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Oltha Olacar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
   |
Posted - 2014.04.28 18:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all,
So, as i understand it, there are dedicated scanning frigates and the co-ops ships. As I'm amarr, i'll be looking to use the amarr varients.
Now, i'd eventually like to get into low/null sec exploration, my question is, where to go after the co-ops ship? Is that the best you can do? I was looking at the Pilgrim as it can use the T2 cloak, is that advisable or would it be better to go straight to the T3 for low/null?
If you would be kind enough to provide fittings so I can get skill trainings worked out, that would be ideal.
Thanks in advance |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
470
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Depends on what you understand by "exploration".
If you only mean Data and Relic sites, a CovOp does just fine, as there's no combat. And for null sites you really do want a bonused ship for the +10 virus strength, so no Pilgrim. In case that you do want some firepower to kill/drive off other explorers (while still running sites), look into the SoE ships.
If you mean combat sites, a T3 is it. |
Oltha Olacar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 20:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah, i'm meaning data/relic sites to start with, i'm not to familiar with the other sites to know what they entail.
yeah, i'm worried about getting jumped on in low/null when i'm playing the mini game, so I would like a ship that can defend itself if I get engaged while in the site, so is there any fits for the SOE that will enable me to do this? I'm not interested in killing the person that jumps me, only getting away.
|
Nalelmir Ahashion
Omegon 42nd Core
325
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
few things,
First of all I tried some exploration and the basic of it is to discover hidden places or random places in which you can do stuff.
You got anomalies > this type of site can be discovered just by opening the scanner, if anomaly is on the scanner you can warp to it immediately.
Types of anomalies: Ore\ice (for mining.. nothing to see here unless u are a miner), combat site > this anomalies got named rat type and some sort of "rank" to them, Ghost site > it's like relic\data site you can use any of the analyzers to hack them.. catch is once you fail the hacking mini game rats will spawn and attack you and once you warp inside the site a countdown will start which in the end of it huge damage AOE will trigger in the site.
Other type is signatures, for this sites you need probe launcher and to scan their location in order to warp into them, at any rate even if you don't want to do them yourself you can sell their bookmarked location on local or to people you know.
Types of signatures:
Wormhole: an entrence to unique type of space, might be populated and you need to know what you're doing here so read about them first but mostly you'll ignore them.
Relic\Data sites: no rats, but you got number of container in which you'll need to win hack minigame in order to access into, once successful you need to "catch" the loot which spew out in all directions. Use cargo scanner to see what's inside before you hack in order to pick right loot to grab.
Combat site: DED ranks 1\10 to 10\10.. bigger the rank the bigger the challenge and loot. lot to read about those also got escalations and such (can get escalations on anomalies as well).
If you only do anomalies for combat you can use any combat ship without special fit...
if you want to do data\relic sites then shield tank ships pretty much problematic due to the fact you need med slot for this 2 modules and you'll want cargo scanner as well so not much tank.
If you want to do all kind of sites I've found armor tanked drone ships are great! especially vexor navy issue... can use cloak\data-relic\probe launcher and drones for all else. also you can use low slots for tanking.
Also might want to get SoE Probe launcher and probes as they make scanning much easier.
Regarding low\null that's whole different cake... you'll need to learn some pvp tactics check local chat and do some other stuff as well.
my humble 2 isk from my short exploration experience.
"What's worse than a foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother? A foul-mouthed eight-year-old constantly claiming he's had relations with your mother who thinks he's a gangser, that's what."
--áAaron Birch |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
165
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 22:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Your main problem will be that the ganker will see you (decloaked while doing the mini-game) but you probably won't see him - he'll remain cloaked until he's within 2km of you.
That's a problem because he will always engage on his terms. For example, if you fit a Stratios, he'll bring a Proteus + a couple of friends standing by in the system next door. You would lose a 400mil ship for hacking a can worth on avg a couple mil.
So imo you should 1) fly cheap 2) maximise gtfo-ability over everything else.
In practice:
. Consider t1 frigs if you don't need covops cloak and extra virus strength
. Drop off loot after every site, either in a station or in a secure container in a safespot
. Fit for agility (t1 frigs are much better than covops), warp away asap. Remember all ships except stealth bombers have 5+ seconds targeting delay after decloaking + a couple seconds lock time
. Alternatively, fit warp stabs. But you need 4 and the lock-time penalty is a PITA for locking cans in sites
. Carry ecm drones
. Especially in null, do not do sites unless you're alone in local
I know all this isn't very manly, but if you're planning to do data/relic sites it's really the most effective way!
