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Sidrew
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:05:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sidrew on 19/05/2006 15:15:17
Edited by: Sidrew on 19/05/2006 15:05:39
(2) Customer Support (aka "WTF is going on with my petition!?!")
There's nothing that a player hates more than falling victim to bug #28837104, petitioning, and "enjoying" the interminable wait for support. The most memorable and exciting experience in this realm to date was the complete and utter SNAFU with the password "hacking" of a few months ago. I personally got to enjoy days and days of non-communication as my only account was locked out. Granted, I was a dope and hadn't updated my account information with a valid email address, but the lag in support was atrocious. If this Chinese release brings in the revenue you hope, please spend some of that on beefing up your support staff.
I challenge a Dev to respond to this directly. I love the game and want to see it move forward as much as everyone else. Please just give the players what they want most... information. (Well, bug fixes can't hurt either...)
Sidrew
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Sidrew
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:05:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Sidrew on 19/05/2006 15:04:47
I've played this game since a few weeks after the initial release... oh so long ago. It continues to be the most interestingly complex game I've ever played. The game is visually gorgeous, innovative and quite unique in its great potential. But nothing is ever perfect, nor will it ever be. Let me lay out the problems I see moving forward with the game and its development staff.
(1) Communication (aka "Lack Thereof")
The greatest Sin of the EVE dev team is the lack of proper communication. I've read the posts and the explanations for non-communication and I have to say that they don't quite "cut-the-mustard" as it were. If you can't talk about features or plans, then communicate that to the player base. The worst thing for this player base that I've seen is the dreaded "Information Vacuum." You just simply can't go for extended periods of time without saying SOMETHING about the development status.
The players get to read about you doing various other things; such as, going to E3, or developing a separate "shard" for the Chinese MMO market, <insert whatever here>. But when there are expansions promised and glaring bugs to fix, those things need be addressed regularly, probably at least weekly.
For instance, the fabled "Kali Phase 1" was most recently scheduled (let's not get into prior release estimates) to be released Q2 2006. And as Q2 arrived and progressed, there was scarcely little information regarding the supposed "impending" release. So, the devs plan a trip to E3 for fun and frolicking (Read: Marketing) and we get to agonize over new information released there that goes nowhere near addressing any of the players' base's REAL concerns, such as bug-fixing the current release and fleshing out the upcoming "Kali Phase 1." So, the players gnash their teeth and continue to try to be patient, which quite simply isn't in the nature of most gamers. We're a special breed. Upon their return from E3, the devs decide to drop the bomb on us that "Kali Phase 1" won't make the Q2 timeframe but will be pushed to September 2006.
While I'm sure that this situation is completely unavoidable for whatever reason (Read: China Release), it doesn't really matter. What matters is that while the players' base is screaming for information on the forum(s), our pleas fall on deaf and/or seemingly indifferent "ears." Take some time, compose a nice message, and let the players know what's going on. Even if you can't say anything due to public relations or legal issues, say that... and provide an estimate on when you can tell us the things we want to know. The vacuum is killing us.
Also, there's the issue of the website. I'm not sure how long it has been, but the "Patch Notes" section of the site needs to be completed. This is directly related to "Communication" for the simple fact that if someone there were keeping this up-to-date, many of the players' base's questions could easily be answered there. Details:
Patch Notes: Ok, seriously... put together patch notes for the test server as well. I can't imagine that it's really that difficult. Maybe you could get more people interested in helping test if you gave a clear idea of what was out for testing.
In Testing: Exactly what things are the Devs working on for the next release? I don't know how long it's been that this section has said "No content... yet," but I'm quite certain some player out there would be happy to rant about it. Just give us a little due diligence here. You could answer SO many questions in this section that would probably benefit you by having players talk about it.
I could go on and on about this... but it's simply this: The devs need to learn how to better communicate with the players. Surely it can't be that hard.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:07:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/05/2006 15:12:19
This pretty much sums it up, yeah. Thanks for writing a constructive post on it.
Edit: There are however the sticky that says the same things.
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The Eve Wiki Project |
Shinoobie
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:18:00 -
[4]
A very well thought out and constructive post.
