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trap
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Posted - 2006.05.19 10:47:00 -
[1]
this isnt a whine before you start! lol. As a hac user i just want to know if someone out there has a definitive answer as to why market price for hacs has soared in the past 5months? I can understand the increase in cerberous price to some extent due to the missle buff but for the others i am at a loss they havent changed and there isnt the ram bug now.
So is it simply a case of producer gouging the consumer or is there a less cynical reason. Any construcive thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thanks
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[ 2003.11.20 05:35:28 ] Jade Constantine > looks like you blasted the crap out of a load of our ships again |
Rhona
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Posted - 2006.05.19 10:55:00 -
[2]
Demand vs supply, like every market.
- Everyday more people get the skills to fly a HAC
- Supply does not increase
- Alot of the BPO's are owned by alliances/corporation who only use it internally which means a decrease in supply.
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trap
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Posted - 2006.05.19 12:05:00 -
[3]
so its souly due to the popluation boom of hac users then? supply cant meet demand? Just seems a little easy to me, Watson! to work!
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[ 2003.11.20 05:35:28 ] Jade Constantine > looks like you blasted the crap out of a load of our ships again |
Naphtalia
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Posted - 2006.05.19 12:09:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: trap
so its souly due to the popluation boom of hac users then? supply cant meet demand? Just seems a little easy to me, Watson! to work!
Don't FORGET the RAM boost... it is hard to just all of a sudden charge 100M more for hacs.. however if you temporary HAVE to then it is easy to not drop the price.
Think of Gasoline prices... War breaks out in middle east, shell increases price of gasoline by 10ct however.. do you think they drop 10ct again when the war is over?
Same with HACS, RAM bug -> all producers bumped up price together -> end RAM bug -> all produces kept price high..
That and of course demand increase
EMFI General IPO is LIVE! |
Bach
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Posted - 2006.05.19 12:52:00 -
[5]
Supply and demand are certainly the factors in effect. But as posted above, when the RAM bug cleared the prices never came back down. Why? Because players are still scrapping up the isk to purchase at these prices and greedy sellers keep them up high.
What would you assume is a good profit margin on a HAC? 100%...200%...300%....its whatever you can get. Thats how it works in a free market.
The price of Covert Cloaks has done the same thing. The Recon ships themselves have come down in price somewhat but the cloaks are higher than ever. This makes it a 200mil isk endeavor to bring a Recon ship to the table to contest. The opponent can bring x8 BS to the fight and still not be risking as much as you in your single Recon. Think of the fairness of play of this for a second. You have to risk 8 times more than the other guy. Is any HAC/RECON 8 times better than a BS? No they aren't the prices have exceeded the practical benefit of the platform.
I quit flying the damn things. I can easily get comparable results out of either a non-cloaking recon or my own BS. Screw the cloak suppliers just use comparable T1 ships with T2 mods at a fraction of the cost.
In the case of the HAC. Unless your doing agent missions, PVP can be handled comparably well in T1 Cruiser with T2 loadouts or just go back to the good old dependable BS standards. We PVP ALL the time and I can confirm the T1/T2 mod variants work well for a fraction of todays market costs. If you want to solve the problem just quit buying them for a month or so. Two things will happen. Either enough of us will stop buying and prices will drop...or... we'll find others methods to achieve our goals and won't need the old product anymore. Supply and demand kills off as many manufacturers as it creates.
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trap
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Posted - 2006.05.19 14:34:00 -
[6]
its sad because i like many people train for hacs and recons and such because they dont want to fly bs, their slow and clumbersome. Its just a shame at the of the day. Bring in some communisim i say set the prices so every1 gets a fair deal!
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[ 2003.11.20 05:35:28 ] Jade Constantine > looks like you blasted the crap out of a load of our ships again |
Rasta Rocketman
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Posted - 2006.05.19 14:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: trap
its sad because i like many people train for hacs and recons and such because they dont want to fly bs, their slow and clumbersome. Its just a shame at the of the day. Bring in some communisim i say set the prices so every1 gets a fair deal!
or better yet, introduce 'free market' capitalism. All items aside from t2 items are free market meaning anyone can get in and make the market more competitive (ie...BPOs available on market).
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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2006.05.19 14:44:00 -
[8]
Personally Imho ..
I believe the prices are high because of the sudden increase in the popularity / usefulness of the Cerb.
Everyone has seen the price explode and re sellers etc can see that the current market prices Cerbs were selling at , and brought the other ships "into line" so to speak.
Anyhow Just an opinion
Regards
Al Thorr
"You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
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Hellspawn01
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Posted - 2006.05.19 14:57:00 -
[9]
I blame the resellers.
**Ship lovers click here** |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:33:00 -
[10]
I blame consumers, producers and resellers. Every action in EvE effects everyone.
Producers make and sell at 2M.
Consumers and Resellers buys at 2M.
