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NPC Stations need to be removed from 0.0 space

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Cummilla	Posted - 2006.05.19 21:35:00 - [61] I keep thinking that the OP needs to wake up a bit and see that the soveriegnty system that sits on the doorstep waiting to take over in his perfect little world of no NPC stations isn't all that wonderful itself! Being a POS w4ore is '............'
Wild Rho	Posted - 2006.05.19 21:43:00 - [62] I'm against. Currently unconquerable stations provide corps and alliances a foothold to begin attempts to claim space of their own. Without them it would become far far tougher to oust already established alliances. The areas around unconquerable should be less richer than more remote areas to help promote player colonisation of 0.0 and npc stations should be gathered more closer to empire leaving areas of deep 0.0 for players to colonise. WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.05.19 21:44:00 - [63] Edited by: welsh wizard on 19/05/2006 21:44:52 Originally by: dabster Stain is a messed up region tbh, worst 0.0 region CCP ever created. There should definatly be 0.0 regions with npc stations though, or the whole game in 0.0 would be about and with, alliance. It would exclude far too many players. Exactly. Removing npc stations is likely to force out those people who want to live in 0.0 but don't want to join an alliance. It will also deter people living in empire from moving to 0.0 more than it does already. That's not good for Eve.
Bland Inquisitor	Posted - 2006.05.19 21:47:00 - [64] No offence but id like to point a few things out 0.0 Is still the homes of Pirate factions within the game. I.e they have there own stations and allow people in lawless space to dock. This game is not just about PVP, It's about marketing, Traders, Mission runners, all of it. A fact you PVPERS seem to forget about quite alot and very conveniently. There is a role play side to eve which you obviously havent thought about. This must continue within the game. EVE was not soley created for OMGWTFPPVWE00T you are not the only players in the game. There are planety of regions in the game which can be fought over. Been Playing EVE 6 Months And No One Pimped My Sig :( Lost Dawn Technologies Is Recruiting :D
Mark A	Posted - 2006.05.19 21:58:00 - [65] Edited by: Mark A on 19/05/2006 21:58:15 There should be NPC stations in 0.0, it's just the distribution needs looking at. Some regions have loads and some have virtually none. Both NPC and conquerable stations have their pros and cons (invulnerability vs. refining taxes for instance) so there should be an even mix. If you remove NPC stations entirely, a number of bad things happen. Mostly you effectively hand over monopoly control of all of 0.0 to the major alliances. Without 100's of players, a cap ship fleet and 100 billion of isk you might as well stay at home. Thus you discourage new players to even explore 0.0 let alone migrate there. NPC stations also add an interesting dynamic to regional wars - they provide you with a safe haven, but one that your enemies can also utilise. Like I said, the fix is to make the distribution of both NPC and conquerable stations a little more even, and hold off on the whole baby/bathwater solution .
Hey You	Posted - 2006.05.19 22:06:00 - [66] Here's what I think alot of the people saying 0.0 NPC stations should be removed are missing. 1. The regions with them are much less rich with ore/complexes. 2. It DOES make life easier to survive in, in one way, but it also allows the easier invasion tactic. 5 people can enter, kill some NPCers, dock, log off, wait 3 hours, log on, quickly undock, kill some NPCers, dock, log of....Yeah. There are good things, AND BAD THINGS, about regions with NPC stations. ------------------------------
Xthril Ranger	Posted - 2006.05.19 22:13:00 - [67] Originally by: Hey You Here's what I think alot of the people saying 0.0 NPC stations should be removed are missing. 1. The regions with them are much less rich with ore/complexes. Have you been to fountain? you'll never jump alone
danneh	Posted - 2006.05.19 23:04:00 - [68] I agree, with the op. Contraband Inc
Lone Bear	Posted - 2006.05.19 23:15:00 - [69] Yup why not? Let's remove NPC stations. But as we shoudnt do half the work, remove NPC sov and NPC in belts as well. And let's remove roids in thos sys as well. In fact, put some roids in Sov player sys with 2-3 officers in each belt, all other sys must be empty.
