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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.09.21 19:32:00 -
[1]
TOMB I have been using the 425 mm rails before and after that patch alot. There is definately something wrong with them since the patch as far as amount of damage at different ranges.
The closer I get to a object or ship the LESS damage it does?!?!?
How does that make any sense what so ever? I am talking about using same set up as before patch and shooting CARGO CONTAINERS that have no types of agility bonus. When I get closer the average damage they do actually DECREASES. In fact the rate of decrease is so large that when I get to within 20 km I am only doing about 30 to 40 damage per shot avg while at 45km I avg 100 to 130 per shot (this is with no damage mods and running 2 tracking enhancer I's and one Tracking Computer I.)
TOMB can you PLEASE fix this if this is not right. If it is then can you PLEASE explain why when I get closer I do less damage when I hit. I can understand missing more shots but doing LESS damage makes no sense.
Thank You for your answer in advance TOMB 
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.09.21 20:19:00 -
[2]
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SavX
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Posted - 2003.09.21 21:34:00 -
[3]
Don't Kill The Corp.. Kill the Suppliers. |
Valeria
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Posted - 2003.09.21 21:40:00 -
[4]
My 425's is working fine.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Roba
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Posted - 2003.09.22 06:20:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Roba on 22/09/2003 06:21:11
Wow you a n00b or something. Are not really used to combat?
Ok that 425 of your is working fine. the 425mm is a longer range weapon. With rails if you get to close they will nto do much dmg. Same goes for to far. The reason you are getting those nice hits at 45km is because you have those tracking combats and crap equiped. They are boosting your opt range.
If you want to hit something with good dmg at 20km or less you need to look into large blasters. 425 is a rail. Not ment for close range.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.09.22 06:29:00 -
[6]
Roba, why are you calling people n00b when you're acting like one yourself?
At least on chaos, I hit equally good with 250mm gauss guns between ranges 300m-28km, so I don't see why 425's would get lower damage hits at closer range, especially not when tracking is obviously not the problem.
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Krashtest
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Posted - 2003.09.22 10:44:00 -
[7]
The 250 mm is a medium weapon , thus better at shorter ranges , the 425 is a battleship weapon , not designed to hit at under 20 k very well.
Your Mega Afocal Pulse Maser I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar) [R0ME], wrecking for 798.3 damage.
Your 425mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Guardian Captain, wrecking for 685.9 damage.
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vyperpit
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Posted - 2003.09.22 11:06:00 -
[8]
 Quote:
The 250 mm is a medium weapon , thus better at shorter ranges
yes correct but i think one thing is being over looked.
Quote:
the 425 is a battleship weapon , not designed to hit at under 20 k very well.
they should not be able to actually hit very well i agree but i think that the damage should be the same no matter what. as the same force is be used to propel it out. i say the damage should be alot less out side of its range but then there is not really or should not be as much friction in space.
its all depends on how you look at it but if the original poster if correct (not used my 425's since patch) then there is somthing worng.
----
Fair Fighting 
Quote stolen from Waagaa Ktlehr who borrowed it from ???
"If you end up in a fair fight, you planned it wrong." (Ehm yeah, or CCP ****ed with the scanner again..) |
Ka'loor
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Posted - 2003.09.22 11:23:00 -
[9]
The weapon should do equal damage at all ranges.....hitting is another thing, and I thought tracking was supposed to take care of that. TomB please take a look into this, a sniper rifle kill equally well, when you hold it to the head, or if your 1 klick away....
Yes 425mm rails, are long range weapons.....but a container should get hit for lots of damage at any range, as its not moving.
Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself.
Better to die with honor, than to live in shame. |
Rising Sin
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Posted - 2003.09.22 11:30:00 -
[10]
I think tracking may actually be the issue. Not entirely sure, as hybrids are not my area of expertise.
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"If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right." |
ga'ia
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Posted - 2003.09.22 12:16:00 -
[11]
The otimal range for the 425 is 48km and falloff 24km, thats the basic stats with no skills. This means you are ABLE to hit 48km+24km, but it wont do as much damage. At 48km you do the HIGHEST damage with exellent hits. Then the damage decrease again from 48km to 48km-24km, simply the reverse order of 48km+24km - 24km (towards the optimal range). I know for instans, the megathron is about a km long...and if you look at the guns and compare them to the ship, you can see that they are atleast about 50m long. Now thats a BIG gun. A 50m long cannon isnŠt somthing which are very easy to align, not even in space, just imagin. See it like this, instead of that it would take you 30 sec to align that bigass gun correctly aimed at the cargo, you simply miss instead, cuz it havnt align itself yet, and this ofcourse is when your bship isnt moving, cuz else it needs to compensate for that aswell dont it? Conclusion, nothing wrong on the 425. (PS, get blasters or use drones to blow em up)
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.09.26 12:09:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Novo DuPont on 26/09/2003 12:11:50
Man I wonder do some of you read the posts before flaming peeps or making a statement?????
Roba you need to READ the post before responding to it, being the noob that you are I thought you might need that tip.
The fact is I AM NOT talking about MISSING SHOTS which is what slower tracking does at closer ranges. DAMAGE AMOUNT SHOULD NOT change at closer ranges, the NUMBER OF HITS should though.
