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Lou Kaway Trans Suns Mining Armored Atomics 0	Posted - 2014.04.29 12:20:00 - [1] - Quote I have been playing in Hi-sec for a while now mainly trading out of Jita and have only just noticed the mastery on ships. In 53 days I will be able to have mastery lvl 5 on a charon. How important is it to gain mastery lvl's on different ships (I plan to use an alt to go into low and null secs) and is it worth aiming for lvl 5 mastery or would a lower lvl mastery be beneficial? Also what sort of difference would say a lvl 3 mastery battleship would I be expected to see against one with no mastery lvl?
erg cz Sliperer 62	Posted - 2014.04.29 12:33:00 - [2] - Quote Lou Kaway wrote: How important is it to gain mastery lvl's on different ships (I plan to use an alt to go into low and null secs) and is it worth aiming for lvl 5 mastery or would a lower lvl mastery be beneficial? no, yes. Lou Kaway wrote: Also what sort of difference would say a lvl 3 mastery battleship would I be expected to see against one with no mastery lvl? exactly 8,32 %.
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 375	Posted - 2014.04.29 12:47:00 - [3] - Quote Lou Kaway wrote: I have been playing in Hi-sec for a while now mainly trading out of Jita and have only just noticed the mastery on ships. In 53 days I will be able to have mastery lvl 5 on a charon. How important is it to gain mastery lvl's on different ships (I plan to use an alt to go into low and null secs) and is it worth aiming for lvl 5 mastery or would a lower lvl mastery be beneficial? Also what sort of difference would say a lvl 3 mastery battleship would I be expected to see against one with no mastery lvl? Go to LS/null in a frigate not a BS. Mastery itself is like any certification, it doesn't do anything itself, it just looks nice on a wall or might look good to your employer. PvP encounters are normally asymmetrical, and the paper benefits of raising any given skill from a 3 to a 5 are usually outweighed by player ship handling skills or the disparity in ship numbers on each side. BS V is worth nothing if you get scanned down by 5 frigates that know what they are doing. I've found that raising a skill from a 4 to a 5 is usually not the difference between winning or losing a given encounter. It might be the difference between winning, holding, or losing the encounter before help arrives-- not necessarily help for YOU. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook
Viserys Anstian Wayward Chickens 9	Posted - 2014.04.29 13:46:00 - [4] - Quote Agree, don't go into LS or Null with a BS unless you have an escort. I use the mastery mostly as a basic road map. Some skills I will ignore, others I won't. I look at the relative impact. For instance, to get lvl 3 mastery on my Legion, I 'need' drone durability to lvl 4 and some missile skills to 4 that I don't have. Now with my Legion fits that I run, I don't use drones or missiles, so why go after those skills just for a certification?
Lou Kaway Trans Suns Mining Armored Atomics 0	Posted - 2014.04.29 14:47:00 - [5] - Quote Ok thanks for the replies Viserys Anstian and Iria Ahrens given both a like. Thanks also erg cz
Jai Centarium Anqara Expeditions 23	Posted - 2014.04.29 17:51:00 - [6] - Quote Mastery levels were written by a drunk chimpanzee. Don't waste your time. Case in point: Drake masteries. Just train based on what area you want to improve. Need more DPS? Gunnery skills. Need more tank? Shields/Armor skills. Also, if you post here where in lowsec you're going in your BS and when you're making the trip, it'll count as a flag of truce and pirates won't be able to attack you. I'm a little teapot, short and stout.
Lors Dornick Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet 1085	Posted - 2014.04.29 21:21:00 - [7] - Quote Jai Centarium wrote: Mastery levels were written by a drunk chimpanzee. Don't waste your time. Case in point: Drake masteries. Just train based on what area you want to improve. Need more DPS? Gunnery skills. Need more tank? Shields/Armor skills. Also, if you post here where in lowsec you're going in your BS and when you're making the trip, it'll count as a flag of truce and pirates won't be able to attack you. A true statement but with a little twist. The Mastery levels (as was certificates before) is written based on using every style/system/possibility a certain hull has. They are best used as a guide to what skills you might need, not as a requirement to use a hull the way you want. Read the descriptions on the skills you're missing for a level and make your own decision if it's worth it. And while the listed skills can be bit strange, it's better then reading descriptions of all available skills and deciding if you want them ... CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Sabriz Adoudel Mission BLITZ 2762	Posted - 2014.04.30 02:31:00 - [8] - Quote Mastery levels are a broad guideline and are somewhat useful to the clueless but that is about it. They try to give a broad cross-section of skills that will help in the use of a given ship, but what you are using it for might require different skills. Case in point: I have pretty decent skill with the Ishtar and (I believe) I am 2 short train skills away from level 4 mastery of the hull. However, I simply cannot fit or use any shield tanked Ishtar fit, despite those being very good for some purposes (mostly soloing level 5 security missions or other PVE content where you suffer a lot of energy neutralization). Likewise, I know someone that is training into carriers, but for a specific purpose only (the "suitcase carrier") and they intend to utterly ignore all of the usual things a carrier pilot would normally train (triage module, capital remote reps, tech 2 sentry drones, capital turrets, etc). Set the universe on fire - then sell the survivors ash. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com.