Otherwise, you'd just have to pretty much fit a fully-capable solo pvp ship, but that's not easy if you also need your explo modules. |
Oltha Olacar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 09:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
so a good rule of thumb to go by when in low/null, only run sites when alone in system, warp to a safe spot and sit cloaked until they go away or jump out of system and come back later, keep cargo as empty as possible and fit for being able to get out quick, is that about right?
Also would you be able to recommend a T1 and cov-ops fit? as i'm rubbish at fitting ships, even in EFT |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
166
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 10:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oltha Olacar wrote:so a good rule of thumb to go by when in low/null, only run sites when alone in system, warp to a safe spot and sit cloaked until they go away or jump out of system and come back later, keep cargo as empty as possible and fit for being able to get out quick, is that about right?
Also would you be able to recommend a T1 and cov-ops fit? as i'm rubbish at fitting ships, even in EFT
That's what I would do, yes.
The 'being alone in local' part is important in null, because in my experience cloaky hunting is quite common there.
In low, I wouldn't care much, because 1) in most systems, you'll rarely be completely alone anyway, so it wouldn't be very practical 2) since lowsec is more populated, it's much easier to find pvp (at gates, in fw plexes, ...) so most pirates won't bother to scan down relic/data sites.
Also, learn to dscan. My advice was to try to avoid cloaky hunters. You can see the non-cloaky ones on dscan before they land on grid, so getting out is much easier. Also, given that data/relic sites are pretty large, it will be very rare for somebody warping to the site to land on top of you. Whereas a cloaky hunter will 'sneak up' until he's right next to you.
Not on my PC now, but if you tell me which race you prefer (if any), I'll post a couple of fits later. |
Oltha Olacar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 10:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
I prefer amarr, i love the design and look of there ships |
Froggy Storm
The Praxis Initiative
Gentlemen's Agreement
214
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 11:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
The amarr covops is a thing of beauty. So much nicer than the cheetah.
For sticking to data/relic sites in high/low any old ship will really do. With the addition of the probe modules any ship can scan out most sites. That said, you will want the specialized explorer ships (Magnate/Anathema) because of the virus str. Without the bonus to bring your total up to the max the hardest cans will be much harder.
Eventually though you will get caught. It a common habit for cloaky combat frigs to scan out a relic site and just wait for the targets to come to them. So the cheaper you fly the less you have to lose. Mastery of the MWD/Cloak trick, for example, will give you almost all the ups of using an anathema with out the cost. But then again who wouldn't want that black and silver ship.
None of those apply to the combat sites obviously. For those most people will suggest ish tengu or both. Some of the very top ninja exploration players use teams of sins as well. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
169
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 16:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Magnate:
3x Local Hull Conversion Inertia Stabilizers I
Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation
Limited 1 MN Microwarpdrive I
Data Analyzer I
Relic Analyzer I
Improved Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcer I, 8x Core Scanner Probe I
2x Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
3x Hornet EC-300 (ECM drones)
The signal amplifier speeds up lock times on cans, I can't think of anything else useful for that 4th midslot.
You COULD fit 4x 'Halcyon' Core Equalizer I (warp stabs) BUT 1) longer lock times are a total PITA 2) some dedicated hunters will have more than 2 warp scramblers anyway...
Use T2 Analyzers if you can. Not really necessary in lowsec, but they help a lot with the harder nullsec minigames.
Use Sisters Scanner Probes for higher scan strength, 4Mil for 8. Don't use Sisters Core Probe Launcher or your ship won't be cheap anymore :)
You can switch the scan strength rigs for 'minigame' rigs ('Memetic Algorithm Bank' and 'Emission Scope Sharpener'). You could also use Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizers to warp faster (won't help survivability, but you'll travel faster).
2.2 seconds align (warp-out) time with max skills, should be quick enough to GTFO before getting locked. Inertia stabs increase your sig radius, but your objective is to warp out BEFORE they can even START locking you.
Use MWD+cloak to avoid gatecamps in lowsec. If you don't mind some risk on gates, switch cloak to T1 and save ISK; your fast align time MAY save you anyway (or maybe not  ).