SO yes I should still get 150 to 200 avg hits at 20 km as I do at 45 km, just that at 20 km some shots will miss and give zero damage.
I dont need blasters or drones to blow them up since I jettisoned them on PURPOSE to see what the max damage potential is for them with the diff mods.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Ka'loor
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Posted - 2003.09.26 12:16:00 -
[13]
So can we finally get some statement, why novos 425mm do less damage on stationary cans??
tracking doesnt matter, as the target isnt moving and doesnt need to be tracked......your huge guns will be always perfectly aligned......
Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself.
Better to die with honor, than to live in shame. |
Roba
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Posted - 2003.09.26 12:22:00 -
[14]
Ok the can is not moving, but is his ship moving? That will affect the hits.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2003.09.26 13:13:00 -
[15]
afaik tracking applys both to physically tracking a ship .. and also to accuracy (defining the quality of the hit and the damage it does) so closer range reduces the quality/damage of hits as well as the chance to hit at all
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.26 14:27:00 -
[16]
Are yall forgetting signature radius?
I'd imagine a cargo container ain't very big...
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
The Major
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Posted - 2003.09.26 14:44:00 -
[17]
Dunno those Giant Cargo containers are about the size of a cruiser...
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Gildon
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Posted - 2003.09.26 16:04:00 -
[18]
Damage remains constant - with the altering factor of the 'quality' of the hit.
So the damage for an excellent HIT shouldn't be LESS the closer you are.
YOU SHOULD get FEWER excellent HITS closer due to tracking.
Something is up with the 425's.
Gil
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.26 19:02:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Dunno those Giant Cargo containers are about the size of a cruiser...
And a cruiser inside 10km is a pain in the ass to hit except when I have my Orion Tracking Computer running.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Lartfor
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Posted - 2003.09.26 19:45:00 -
[20]
425s are crap, just use dual 250s or 250 protos, cuz right now there is not much need for a gun that only really well at 40-70k.
they basically have a much lower DPS than a 250 because they just dont hit as often... And when u do hits, its often less than the 250 is hitting for.
thats my 2 cents
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xxxSLIVERxxx
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Posted - 2003.09.27 14:36:00 -
[21]
Latfar your obviously have not been in a fleet battle.
Half the posters on this thread have not really read the original post, or really dont know what the hell they are talking about.
425s suck still plain and simple. I have bs 2 with large hybrid damage bonus, lvl 4 large hybrid and surgical strike, and 3 mag vortex I, and the damage dealing is weak compared to lasers. Dont tell me about cap drain, 425s end up using as much cap as tachs since they have to fire more to match the damage total that tachs do.
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The Major
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Posted - 2003.09.27 16:56:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Quote:
Dunno those Giant Cargo containers are about the size of a cruiser...
And a cruiser inside 10km is a pain in the ass to hit except when I have my Orion Tracking Computer running.
Of course if neither you or your target are moving Tracking (at least in theory and I've yet to experience anything to suggest otherwise) doesn't come into it.
Y'know because the turret doesn't actually have to turn to follow the target if it's not moving. Similarly if you're having trouble hitting somebody then match their direction of travel as closely as possible and you'll take some of the strain off your turrets making them slightly more accurate. Not a great deal more accurate but every little bit helps right?
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.09.28 00:02:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Dont tell me about cap drain, 425s end up using as much cap as tachs since they have to fire more to match the damage total that tachs do.
So essentially you are saying that they are balanced?
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The Major
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Posted - 2003.09.29 17:04:00 -
[24]
Yes amazing isn't it that if you extend the time line long enough all the weapons deal the same damage over time in optimal conditions (within their turret size obv) and that the only real distinction between them are tactical considerations that have huge ramifications in PvP.
Who'd have thought it eh? You may find the best weapon to outwit the rather simplistic and dumb AI of NPC pirates but that's along way from being able to declare any one weapon "the best". It's all about tactics, if you're being shot at long range then don't sit there and give them a nice stationary target. Both sides will lose in a sniper war just like both sides will lose in a closecombat battle. It's about exploiting your enemies weaknesses.
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.09.30 16:32:00 -
[25]
To answer no I was not moving
Tracking has no bearing on this
The damage range formula is just reversed.
When you go farther and farther past the optimal range you deal less damage per shot period, missing doesnt count since a miss does no damage.
If I stand still at 20 km and at 45 km while shooting a cargo container that is still the damage MUST be the same, just the NUMBER of times I hit it will change.
Tracking will not cause a gun that was doing 165 damage per shot 90% of the time at 45 km to do 40 damage per shot 90% of the time at 20 km.
Tracking affects how many times you hit. The calculations for getting well placed and excellent shots are completely random and have no bearing on tracking speed, just damage mod.
Plus look at tach beams and 1400 mm, they both do same damage at close and long ranges, as long as they are under the optimal range. They just miss more the closer you get to a object.
The 425 mm should do the same thing as well and not be any different.
Like I said something is screwed up with the 425 mm range/damage formulas since tachs beams, and especially 1400mm howitzers, have same or slower tracking speeds but deal same damage whether you at 20 km or 45km, unlike 425 mm do.
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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