, the game mechanics is set by the developers. It's just to re-roll "Ransom-pilot", play in NPC corp or don't post next check to CCP. It's sucks because I liked to play indy char.... Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate, or aggressively impose domination over others. Do indy characters really need to leave station? To me it comes down to the whole oppertunity cost of "mining" Although the traditional way of gathering resources exists, as of current it's really not the best way to go about it. Rat in an afktar or run lvl 4's a bit, isk => minerals => (stuff) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Big Slacker Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2014.05.04 20:32:00 - [49] - Quote Jill Chastot wrote: Although the traditional way of gathering resources exists, as of current it's really not the best way to go about it. Rat in an afktar or run lvl 4's a bit, isk => minerals => (stuff) Well that's not fun enough to pay for!
Silvetica Dian Manson Family Advent of Fate 1011	Posted - 2014.05.04 20:46:00 - [50] - Quote don't fly expensive ships under a war dec. don't do pve under a war dec unless you go to an out of the way place. i prefered (when i lived in high sec) doing exploration during war decs esp finding wh's or relic/data. I went on trips to low and day tripped in wormholes. sometimes i would get involved in fighting back and that was good. You need neutral scouts to check where they are and how many and then let a bait tanked ship fall into their trap and then spring your trap. If they are present in numbers just stay docked or cloaked until they go. Do NOT pay ransoms to make them leave. Do NOT give them expensive kills. You will just get more sharks if you put blood like that in the water. If they get no nice kills and no ransom they will move onto greener pastures. Also they won't tell their friends to dec you next week. I live in null now and my alliance is fighting xxdeath + pets (the whole of geminate) they outnumber us 10 to 1 and drop more caps / BS onto tower fights than we can get people in fleet. (often 3 or 4 to 1) we enjoy the fights and usually win. It is doable to fight larger numbers but it needs experiance. I actually ended up in null because of a wardec. I was frustrated no one would fight and so i got my scout alt to join a pvp training corp. That scout is this char and is now my main. I couldn't go back to being a carebear now even though i have an indy alt that funds my pvp. Good luck and mot of all find a way to have fun even in a war dec. If you have fun even if you kill nothing then you have already won. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Big Slacker Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2014.05.05 12:01:00 - [51] - Quote Silvetica Dian wrote: don't fly expensive ships under a war dec. don't do pve under a war dec unless you go to an out of the way place. i prefered (when i lived in high sec) doing exploration during war decs esp finding wh's or relic/data. I went on trips to low and day tripped in wormholes. sometimes i would get involved in fighting back and that was good. You need neutral scouts to check where they are and how many and then let a bait tanked ship fall into their trap and then spring your trap. If they are present in numbers just stay docked or cloaked until they go. Do NOT pay ransoms to make them leave. Do NOT give them expensive kills. You will just get more sharks if you put blood like that in the water. If they get no nice kills and no ransom they will move onto greener pastures. Also they won't tell their friends to dec you next week. I live in null now and my alliance is fighting xxdeath + pets (the whole of geminate) they outnumber us 10 to 1 and drop more caps / BS onto tower fights than we can get people in fleet. (often 3 or 4 to 1) we enjoy the fights and usually win. It is doable to fight larger numbers but it needs experiance. I actually ended up in null because of a wardec. I was frustrated no one would fight and so i got my scout alt to join a pvp training corp. That scout is this char and is now my main. I couldn't go back to being a carebear now even though i have an indy alt that funds my pvp. Good luck and mot of all find a way to have fun even in a war dec. If you have fun even if you kill nothing then you have already won. I also live 100% in null and I think it sucks big time. But thats of no interest at all. High sec is today owned by Ransom and Bully corps/alliances and we can't be there because they control EvE. Thats the problem. Longtime ago a mercc corp had in their bio "We will win EvE". And they are doing that, they won over me. I gave up and canceled my subscription. GG merc and bully's you won.
