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Nerf Neuts the new Nos

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Hlokk Skoggangur Shoot Them Later Serious Callers Only 13	Posted - 2014.04.27 12:38:00 - [1] - Quote In the interest in trying to recapture the spirit of GD, and actually complain about something interesting, I'm going to whine about energy neutralisers. Recently I've joined RvB on another character and I have been steadily losing frigates at an enjoyable rate. But there is one problem. Energy Neutralisers. They are instant death to fast tackle. ECM generally gets the most criticism, but for frigates losing cap when you are juggling scram, webs and afterburners removes them from the field. On top of this, I have dim memories that Nosferatus got nerfed for much the same reason (and yes I am playing with fitting them and energy neutralisers to frigates now too). So what do you think? Is cap warfare fun for all? Are neuts the new nos?
Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3655	Posted - 2014.04.27 12:39:00 - [2] - Quote Use Missiles and Bombs. No cap issue. And yes, I am aware that RvB frig scuffles are in highsec. Thats why I left lol * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius
Mag's the united SCUM. 17189	Posted - 2014.04.27 12:41:00 - [3] - Quote Actually nos was nerfed because there was no downside to their up. They were over nerfed and now look a bit better. There are options for frigs, but then :Cookie: Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Val'Dore PlanetCorp InterStellar E.A.R.T.H. Federation 439	Posted - 2014.04.27 12:53:00 - [4] - Quote Neuts have drawbacks for the user. SJD I invented Tiericide
Hlokk Skoggangur Shoot Them Later Serious Callers Only 14	Posted - 2014.04.27 13:00:00 - [5] - Quote Nos does look like it might be worth looking at for hero tackle, might make juggling scram and afterburners a little easier. Ah, I originally started in 07, but I don't remember the details around the changes to nos, except they would only drain cap if you were at a lower percentage(?) level than the target. The cap needed to run neuts can be challenging for smaller ships, but for larger ships this doesn't make them a hard choice to counter tackle. So are neutralisers too harsh for some ships, or is this just a part of the rich game of rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock we play?
Xearal Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 908	Posted - 2014.04.27 13:06:00 - [6] - Quote A hero tackler should do well to use a NOS to prevent people from eating all their cap. Also a hero tackler is exactly that, a hero, most likely they will die in a horrible fire for their corp members to get a kill. There are also capacitor batteries which protect you somewhat from being neuted if you want to go that way of course. Otherwise, this is simply rock, scissors, paper, shotgun. Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
Grimpak Shifting Sands Trader Cartel Bleak Horizon Alliance. 1424	Posted - 2014.04.27 13:30:00 - [7] - Quote nerf on NOS was because you would get the same pluses as the neuts, albeit at a bit less efficiency as I recall (NOS drained less than their comparable neut). Thing is tho, they would still drain you dry, while your oponent would be able to tap on a second capacitor tank (yours) indefinitely. Add the fact that we were in the dawn of the nano-age and you'll see behemoths like the nano nos-domi that could wipe a battlefield even when faced with superior numbers. thanks to that, even today I'm still very wary of facing a goddamn domi if I'm in anything smaller than a BC. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img] [quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Mizhir Euphoria Released Triumvirate. 60766	Posted - 2014.04.27 13:48:00 - [8] - Quote Neuts are one of the tools a larger ship has to deal with smaller ships. Nerfing them will only result in even more powerful frig blobs. One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp
BuckStrider Nano-Tech Experiments 254	Posted - 2014.04.27 13:59:00 - [9] - Quote Hlokk Skoggangur wrote: In the interest in trying to recapture the spirit of GD, and actually complain about something interesting, I'm going to whine about energy neutralisers. Recently I've joined RvB on another character and I have been steadily losing frigates at an enjoyable rate. But there is one problem. Energy Neutralisers. They are instant death to fast tackle. ECM generally gets the most criticism, but for frigates losing cap when you are juggling scram, webs and afterburners removes them from the field. On top of this, I have dim memories that Nosferatus got nerfed for much the same reason (and yes I am playing with fitting them and energy neutralisers to frigates now too). So what do you think? Is cap warfare fun for all? Are neuts the new nos? Neuts have and always been the biggest threat to frig class ships. Where the hell have you been? Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 631	Posted - 2014.04.27 14:03:00 - [10] - Quote Lets put the thead in context: Quote: CCP Fozzie: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=333880&p=1 Hello everyone! I have a fairly simple tweak to bring forward today, a straightforward improvement in the rate of fire of all Nosferatu modules. We're looking to decrease the duration attribute of all NOS modules by 16.66%, therefore increasing their cap drain over time by 20%. This will serve to improve NOS for all ships, and will pair especially well with the new Blood Raider ship line.

Ramona McCandless The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity 3656	Posted - 2014.04.27 14:04:00 - [11] - Quote Quote: the new Blood Raider ship line. * Vote MTU For CSM * *Free The Jita 1* "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius
Nariya Kentaya Phoenix funds 1220	Posted - 2014.04.27 14:22:00 - [12] - Quote Since some people have actually responded constructively oh no, someone wants to be able to play without a hard counter to their class, whine whine whine. But yeah, i play deicated sentinel in small-scale and emdium scale pvp gangs, there are huge disadvantages to me fitting all my EWAR (namely, the fact that the only thing i have to defend myself should i get drones on me is to either take my droens off the target or hope my gang can save me). On that note however, I love flying a sentinel with 3 neuts and 2 tracking disruptors, utterly annihilates anything turret based, frigate, cruiser, or battelship.
Solecist Project Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 873	Posted - 2014.04.27 14:51:00 - [13] - Quote I never had issues with neuts. You just shouldn't activate them instantly, but instead watch your cap. When it suddenly dries out, activate the NOS. Micromanagement can be annoying, but it helps. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4492860 Killmails for Wrecks!! Ganker tears, best tears! And how do I put text as links into signatures??

ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 1216	Posted - 2014.04.27 14:58:00 - [14] - Quote This thread has been moved to Ships & Modules. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Maeltstome Twisted Insanity. The Kadeshi 437	Posted - 2014.04.28 09:09:00 - [15] - Quote Nos is designed to keep limited, low cap/s modules running - which is exactly what Tackle modules are. If you are a TRUE tackler, you fit passive EHP and minimum of 1 nos on highs. Damage isn't even tertiary, it's about 5th on the list of priorities for tackle. The duration of neuts Vs. Nos creates a clear messages: Neuts are designed to destabilise a ships tank/Damage-Output and Nos is designed to mitigate the effects of Neuts when applied to small ships. Unbonused Neuts are fine imo - 'Geddons and Bhaalgorns though... that's a different story. It's fine when a paper thin curse neuts you from 40km, but BS sized neut boats are boring and 100% necessary in cap-fleet-fights.
Oska Rus Free Ice Cream People 159	Posted - 2014.04.28 09:28:00 - [16] - Quote You can counter neuts by using cap boosters.
Hlokk Skoggangur Shoot Them Later Serious Callers Only 17	Posted - 2014.04.28 09:29:00 - [17] - Quote Maeltstome wrote: Nos is designed to keep limited, low cap/s modules running - which is exactly what Tackle modules are. If you are a TRUE tackler, you fit passive EHP and minimum of 1 nos on highs. Damage isn't even tertiary, it's about 5th on the list of priorities for tackle. The duration of neuts Vs. Nos creates a clear messages: Neuts are designed to destabilise a ships tank/Damage-Output and Nos is designed to mitigate the effects of Neuts when applied to small ships. Unbonused Neuts are fine imo - 'Geddons and Bhaalgorns though... that's a different story. It's fine when a paper thin curse neuts you from 40km, but BS sized neut boats are boring and 100% necessary in cap-fleet-fights. I've been running a shield buffer atron for tackle lately. Generally when I'm being neuted thanks to cycle times, it's my hybrids that stop first. Though generally i am focusing on keeping my scramblers running, followed by after burners and then rails. Wondering if it worth looking at neuts for when I'm more likely to be facing frigates. Though auxillary shield boosters seem to be becoming popular so I am not sure if it is worth it.
Valleria Darkmoon Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel 238	Posted - 2014.04.28 10:41:00 - [18] - Quote Oska Rus wrote: You can counter neuts by using cap boosters. I've been harping on about the seeming aversion to cap injection since I started playing and I still see very few mails where someone has an injector fitted. Most people seem to acknowledge that cap injection can save you from a lot of tight situations by drastically extending the combat life of your capacitor, but still they rarely seem to find a way to get cap injectors onto their fits even when armor tanking. I assume it has a lot to do with the fact that cap injectors are: A) Not passive modules nor can they be turned on and left to run for the entire fight meaning it has to be used well and is one more thing to worry about in a high pressure situation. B) Use a decent amount of PG often requiring a downgrade somewhere else in the fit or a fitting mod to fit them. C) Monopolize your cargo with charges (although navy boosters did help in this regard) In most cases though I would prefer to be jammed than cap dead. Can't burn away from a Falcon with no cap and ECM can fail, neuts will not. Probably has a lot to do with my Amarrian upbringing but Navy 400s get me going in the morning and Navy 800s are my addiction.
Valleria Darkmoon Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel 238	Posted - 2014.04.29 01:58:00 - [19] - Quote Hlokk Skoggangur wrote: I've been running a shield buffer atron for tackle lately. Generally when I'm being neuted thanks to cycle times, it's my hybrids that stop first. Though generally i am focusing on keeping my scramblers running, followed by after burners and then rails. Wondering if it worth looking at neuts for when I'm more likely to be facing frigates. Though auxillary shield boosters seem to be becoming popular so I am not sure if it is worth it. ASBs are not cap injectors despite what some people think. They are semi-capless tanking mods that have a limited number of uses. The cap booster charges in your ASB can not power anything else so capping out a target with an ASB is still a big advantage. Sure they can still boost but if they can't do anything else it won't get them very far. Not to mention sometimes a cycle of a prop mod can break web range while getting a shield boost cycle in only delays the inevitable. If a frigate is running an AB and an ASB and gets neuted out by a ship that outmatches it a cap injector may allow it to run its AB for damage mitigation either by pulling range or orbiting at higher speed without a signature bloom. All the ASB can possibly do is give back shield and allows for the hope that friends show up before your frigate pops. Often the mitigation of the AB would keep you alive longer than the boosts from an ASB particularly in cases of high alpha (anything that does more than 100% of your shield per volley but less than 100% of your total HP). In short, if a ship is using an ASB go ahead and neut it out anyway, this is nothing like using a TD on a ship that only has missile damage.


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