Fit has no tank, but if you're caught it wouldn't make any difference 
The drones have a VERY slim chance of saving you if you get pointed, but they're cheap, you can always try!
Anathema:
3x Local Hull Conversion Inertia Stabilizers I
Limited 1 MN Microwarpdrive I
Data Analyzer I
Relic Analyzer I
PL-0 Shipment Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcer I, 8x Core Scanner Probe I
2x Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Same considerations as above on analyzers, probes, rigs, etc.
Your align (warp-out) time is now 3.1 seconds. Not bad, but that extra second could sometimes make the difference :)
The additional cargo scanner lets you check cans to assess possible loot.
CovOps cloak is very useful to evade bubbles in nullsec.
Above all, realize that you WILL lose a few ships, don't fuss about it, give a gf in local and grab another one!
Welcome to lowsec and happy exploring |
Viserys Anstian
Wayward Chickens
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 18:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Your main problem will be that the ganker will see you (decloaked while doing the mini-game) but you probably won't see him - he'll remain cloaked until he's within 2km of you.
That's a problem because he will always engage on his terms. For example, if you fit a Stratios, he'll bring a Proteus + a couple of friends standing by in the system next door. You would lose a 400mil ship for hacking a can worth on avg a couple mil.
So imo you should 1) fly cheap 2) maximise gtfo-ability over everything else.
In practice:
. Consider t1 frigs if you don't need covops cloak and extra virus strength
. Drop off loot after every site, either in a station or in a secure container in a safespot
. Fit for agility (t1 frigs are much better than covops), warp away asap. Remember all ships except stealth bombers have 5+ seconds targeting delay after decloaking + a couple seconds lock time
. Alternatively, fit warp stabs. But you need 4 and the lock-time penalty is a PITA for locking cans in sites
. Carry ecm drones
. Especially in null, do not do sites unless you're alone in local
I know all this isn't very manly, but if you're planning to do data/relic sites it's really the most effective way!
Otherwise, you'd just have to pretty much fit a fully-capable solo pvp ship, but that's not easy if you also need your explo modules.
All points are good advice.
If you are doing data/relic, just go with a T1 or a Cov Ops. T1 has the advantage of being cheap. I used to buy 10 Probes at a time and have them shipped with the equipment to my main exploration hub. At around 5M Isk per probe (can't remember) usually one site in low sec paid for the ship. Just don't do like I did (more than once) and fly around with 100M of loot going for one more can only to get popped.
Expect you'll lose the T1 frequently.
Stay 3000m from the can (if you have the ability to cloak).
Everytime you click a in the minigame, hit DCAN. Look for combat probes or a ship coming in if you see anything, cloak up or run. Right before you blow the can up, check D SCAN again. If clear, move in closer prior to the last attack on the core.
If you find a site with just 1-2 cans left, leave the site alone. It's most likely been bookmarked by an explorer hunter and they probably know you are there or will be coming by the site shortly.
I build my explorers around quick align and jumps.
Probe with ECM drones is a hard ship to catch.
Gotta remember, if they've hunted you down, they already think they can take you, so don't try to defend. Just Run.
|
Horus H'kaan
Grand Theft Enyo
14
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 19:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
I honestly don't think using Inertia Stabs will save you from a rocket bomber - they have no targeting delay and a reduced lock time on you thanks to the i-stabs. Even if you warp away immediately upon seeing one decloak - which is highly unlikely given how distracting the process of hacking can be - you're probably gonna get locked, scrammed, and popped. You're better off chancing the 4 warp core stabilizers in the lows. The only time I've had an explorer get away from me he was flying a quad-stabbed Magnate. I triple scram my Manticore now because of it, but not everyone does.
If you're dead set on reducing align time rather than relying on warp stabs, I'd recommend nanofiber internal structures over i-stabs. They don't decrease the aggressor's lock time, although they do offer less of an align time bonus than i-stabs do. They also reduce your hull hitpoints, but that's a redundant point since if they catch you you're dead either way.
I'd only recommend using the cov-ops Frigates in 0.0, you really don't need them for lowsec sites. Definitely give the Magnate a whirl. It's the best looking of the 4 empire T1 exploration frigates and it does the job well.