Creamster	Posted - 2006.05.19 23:45:00 - [70] Originally by: FolkoDemon ATM Stain Alliance controls region of Stain, with exception of 4GQ and 37S systems, where SE is still very active. You sir have a twisted definition for "control". You can claim control for any system until a hostile jumps in, then your guys are lucky to dock/safespot. S-A members are being hunted in Stain and those who live here have developed amazing hiding skills. Sure thing nobody's able to camp all the systems in Stain bob-style (i hope you won't argue that they had a full control of northern stain on their last visit), but you have absolutely no right to claim territory just because you happen to have carebears there. SE claims to have a dominating military presence in Stain region, however we don't wish to exterminate S-A, it's better to keep you as a big soft target for our amusement. S-A fits in perfectly :) One can comment that we don't have huge blobs marching back and forth, well it's true but we don't need them, s-a's are rarely seen in organized groups around stain, and we bring enough people to take on any gang we might encounter. ___________
Baun	Posted - 2006.05.20 00:34:00 - [71] It might be frustrating to try to remove people from NPC station 0.0 regions, but they serve their purpose. Without NPC stations, 0.0 would be completely dominated only by the people who are interested in humping POSs. This doesn't leave alot of room for the small fish in the sea. Given that neither the small groups nor the big groups can do much to control NPC station regions, it doesn't really hurt anyone since there are plenty of regions available to actually conquer and control. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Angelus X	Posted - 2006.05.20 00:41:00 - [72] mMmmmM Originally by: FolkoDemon But notice that technically we didn't lost any of our regions by hostile takeover: Omist - was given to KOS alliance, PS - Tribal Souls, Esoteria - POS and ASCN, Catch - SE gave it to FIX, and yes - I'm perfectly aware of role G invasion had in this, and how was this affected by Stain civil war - but fact remains a fact. What exactly is your point there? You trying to suggest if you guys wanted to you could have kept Estoria in the face of the G/IRON/RAZOR invasion? Erm, LOL? Originally by: dantes inferno our decision to stay in stain is not due to an inability to hold space..but due to a lack of desire. No arguments, from a personal POV, that running POS's isn't the most fun job in eve, but I'd like to see you guys having held onto Stain if it was just 3 PCS instead of NPC stations last time we came knocking. On the other side of the eve-universe.. maybe.. While I don't quite agree with the drastic changes the OP suggests, it does get annoying when you get supposed "PvP" alliances that hide in stations whenever an enemy comes knocking. I think CCP probably has the best solution on the way (I think?) with the NPC stations in 0.0 space requiring a minimum faction standing to dock/use facilities. That way the independent/small group of people determined to get into 0.0 space without interaction with large alliance entities still can, while they don't become free staging bases for gank squads away from home. ----- Angelus X - Meatshield
Crucifier	Posted - 2006.05.20 00:45:00 - [73] You can take the npc stations away from stain when i get 50billions worth in rare ores in my hangars *****
Raznarok	Posted - 2006.05.20 00:46:00 - [74] Originally by: Wild Rho I'm against. Currently unconquerable stations provide corps and alliances a foothold to begin attempts to claim space of their own. Without them it would become far far tougher to oust already established alliances. The areas around unconquerable should be less richer than more remote areas to help promote player colonisation of 0.0 and npc stations should be gathered more closer to empire leaving areas of deep 0.0 for players to colonise. /signed.
Raptorius	Posted - 2006.05.20 00:59:00 - [75] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Daxes we also have such a ****y situation in Venal where our biggest enemy is the docking button. CCP really needs to think about npc stations/systems in 0.0 and their future, something needs to change there because its simply annoying (and any proper alliance who is able and willing to do something for owning a part of space will agree to this). /signed. /signed aswell You should have to work for your space and be rewarded by only ppl u want docking there.. its like free migration atm. going from empire to 0.0 can be a steep learning curve.... but it should be imo... (it was for me)
Shiraz Merlot	Posted - 2006.05.20 01:10:00 - [76] The OP is very shortsighted. NPC stations are there to provide pirate faction agents, to support the pirate faction backstory, and to give a different political and tactical flavour to some regions - which is a GOOD thing; variety makes Eve fun. Stop whinging. Don't like Stain? Move out. This lame proposal would just reduce the content level in Eve. Doh.