Velicitia Emergent Avionics 2161	Posted - 2014.05.05 14:12:00 - [52] - Quote Big Slacker wrote: I also live 100% in null and I think it sucks big time. But thats of no interest at all. High sec is today owned by Ransom and Bully corps/alliances and we can't be there because they control EvE. Thats the problem. Longtime ago a mercc corp had in their bio "We will win EvE". And they are doing that, they won over me. I gave up and canceled my subscription. GG merc and bully's you won. Wait, you live 100% of the time in null, and are worried about hisec wardecs?! You're kinda going about things backwards here, boss ... I mean, nullsec >>>>> hisec... One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Cara Forelli End-of-Line Sky Syndicate 339	Posted - 2014.05.05 15:57:00 - [53] - Quote Big Slacker wrote: Longtime ago a mercc corp had in their bio "We will win EvE". And they are doing that, they won over me. I gave up and canceled my subscription. GG merc and bully's you won. I kind of picture the OP sitting in the middle of a busy playground trying to set up dominoes. www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com New player with questions? Like to answer questions? Join my public channel in game:-áHouse Forelli
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 381	Posted - 2014.05.05 16:06:00 - [54] - Quote Velicitia wrote: Big Slacker wrote: I also live 100% in null and I think it sucks big time. But thats of no interest at all. High sec is today owned by Ransom and Bully corps/alliances and we can't be there because they control EvE. Thats the problem. Longtime ago a mercc corp had in their bio "We will win EvE". And they are doing that, they won over me. I gave up and canceled my subscription. GG merc and bully's you won. Wait, you live 100% of the time in null, and are worried about hisec wardecs?! You're kinda going about things backwards here, boss ... I mean, nullsec >>>>> hisec... Somehow this just kept posting empty posts, I give up not rewriting it again. I just want to get a plex as fast as i can so i dont have to worry about resubbing, 15 dollars is Cat litter and Food for my cat, or 2 Grams of Weed, i'd rather spend it on that then on this game--Rogue Mime
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 381	Posted - 2014.05.05 16:08:00 - [55] - Quote double post I just want to get a plex as fast as i can so i dont have to worry about resubbing, 15 dollars is Cat litter and Food for my cat, or 2 Grams of Weed, i'd rather spend it on that then on this game--Rogue Mime
Alliria Seedspawn nul-li-fy The Marmite Collective 75	Posted - 2014.05.06 17:20:00 - [56] - Quote Big Slacker wrote: The score is about 5Bil ISK vs 0 ISK, over 200 ships vs 0 ships. There's your problem, and that's why they keep coming back. It's like you're putting out a huge saucer of milk for the stray cats in the neighborhood. They are getting what they want, so they are going to keep coming back. Use alts for hauling or mining. Starve the cats, and they'll go away. War dec's are not free.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 18222	Posted - 2014.05.06 19:28:00 - [57] - Quote Big Slacker wrote: One day after last war ended we got a new wardec. Agin from a corp/alliance that try to ransom us. CCP don't want small indy corp in the game... and still they are working like hell to get more ppl to do indy. Well just a hint CCP, ask how many customers dropping out or leaving indy due to "Bully- EvE" mechanics.... Time to cancel the account Well if you will insist on attracting the attention of wardeccers with threads like this.... Never go full Ripard
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 938	Posted - 2014.05.06 20:20:00 - [58] - Quote I am really fatigued (truly) at these constant r-tard posts like the OP's who without any real understanding on the responsibility of forming a corporation in the first place, fail to acknowledge their duty as corp leadership to protect their members... That means if you aren't going to field your own PVP toons, then at least teach your guys how to avoid dying to wardeccers, which actually isn't that hard to do... Then there are mercs, which any Indy CEO with half a F#()$ing brain can hire to deal with the aggressors and shut down the decs... Failing that, you can always have 10 similar-named corps and just rotate players through them to shed wardecs, because the mechanic is broken and allows ducking by dropping corp. i.e. If 'MyCorp' is decced, just have all your guys jump into 'MyCorp2'. If 'MyCorp2' gets decced, move to 'MyCorp3'... etc etc etc In short... If you can't learn how to protect your corp and your members, you shouldn't be running a corp in the first place, and rightly so ransomed and blasted from the earth..er...EvE landscape. That is all. F Would you like to know more?
Obunagawe 356	Posted - 2014.05.06 20:27:00 - [59] - Quote Nolen Cadmar wrote: Best advice for players that can't PVP: *Don't*. Stay in station for a week and play other games. If you don't die, they get bored and leave you alone. You've lost 5 bil isk to them, which is what they want. Stop giving them what they want (killmails) and they'll stop hunting you. This is the correct (but selfish) path to take. Anyone who claims otherwise has the good of the game in mind rather than immediate personal gain (for the OP).

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