I hope it gets the reply it deserves.
\signed
Elite Scouting 
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Arakasai
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:36:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Arakasai on 19/05/2006 15:37:24
This is a challenge with all online gaming environments. To get everything you want you would have to pay more to allow CCP to support it. Problem is you do not want to pay more. So, something that most of the world seems to have lost the ability to see: "You get what you pay for". Can you think of ANY other service you get for $14.95 a month? Hell I pay $100 a month for my cable services and the support is worse.
CCP is doing pretty damn well for how little they get paid for their service. You want everything you are asking for, then you should probably drop in a request for a "premium priced server" rather than just demanding more for less as it were.
The DEVs communicate far more here than in any other game I have played. This will drop off in time as the game gets more popular because for every person asking for more information, there are 10 people that will ***** when something that was mentioned could not be implemented. The math becomes obvious quickly, **** off 1 person via communication vacuum or **** of 10 people by trying to let people in on what is going on. Unfortunately for those of us that can maturely deal with expectation management there are a far greater number of those that cannot.
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Emsigma
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:41:00 -
[6]
(3) The lack of stringency
The petitions beeing handled by the gazillion different GM's are in no way handled stringent at all. Often the GM's responses contradict each others and while one petition gets handled in one way an EXACT copy of it get handled totally different.
The team leader over at the support department must sit down and start down to make a firm policy and guidelines how different situations should be adressed.
Also, I think that we need a way for emergency petitions and not only the ones that we have now. To file something under the "Others" category is to send flask post across the pacific ocean. Someone might pick the petition up after 30 minutes and someone might pick it up a week later. Sometimes no one picks it up and you get a mail after 2 weeks saying that they deleted the petition and if it was important you can re-submit it.
What if this petition was about something that have to be sorted NOW? (IE the time where we recharged the shields of our pos with shield transfers arrays, the server crashes and when it comes up the shields are back to <50% again.
Sure we can peititon it and wait 4 days for it to be solved, but then it really doesn't matter no more does it?
Please CCP, hire someone with solid support team leading experience to start to solve these matters.
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Sidrew
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:47:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Arakasai
Edited by: Arakasai on 19/05/2006 15:37:24
This is a challenge with all online gaming environments. To get everything you want you would have to pay more to allow CCP to support it. Problem is you do not want to pay more. So, something that most of the world seems to have lost the ability to see: "You get what you pay for". Can you think of ANY other service you get for $14.95 a month? Hell I pay $100 a month for my cable services and the support is worse.
CCP is doing pretty damn well for how little they get paid for their service. You want everything you are asking for, then you should probably drop in a request for a "premium priced server" rather than just demanding more for less as it were.
The DEVs communicate far more here than in any other game I have played. This will drop off in time as the game gets more popular because for every person asking for more information, there are 10 people that will ***** when something that was mentioned could not be implemented. The math becomes obvious quickly, **** off 1 person via communication vacuum or **** of 10 people by trying to let people in on what is going on. Unfortunately for those of us that can maturely deal with expectation management there are a far greater number of those that cannot.
Well.. I would expect that the devs are "mature" enough to deal with "flame management" as well. It really takes nothing to simply put out the information and ignore the flames. They're doing a fantastic job of ignoring us now.
And surely you're not suggesting that CCP released the game with no intention of properly supporting it. $14.95/mo was for what price they released the game. That was their decision. Why shouldn't the player base have a reasonable expectation of support? Simple communication falls under my definition of "reasonable expectation."
Sidrew
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Lisento Slaven
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:47:00 -
[8]
I'd just like to say in regards to communication that EVE is the only, the *only* MMO that I have played where the administration has even bothered to talk to the player base regularly. I've never come across any game where the administration actually tell players anything about anything that is going on. CCP does let us know what's going on, but of course not all the time.
I'm glad I get some than none...and it's actually cool that they play their own game so they have obligations to fix it as well =P
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Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales! |
Emily Spankratchet
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sidrew
(1) Communication (aka "Lack Thereof")
I'm stunned, frankly. CCP's dev team is by far the most communicative of any that I have experienced. And I've been playing games for the last 20-odd years.