Cmd Woodlouse	Posted - 2006.05.20 01:20:00 - [77] omg plz yes remove them npc stations, its getting ridiculous --------------------------------
Saavik	Posted - 2006.05.20 01:55:00 - [78] Edited by: Saavik on 20/05/2006 01:58:13 Quote: Although they are annoying sometimes, I disagree. NPC region are a place, where smaller entities have at least a chance to operate or can do their first steps. If all stations were conquerable and the same pos war rules applied, the big alliances would take the station, just because they can and it's comfortable to have a lot of stations near empire without having to build outposts etc. Small entities would have no chance at all. Big alliances would control everything. Outpost building is also no option for small entities. The bigger alliances would just let them build their outpost/cultivate the land and take the regions afterwords. Some pvp alliances just want to pvp for the territory, but don't want to invest any work to defend them or use the territory economically: Put some large towers and it's ours, now let's fight somewhere else ! Imho a change would only lead to less people in 0.0 and less diversity. 0.0 isn't only about 800+ people alliances. And large numbers, capital fleets and pos wars shouldn't be the only way to success in 0.0 anyway I agree. NPC stations on one side, have the storyline role. They belong to the pirate npc's who supposedly claim those regions. On the other hand, it gives smaller entities a chance, as mentioned above. Those of you who claim they should be removed have a very unilateral view: "they should be removed to stop griefers". Thats very funny, you consider small corps that challenge bigger alliances griefers. If you live in 0.0, you are in lawless land, where you are either strong enough to make ur own rules, live by other ppl's rules, or you die. Simple as that. If it were possible to conquer everything, then a vast part of the player base couldnt just venture out there to make it on their own. Thats not fair, dont think CCP will ever remove them. And thank them for that. And about that idea of being able to conquer the npc stations and have npc fleets trying to take down player poses... you'd all think it cool when you kill them and get good loot, but if you were to actually lose POSes to npc, you'd be crying at how bad idea it is. Funny infact as some of you mention it as exactly that.. npc trying to conquer... Not unilateral at all.... Hint: If you look carefully, all those npc stations are not in so called deep space. They are very close to empire. The richest regions are all conquerable. Dunno really what the fuss is. What i DO think is that CCP should have given way more defense possibilities for those who DO conquer space earlier in the game. ATM it isn't easy, it takes planning and resources. I think its fair, could maybe be better. I dunno. Has to be balanced of course. But i still remember a time where a 10 BS fleet could come into a region, take down an entire region's stations in a few hours just because the alliance "claiming" that space wasnt as good at combat as the invading force, or happened to not have enough people online at the time of the attack. That station ping pong sucked. THAT was something to whine about. And even so its very arguable. EDIT: Forgot to mention the most important: those regions with the NPC stations were never meant to be conquerable to begin with.
Amerame	Posted - 2006.05.20 02:13:00 - [79] I hope the 8 new regions will be empty of any infrastructure and will have higher reward than any other 0.0 space. Removing 0.0 NPC would be a bad move at this point, that would just inflate the people moving to larger alliances (because they can't stay in medium alliances and be in 0.0, going back to empire is not something people would consider), with this increase of the average size of alliance would the average size of the fleet increase, and no, the server can't manage 1000 vs 1000 player fleet battle yet. I don't think we want 3 to 5 alliances with 4 to 8k members each at this point, too many in game features and upgrade to the server are lacking at this point to remove 0.0 NPC controled. I hope that out of the 8 regions at most 1 will have NPCs stations, and that a couple will be really further from empire than any other 0.0, maybe 50 - 80 jumps from empire, but hold greater reward than any other region.