Resellers resell at 4M.
Consumers can not find cheap item and have to buy at 4M. Cry a bit but still buy because feel insecure. Need T2 to win.
Producers see item can sell at 4M. Next batch is sold at 4M.
Consumers and Resellers buys at 4M.
Resellers resell at 8M.
Consumers can not find cheap item and have to buy at 8M. Cry even more but still buy because feel insecure. Need T2 to win.
Producers see item can sell at 8M. Next batch is sold at 8M.
Consumers and Resellers buys at 8M.
Resellers resell at 12M.
Consumers can not find cheap item and have to buy at 12M. Cry at CCP in forums but still buy because feel insecure. Need T2 to win.
Producers see item can sell at 12M. Next batch is sold at 12M.
Reverse engineering would make some items a bit cheaper but dont put too much hope. As long as consumers are densed, prices will always increase. Can not afford T2s, dont use it? You want it, you pay for it.
Sometimes I want to feel sorry but I just can not feel sorry for these people any more. T1s 4tw.
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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Arakasai
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Posted - 2006.05.19 16:39:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Arakasai on 19/05/2006 16:43:02
Originally by: Naphtalia
Think of Gasoline prices... War breaks out in middle east, shell increases price of gasoline by 10ct however.. do you think they drop 10ct again when the war is over?
So much sadness :(
The real world economy is exactly the same as the Eve economy it is market driven. Shell does not just arbitrarily raise the gasoline prices when war breaks out and drop it again when the war is over.
The price per barrel on oil is subject to supply versus demand just like anything else. The price at the pumps is set based upon the futures market. Both upwards and downwards.
In the past, a number of attempts to control the Oil market and through it the gasoline market have been made. Some more successful than others. However, unlike diamonds, oil and through it gasoline is probably currently the most uncontrolled it has ever been.
Companies like Shell make a margin, similar to the bank and mortgages. That is all, nothing sinister here. Everything you learn in Eve about a free market economy is equally applicable to real life. If North Americans would cut down on their gasoline consumption, the demand would drop and the price would drop.
Hell, the biggest gasoline cost relief you could make an arguement for is government taxation. Governments make a percentage, if gasoline costs double they make twice as much and they tax gasoline pretty heavily in most first world countries. Prying the taxmans grip off the gasoline prices would offer substancial savings without affecting their profit as it were.
Unfortunately, similar to Eve people like to consume ... in Eve they consume HACs in real life they consume gasoline.
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trap
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Posted - 2006.05.19 17:03:00 -
[12]
oil my ass jus sell hacs cheaper!!!!1!1!1!!!
you all make valid points thank you for posting
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[ 2003.11.20 05:35:28 ] Jade Constantine > looks like you blasted the crap out of a load of our ships again |
Daos Leghki
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Posted - 2006.05.20 03:10:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Daos Leghki on 20/05/2006 03:10:44
There is one difference between the oil market and the HAC market. If the oil market makes a killing, there's incentive to invest money in it and start up your own company. This increases supply, and drops the price to a new equilibrium. At the current state, production in HACs is artificially capped (perfectly inelastic for those who care). This means that although you can get into the market (buy a BPO), you remove someone else from the market, and end up with no net market change. Because of this, the equilibrium price for HACs is rather high. The prices for HACs are market driven, but they are not FREE market driven, because there is no capability to enter that market.
The oil prices will eventually soar until demand drops off and everything stabilises at a new (higher) equilibrium and we will have reached optimal conditions. The HACs market will not, because the mechanism for change is non-existent. IMO, it's one of the failures of the design of T2, but I'll appreciate it if no one starts flaming me, cause this isn't my thread and it's been talked about before :P
EDIT: spelling
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trap
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Posted - 2006.05.20 10:52:00 -
[14]
god it really feels like im back studying business. Are you a business studies teacher by chance?
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[ 2003.11.20 05:35:28 ] Jade Constantine > looks like you blasted the crap out of a load of our ships again |
Godless123
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Posted - 2006.05.20 17:23:00 -
[15]
what if we all get our force together and declare to all those whiners? there once was a corp, lacuna viators, who used to keep prices low, now what? it surely is a market rule (i am degreed in economics and all u said it's true, D/O curve....) till the 2 curves will meet higher and higher the prices will be there, on the eagle's nest -.- the only thing we could do is to switch back to bs and other t1 ships or declare alltogether to the bpo owners -.- i suggest the second choice....it's funnier :P
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Iyala Vitae
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Posted - 2006.05.21 09:42:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Iyala Vitae on 21/05/2006 09:42:34
Actually, I'm a college student that failed Econ101......studying it again atm, so that's why I've got the stuff in my brain. Apologies for wordines.
Also....wtf is the guy above me saying? I can't read....then again, could be 'cause it's 6AM and I haven't slept yet.
EDIT: Damn alts, this is Daos Leghki
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