I'm not saying CCP is perfect, but how can you fault them on this? Even considering the recent hiatus in dev communication they are still miles better that the competition.
(Expecting to be flamed as a "mindless fanboi")
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.19 15:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
I'm not saying CCP is perfect, but how can you fault them on this? Even considering the recent hiatus in dev communication they are still miles better that the competition.
I think they are doing great at the moment. Since they posted that dev blog everything has been alot better, with them responding to a few threads and showing up in the forums and all. It was mostly that week during E3 with the total radio silence that was frustrating, and i think this is what he means.
Things are much better now.
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The Eve Wiki Project |
Sidrew
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Posted - 2006.05.19 16:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Originally by: Sidrew
(1) Communication (aka "Lack Thereof")
I'm stunned, frankly. CCP's dev team is by far the most communicative of any that I have experienced. And I've been playing games for the last 20-odd years.
I'm not saying CCP is perfect, but how can you fault them on this? Even considering the recent hiatus in dev communication they are still miles better that the competition.
(Expecting to be flamed as a "mindless fanboi")
Feh...
I too have been playing games for a "long" time... and while CCP is the most communicative ever... I just want them to lie in the bed that they made. You can't just ignore us for "long" stretches of time without any information... we're too used to something better. Perhaps I don't troll these boards enough to keep up with things...
And of course... on the heels of me posting this... we get a new set of Patch Notes. So, we've got that going for us... which is nice.
However, I stand by my original assertions... and I'll still be playing tonight when I get home from work... love this game.
Sidrew
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Faeden Pain
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Posted - 2006.05.19 16:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sidrew
Edited by: Sidrew on 19/05/2006 15:04:47
(1) Communication (aka "Lack Thereof")
But when there are expansions promised and glaring bugs to fix, those things need be addressed regularly, probably at least weekly.
I was thinking about this subject just the other day, and IMHO you are right on the mark. As others have stated, this has been an issue in any MMO. Certainly in all I have been a part of. Communication here, seems to be "par for the course" As it were, no better, no worse really.
As I have only been in EVE for six months or so, I cant comment on past history. There are though a number of issues I come across in the forums. All brought up by players, the majority are posted in a well written, concise post. That post will then generate an additional 4+ pages of (for the most part) intelligent discussion on the bug/problem. Not once have I come across an official response. A simple "we'll look into this", or perhaps "that is the way it and will stay because...." would be nice.
I drank WHAT?!!?!.....Socrates |
Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.05.19 16:55:00 -
[13]
I want one thing fixed this month.
Petitions.
I'll be honest with you. over the past 5 years I've been in 2 other MMO's I payed for. But I beta Tested about 8.
In all the beta tests THE IN GAME PETITION SYSTEM WORKED.
how are we supposed to get you the devs the info you need to fix things if the petition system doesn't work.
that's all I want for the month of May.
Petitions. that's it.
Small PvE/PvP Corp looking for Members.
2-10Mill SP. Click for details.
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Boonaki
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Posted - 2006.05.19 17:04:00 -
[14]
I'd have to agree, CCP is one of the best at customer support, but they can always improve.
One game I played (**** SOE) that shall remane un-named, I had a petition that I had to wait 2 months to get any kind of answer. When they did it was "I'm sorry, our records don't show you ever had that item" and closed the petition without allowing me to respond. I started to write another petition but didn't want to wait another couple of months. I canceled my subscription and found Eve.
Fear the Ibis of doom! |
Caethes Adain
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Posted - 2006.05.19 18:59:00 -
[15]
CCP are pretty good with communication imho, yes, it has been quiet for a while but they have a had a shed load to do. There's the new china server which is a good thing, more revenue=more staff=more content quicker, there have been problems as stated in the new dev blog and this is a new area for them so we should be patient and wish them the best.
The dig at CCP for going to E3 was just out of place, yes they HAVE to market, get there product out there so may people may join. More people = more revenue = more staff = more content and quicker.
I think that peoples impatience for kali is causing way too many problems and i'm sure when it arrives peole will be whinning that they want things as they were last patch (as per usual after every patch ). Why not just chill, enjoy the game. There is nothing we can do to make things better or come faster besides bug testing when new stuff becomes available on sisi.