Coug	Posted - 2006.05.20 02:41:00 - [80] NPC Stations in regions setup like Stain I have no problem with. There is no high end ore's, and it benefits the entire galaxy population by giving a low risk entry into 0.0. NPC Stations in regions like Fountain are bad due to their access to high end ore and complexes. We need the former, the latter is the problem. The former makes 0.0 alot less scary for new players, and lets face it, we need new players in 0.0 over time due to player subscription attrition. There needs to always be regions in 0.0 that are the political kiddie pool of 0.0. Let people either hug their floaties or shed them once they are confidant in their swimming abilities. ----------------- ~C~
EvilFlyingMonkey	Posted - 2006.05.20 02:59:00 - [81] Umm.. can we remove rats, and complexes and make it so there is only roids out there... then it will truly be player controlled. You seem to forget the simple little fact that you live in conquered stations with belts that have stupid rats running around in the belts for no apparent reason allowing you to get rich. As for all the stain complaints, we fight where we want to fight, and take the disadvantages that come with that.. it's plain and simple. Back to the removing, why... what do we actually gain from a bunch of regions where only the certain few alliances can play... you jus want it to be more convenient for you... yes a change would change the landscape of the game, but how do you know it won't be a bad change you will regret.. your looking at what would change now, yey we get rid of all those annoying alliances in 3 secs flat, there so pathetic, but then we all come back as one big alliance, and the blobbing begins... blob after blob after blob. And for people saying that you should only be able to dock if you have good standings... yea right, i can really see that happening, lets all goto npc stations to mission *****, it's so safe out there. plus your killing it's value, missions you make crap money compared to 0.0 ratting(comes with the risk), so if you remove that.. then you get a region full of miners that will be so much fun offering so much pvp potential. As a member of stain, i am obviously pro npc stations, and therefore can be seen as biased, but my point of view is removing them only makes the game less versatile. I don't want to be involved in pos's, i don't want to have to build a outpost and have to try and defend it against the bigger blob with 1000 people 100 bubbles 50 dreads 1 titan(for the bar) and fred from tech support for node restarts. I like being in a alliance that does what the hell it likes when it likes, makes this game fun, and if it makes it worse for you, then change what your doing. you don't have to attack stain, hell there aint that much to gain from living in stain lol. meh, ranting. -------------------------------------------- ; ] Beware of the flying monkeys Only mining happens in Stain
heruloka	Posted - 2006.05.20 03:01:00 - [82] Originally by: Xthril Ranger Originally by: Hey You Here's what I think alot of the people saying 0.0 NPC stations should be removed are missing. 1. The regions with them are much less rich with ore/complexes. Have you been to fountain? fountain is a very nice region it has what 2 10/10 complexes, a few lower end complexes, all the good high end ore in enough systems to keep dozens if not 100's of miners quite happy, really nice rats, plus it has a good collection of stations right in the middle of the region scattered through a few systems. either ccp had some programmers not pay attention while furnishing fountain, or they tossed whatever was at hand when they were building stain. the only problem is you have a few alliances living there who constantly fight each other, so you have to watch your back or you WILL get ganked.