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |
ChromeStriker
Chrome Exploration
720
|
Posted - 2014.04.30 08:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
[Anathema, Null Data-relic]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Warp Core Stabilizer II
1MN Microwarpdrive II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II
Cargo Scanner II
[empty high slot]
Core Probe Launcher II, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
If your in safe(ish) space id swap the Stab for a cargo expander. Otherwise this is pretty optimal for null work.
I upgraded to a Statios after a few good hauls which allowed for bigger cargo, and the ability to change out and do some of the easier combat sites.
Nulla Curas |
kingduckling
The Swamp Dwellers
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.02 15:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Most people here got it right.
If you do not have tech 2 hacking modules you will need either a tech 2 frigate or a astero the +5 extra virus strength will be extremely good.Tech 1 ships with t1 modules will not cut because you will need more luck that better decision making at the minigame.
Also if you are not doing invetion you want to skip data site because they take to much space*but you should scan them down and cargo scan each container to see if there are any valuable bpcs like tower and Pos modules.
Nullsec is empty 90% of the time.
And relic sites are the big cheese in null way better than data sites in value and in the space they take in your inventory.
Also in null there will be a huge amount of salvage you might wanna invest in a slot 10 implant that increases the life of the Spew containers. |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
249
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
All lo slot fit variations here are pointless and the single stab versions are laughable. Your only security is to cloak up and wait if there is an unknown in the system. Having stabs will destroy your situational awareness. I carry a faction and standard scram and collect stabs from wrecks, 4 at a time. Its a **** job but someones got to do it. |
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
249
|
Posted - 2014.05.13 22:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
All lo slot fit variations here are pointless and the single stab versions are laughable. Your only security is to cloak up and wait if there is an unknown in the system. Having stabs will destroy your situational awareness. I carry a faction and standard scram and collect stabs from wrecks, 4 at a time. Its a **** job but someone's got to do it. |
ChromeStriker
0ne Percent.
Odin's Call
723
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 07:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zen Dad wrote:All lo slot fit variations here are pointless and the single stab versions are laughable. Your only security is to cloak up and wait if there is an unknown in the system. Having stabs will destroy your situational awareness. I carry a faction and standard scram and collect stabs from wrecks, 4 at a time. Its a **** job but someone's got to do it.
Stabs dont kill people, complacincy does. A single stab helps, and lets be honest, its only there because what the hell else would you have? It might even save you lol
No Worries |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
262
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 07:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Zen Dad wrote:All lo slot fit variations here are pointless and the single stab versions are laughable. Your only security is to cloak up and wait if there is an unknown in the system. Having stabs will destroy your situational awareness. I carry a faction and standard scram and collect stabs from wrecks, 4 at a time. Its a **** job but someone's got to do it. Stabs dont kill people, complacincy does. A single stab helps, and lets be honest, its only there because what the hell else would you have? It might even save you lol
Stabs increase lock time, so you'll spend more time in sites, so you're more vulnerable. |
ChromeStriker
0ne Percent.
Odin's Call
723
|
Posted - 2014.05.14 10:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:Zen Dad wrote:All lo slot fit variations here are pointless and the single stab versions are laughable. Your only security is to cloak up and wait if there is an unknown in the system. Having stabs will destroy your situational awareness. I carry a faction and standard scram and collect stabs from wrecks, 4 at a time. Its a **** job but someone's got to do it. Stabs dont kill people, complacincy does. A single stab helps, and lets be honest, its only there because what the hell else would you have? It might even save you lol Stabs increase lock time, so you'll spend more time in sites, so you're more vulnerable.
In the form of a few seconds in a frig... you can be in a site 10seconds or a few min. It makes little differance if your doing sites with peeps in local lol.
And it only effects locking the first container... after that you just lock up all the rest anyway... or do it whilst traveling to the container...
No Worries |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland
Test Alliance Please Ignore
684
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 21:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
My experience is that nul renters don't typically come after covops frigates running data/relic sites. But I have had people in interceptors try to chase me system-to-system.
Get very good at hacking so as to minimize your time uncloaked. I've run plenty of sites with people in local, even in station systems. People mostly dock up because you're in their ratting system and they don't want to get hot-dropped.
Getting a virus strength of 40 is very important. It will let you literally blast through some of the easier nul containers in seconds.
Use a covops frigate unless you intent to run Ghost Sites. In that case, you really should use a Stratios or T3.
GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
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