I'm really looking forward to kali, mainly next gen R&D, yes I would love to have the info now even though the latest dev blog was pretty damn good but i'm sure they are still hard at work with it all.
As for bugs, yes, it would be nice to get them all sorted out. I'm sure there was a dev blog about this some months ago saying that they have peeps speccificaly working on bug fixes, not sure what happened though. Less mental drones would be a welcome return 
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.05.19 19:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Arakasai
Hell I pay $100 a month for my cable services and the support is worse.
You'd better get every channel known to man, and a few that aren't.
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ZzeusS
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Posted - 2006.05.19 19:37:00 -
[17]
You guys think this china business is going to help anyone here?  
Wouldn't count on it!
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Emily Spankratchet
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Posted - 2006.05.19 21:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
I'm stunned, frankly. CCP's dev team is by far the most communicative of any that I have experienced.
I know it's rude to quote myself, but looky here, there's lots of communication. </smug>
Originally by: Sidrew
I too have been playing games for a "long" time... and while CCP is the most communicative ever... I just want them to lie in the bed that they made.
I know what you mean. The trouble is, we're spoilt by their usual level of involvement. In an ideal world, EvE would massage my shoulders while playing too, but I'm happy for above-average dev involvement.
The thing I really love about CCP is that they're all human. They make occasional *****ups, but they seem to care enough about the game that they strive to fix things when they do that. I'd rather have this than a sterile, perfect, remote development team.
Having said all that, I'd still like to point out that drone behaviour makes me want to go postal.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.19 21:39:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/05/2006 21:39:03
Yeah, this thread is already old. Let it die and read the new stickys. 
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The Eve Wiki Project |
Kira Natel
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Posted - 2006.05.20 01:21:00 -
[20]
You do realize there is only 1 GM with a Gazillion different names
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Leilani Solaris
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Posted - 2006.05.20 01:24:00 -
[21]
The only gripe i have at the moment is the paypal issue, and i believe that isn't CCP's fault..
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Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2006.05.20 03:26:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Righteous Fury on 20/05/2006 03:26:50
While I don't agree with the communication issue, the petition issue is extremely valid.
I had to wait three weeks to get a market order that disappeared reimbursed. THREE WEEKS. Less than six months ago, the issue would have been resolved in three days tops. In addition to the ridiculous wait time on 'Other' petitions, the responses from GMs have become its own particular pile of filth that it deserves a new entry in the dictionary. Petition one issue to three different GMs, you'll get three different answers. Or, better yet, they'll imply that you're a lying cheater looking for a free handout. But if you're really lucky, they'll just tell you that 'there are no records to prove your claim' and close your petition without giving you a chance to respond.
CCP have stated time and again that they dont have the in-house resources and staff to run their own GM team, however I think its high time they looked into it more seriously. Contracting out a GM team leads to more trouble than its worth.
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Jhonen Senraedi
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Posted - 2006.05.20 03:42:00 -
[23]
Yep..GM's all seem to have different views...close petitions as it's wasting their time etc. when you haven't actually had an answer regarding your point...i.e bug causes los..they just go to the standard our records don't show etc. or no such bug exists.
Even when directed or referred to instances where bugs etc are reported by other players...they ignore them...going on about wild theories etc..or give standard spiel skirting around the actual issue.
If they won't re-imburse bug losses..or even listen to us regarding bugs etc..then what's the point of customer service or bug reporting...seems some of the GM's have issues with us annoying customers who want to be treated fairly.
And when you try to carry on a situation that you feel is not resolved or needs to be looked at in the context it was meant there are veiled threats of warnings etc.
Definitely need a dedicated inhouse GM team..one that works closely with Devs and bug-fixers....and one that understands the game and it's fanbase.
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Sakura Nihil
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Posted - 2006.05.20 06:09:00 -
[24]
if someone can write a good elaboration the "China shard" sin, and how CCP is starting to go after big bucks all of a sudden at our expense, I would <3 you for long time
damn sig hijack!!11!
Signature removed. Max filesize is 24,000 bytes. -Eldo ([email protected])
Forum warrior in training =P |
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