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Miss Negotiatrix
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
4
   |
Posted - 2014.04.25 22:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am rather new, I admit that so I ask a lot of stupid questions and if this is one of them I apologize in advance.
Ive been snooping through lowsec for awhile now, granted I am no where close to seeing all of lowsec that will take months if not years... but are there no moons for basic moon goo mats, I dont mean the really good mats nor the common ones I mean like plat or cad or something along those lines... every moon Ive come across has been taken which is rather frustrating if I want to set up a T2 production business, I knew Id have to buy a bunch of the stuff myself but I was hoping some could be mined myself.
So I guess the question is... are there any at all still open? I know you cant say on here exactly where to go since that would either take areas you want or would encourage everyone on the boards to check it out themselves but if there are moons open please let me know ... Im getting a little pessimistic in my search and could use some hope in finding something lol
I suppose if anyone really wanted they could send me a msg telling me where :D
anyway thanks. |
Chaotix Morwen
Ugly Duckling Inc
10
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 02:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Anything above silicates and evaporite deposits should already be taken by some decent corp/alliance. The amount of passive isk they generate is very attractive so basically every moon has been checked and taken over.
If your lucky you might find a decent moon under a dead tower, i scored a hafnium moon that way but as you know bashing those things just sucks.
My advice, just buy the materials, if you want to cut the costs buy the base materials and react the stuff itll save a lot of effort and lets you dictate your base of operations instead of having to stick around a particular moon. |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
227
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 05:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Miss Negotiatrix wrote: if I want to set up a T2 production business, I knew Id have to buy a bunch of the stuff myself but I was hoping some could be mined myself.
This is not how efficient industry works. Disabuse yourself of the idea. The problem here is not moon availability, it's your understanding of economics. |
Miss Negotiatrix
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 10:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thank you Chaotix Ill look into doing just that
And as for Loraine, I'm not sure what you thought I was referring to but I could point out several examples in the world where vertical integration was in fact a very viable model for a business, a lot of companies have gotten rich in the real world by understanding how that works and using it to its fullest. Of course maybe I'm wrong, hell maybe BP, Bell Systems, Reliance Industries or even Carnegie Steel, if you wanted a historical example, all just lucky using this method and in fact were not efficient at all nor did they properly understand economic theory one bit... Thank you for teaching more in 24 words or so then any economics teacher ever taught me in school, I wish my teachers were all as talented and articulate as you.
If your referring to my understanding of EVE economics then perhaps your right, I am new and am still trying to investigate and learn a lot about how best to make isk and set up a prospering business, Ill be the first to admit I haven't done a cost benefit analysis of every minutia of eve as I am still learning. In fact that's part of the reason I came here I thought some other people may be kind enough to offer some wisdom on their experiences in eve... I mean seriously with every decent moon being taken that I've found so far I don't know HOW I could of possibly got the idea that it may be profitable... I mean that's crazy right? I guess Ill just disabuse myself to the idea that all of these companies who own all of these moons are in fact making any isk at all.... They must be mining em for the love of the game and no other reason, I don't know how I could of been so dumb.... I am blonde it must be that.
Again thank you chatoix, I hadn't thought of just doing the reactions with all purchased materials... I will look into doing that, its a good idea..... and Loraine Thank you again for being so kind as to grace me with a reply that changed my basic understanding of the game as well as economic theory as a whole...If I misunderstood you then I apologize, your welcome to expand on what you said so I know what you were trying to say, from here it looked like you were being rather rude and insulting rather then helpful. |
Marcus Iunius Brutus
NerdRage Inc.
29
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 14:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Industry in EVE has a very simple model (although quite complicated for a computer game).
Probably the biggest differences between real industry and EVE industry are:
- you can "change a toothbrush factory into a tank factory with a click of a button" (by changing a blueprint on a production slot),
- every item has the same quality and is exactly the same as any other of its kind - customer will always buy the cheaper one.
T2 production has several steps (I could omit some):
- moon mining,
- simple and complex reactions,
- Planetary Interaction - extraction and creating higher tier stuff,
- T2 component manufacturing from moon products,
- T1 component manufacturing - R.A.M.,
- mining basic ores and refining them to minerals,
- getting datacores and decryptors from exploration/research agents/LP stores,
- T2 invention on T1 BPCs,
- logistics for all the above,
- finally manufacturing T2 products.
Each step can be done individually for a profit or if you do the whole chain, each step adds some value.
Some steps are usually combined:
- T1 BPO copying and T2 invention - because BPCs are PITA to trade due to availability on contracts only,
- PI extraction and processing - because of import/export taxes on planets,
- probably moon mining and reactions due to logistics but I don't know much about this topic.
Assuming you want to maximize your profits you can calculate which steps add most value to the final product - generates the most ISK per hour of real time.
For a one man corp moon mining is unrealistic (POS in low sec has to be defended) and buying materials from the market is the way to go.
An example about value added:
- let's say I have 20 manufacturing slots (2 characters, 10 per character) and I invented T2 BPCs for 2 weeks of production on those 20 slots,
- all of them require T2 components that are made from moon materials and R.A.M. (T1 items made from ores),
- I calculated that if I manufacture T2 components I'll be making (adding value) 60k ISK/hour and with R.A.M. 20k ISK/hour per slot,
- on the other hand the T2 items that I can produce will be making around 250k ISK/hour.
Remember that I have only 20 slots to use.
My choice will be to buy T2 components from the market as well as R.A.M. and use my 20 slots to produce the final item.
And a disclaimer: of course if I don't have enough ISK to produce my final item on 20 slots, I'll use some of the slots for T2 components or R.A.M.
Good luck! |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1330
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 14:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Miss Negotiatrix wrote:I could point out several examples in the world where vertical integration was in fact a very viable model for a business
Sure, but EVE != RL. Vertical integration is not even possible for the most part in T2 production here.
To do that you'd need:
Moons from multiple regions of nullsec
More moons for the reaction towers
People to protect those towers from gangs/other alliances
People to fuel the towers, remove the output, add new raw material\
Multiple people either doing data core agents or FW to get data cores
Explorers to get decryptors
Miners to get minerals
Multiple people doing PI to get the planetary mats for your T2 (and all your towers fuel)
Ice miners (for fuel and jump freigher fuel)
Logistics (as in the RL definition) to move this stuff from null/low and to move other stuff out.
Research BPOs
Copy BPOs and invent the resultant BPCs
Manufacture components
Manufacture T2
Now BP, Bell Systems, Reliance Industries and Carnegie Steel are all huge companies, with tens of thousands of employees. If you have an industrial empire with tens of thousands of EVE characters, maybe you can do full vertical integration. Until then, probably not. |
Miss Negotiatrix
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 15:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
thanks guys, I know complete vertical integration would be impossible and this is a game, but that guy was an ass and he didn't specify lol
The max I was considering going was moon mining, T1 production and T2 production... I didnt want to mine belts etc... but from the sounds of things moons are impossible so Ill make due... I just request when people give me advice they explain or at least try not to sound like asses :/
|
ShoreTay
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.26 21:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Miss Negotiatrix wrote:thanks guys, I know complete vertical integration would be impossible and this is a game, but that guy was an ass and he didn't specify lol
The max I was considering going was moon mining, T1 production and T2 production... I didnt want to mine belts etc... but from the sounds of things moons are impossible so Ill make due to me being alone... I just request when people give me advice they explain or at least try not to sound like asses :/
His post was actually fairly tame by EVE standards. |
Kaivar Lancer
Biological Mechanical Unlimited
494
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
T1 production and planetary industry are solo-friendly... |
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