Cuebick	Posted - 2006.05.20 03:07:00 - [83] I'm surprised this post is still kind of "civil" I agree with many and I disagree with many. There are so many things to point out, but I really like some answers here I had to resize my sig
Doppleganger	Posted - 2006.05.20 03:43:00 - [84] For anyone saying the NPC stations are there for NPC pirate organization backstory then those NPCs should be working to remove those that claim their areas. You are telling me a npc faction that can put up 50+ unconquerable stations in a region can't at least strike back harder then standard gate/belt rat? For those saying it should be a jumping off point for ppl that want to get started in 0.0 is a crock. If it should be a starting point for those that want to get into 0.0 then those NPC stations should be much closer to 0.0. For ppl wanting to get their feet wet in 0.0 it should be a learning curve like joining ppl that live and breath 0.0 and be taught how things work before striking out on their own. When you are newborn do your parents just drop you off on a corner and say ok its time you learn for yourself or do they try to teach how the world works and send you some where to be educated on things. Even tho this is a game its a game of learning more then just left - left - right - triangle before you can be good in the game. 0.0 is there for the advanced players and not the noobs unless they learn quickly. Most noobs won't learn quickly unless helped by more advanced players or unless they enjoy a good brusing to learn lessons. NPC station do little for game play in 0.0 unless those that own the stations (NPCs) will make your life hell for trying to live there or claim it Unless you got uber skills in kissing their butts or have aligned yourself with them some how. Quote: All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time. - Lieutenant General Lewis B.'Chesty' Puller
Lord Spidey	Posted - 2006.05.20 04:13:00 - [85] WE have a small corp in 0.0 that lives out of a lovely 0.0 station in ***(location classafied) and I must say i personally prefer it that way instead of the hustle and bustle of alliance life or life around an alliance station. I DO agree however that we could do wtih less npc stations and make much more action in and around them
Masta Killa	Posted - 2006.05.20 05:07:00 - [86] obviously a bob alt thread ps post with your mains --------------------------------------
Body Count	Posted - 2006.05.20 05:47:00 - [87] I like the npc stations. It gives small corps and alliances a shot. If it was all conquerable stations the entirety of 0.0 would be controlled by 2 or 3 blobs. You either join up with one of them or you have nowhere to dock. This gives anyone a chance to go out to 0.0, rat and run missions. Sorry if you're ****ed that you can't keep other players from having fun in 0.0 This way it's better for everyone. Your way is only good if you're one of the ruling blobs.
Coranor	Posted - 2006.05.20 05:55:00 - [88] You can't remove all the npc stations. They provide a bit of depth to the backstory of the universe. You could make them all conquerable but that again messes with the backstory. I mean these npc factions are supposed to be fairly powerful things so to make all their stations conquerable and see people grabbing them would be fairly strange I think. Lets be honest they are needed for lets call it entry level 0.0, 0.0 space on easy mode so to speak. It lets small groups get a start in 0.0 space lets them get a taste of whats ahead of them if they choose to venture further out into the wild. Syndicate and Pure Blind are perfect examples really. Full of small scale pvp corps and small alliances that would'nt be able to hold on to a conquerable station against any kind of real assault. The solution is maybe slightly mundane and has been mentioned here before iirc. Make them like border regions to the empires. An extension onto low sec space instead of leaving them in deep space. This leaves the likes of Stain and Venal a little less forboding and a little more inviting to smaller corps to settle in there and carve out a nich for themselves. Move the sansha stations to Catch and the Guristas stations to Tribute and you got yourself a well set up areas in what is imo the two main problem regions here. Now move the fountain conquerables up close to d4ku and you're laughing. All the station holding npc factions are bordering low sec space and providing a far more encouraging entrance to 0.0 space for new players. Make sure the ores stay at basic levels, knock back the npc's a bit and make sure all the high level complexes are in different regions and you provide that next step into conquerable station regions. Those who're ready to take that next step will gradually find themselves drawn out further into the fully conquerable regions. --------------
CopeLand	Posted - 2006.05.20 06:48:00 - [89] Originally by: Azmodaus In a virtual world where there are no social consequences for our actions our true selves are revieled. Burn in hell SA, your day will come. you sound like a very intelligent person, in good control of yourself, exactly the type of person we would like to be developing the game, a person capable of holding a perspective and making constructive non-personal comments on the game as a whole
Vishnej	Posted - 2006.05.20 06:48:00 - [90] Edited by: Vishnej on 20/05/2006 06:49:14 I like the 8 new regions - ore, rats, but no stations whatsoever. You want a place to dock, you build an outpost and battle the thousand people living out of POSes. There's room in the world for NPC stations, but there's also room for a good bit of space that never sees their influence.

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