Lost Greybeard Blackjack. TITANS. 541	Posted - 2014.04.30 07:54:00 - [9] - Quote Mastery level 1 or 2 is probably worth doing blind (i.e. just do all the skills without thinking about it too much) for most ships that you actually intend to fly around a lot. Above that, look at the specific skills and what they do and pick the ones that you know will help you or are important. Most people have all the qualifiers for Mastery 5 save for one or two skills before they even get mastery 3, simply because those last couple skills aren't particularly useful. And no, it doesn't give you anything special to get masteries, it only gives you what the stats say.
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting Advanced Amateurs 1266	Posted - 2014.04.30 14:18:00 - [10] - Quote The Mastery system (and ISIS as a whole) is quite new and in it's current state Mastery levels often include many redundant skills. For example, the Heavy Drone skills on Battleships are understandable, but you might just as well train Sentries instead. I know many BS pilots that don't have Heavy Drones trained, nor do they have any reason to apart from Mastery OCD.

Petrus Blackshell Derelict Rifter Enterprise 3107	Posted - 2014.04.30 15:16:00 - [11] - Quote Viserys Anstian wrote: Agree, don't go into LS or Null with a BS unless you have an escort. Poppycock. Don't go into low/null with a BS unless you have an escort or you are prepared otherwise to defend yourself when you are attacked. BS might be slow and clunky, but that does not mean they're helpless. Source: I semi-regularly roam in solo BS in lowsec and nullsec, with decent success rates. That said, I would advise new players to stay away from battleships for at least their first 5-6 months. The amount of both skill points and personal knowledge required to "properly" take advantage of a battleship simply means that in most tasks, a new player would be better off either using a smaller ship, or working with some friends. Jumping into a battleship too early can make the game dull, frustrating, or just end up in an expensive lossmail. Anyway, on to the actual question. Mastery levels are bullshit. They make for nice bragging rights, but that's it. I have been flying combat frigates for years, and can take advantage of all their ins and outs, and yet I do not have mastery 5 for any of them. I might have mastery 4 for a couple, but that's it. Many of the required skills for the higher tiers do not actually meaningfully benefit the ship in 99% of instances. So... don't sweat it. On the other hand, the skills listed in masteries do all impact your ship in some way, and certain ones impact it in very important ways. Do your research, or ask an experienced friend: what part of these masteries should I focus on? For example, Tactical Shields Manipulation V is useless, but training it to IV is fairly critical (so you can fit T2 Invulnerability Fields). Also, if it's listed for a ship that you prefer to armor tank (say, the Slasher or Bellicose), forget about it. Rifterlings - newbie-friendly swashbuckling corp ("weflyrifters" in-game channel). Join today! www.rifterlings.com Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com
Iria Ahrens Space Perverts and Forum Pirates 377	Posted - 2014.04.30 19:33:00 - [12] - Quote Well, I mainly advise newbies to stay out of LS in a BS because of the expense. Because you disdained all my counsel, and my reproof you ignoredGÇö I, in my turn, will laugh at your doom; will mock when terror overtakes you; -- Ultimate Griefer's Handbook
Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 242	Posted - 2014.04.30 20:11:00 - [13] - Quote Speaking of masteries thy actually do seem to be better thought out then the old certificate system, however there are some odd quirks such as the Moros (a dreadnought) requiring a mastery for sensor integrity when the said ship is only ever used equipped with a siege module (immunity to all e-war modules) which obviously makes the requirement rather odd. However as previous posters have stated treat the masteries as a road amp not a goal on it self.
Sabriz Adoudel Mission BLITZ 2769	Posted - 2014.04.30 21:42:00 - [14] - Quote Inxentas Ultramar wrote: The Mastery system (and ISIS as a whole) is quite new and in it's current state Mastery levels often include many redundant skills. For example, the Heavy Drone skills on Battleships are understandable, but you might just as well train Sentries instead. I know many BS pilots that don't have Heavy Drones trained, nor do they have any reason to apart from Mastery OCD. Close range battleships want heavy drones over sentries for sure. Sentries are beyond terrible at ranges under 10km, while heavies are extremely good at that range. As most battleships do have a point-blank weapons system available to them and that weapons system (say blasters) is reflected in the masteries, so too should the close-range drones. Set the universe on fire - then sell the survivors ash. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com.
Slade Trillgon Brutor Force Federated 2767	Posted - 2014.04.30 23:11:00 - [15] - Quote Jai Centarium wrote: Also, if you post here where in lowsec you're going in your BS and when you're making the trip, it'll count as a flag of truce and pirates won't be able to attack you. As I am a nice guy and this is the New Citizens forum I will say please disregard this part of Jai's post. Ignore me at your own risk
Sabriz Adoudel Mission BLITZ 2770	Posted - 2014.04.30 23:21:00 - [16] - Quote Just a little more on why you shouldn't go into low or null in a battleship in general. (There are exceptions) A frigate can pick its fights. If I'm in a frigate and see a destroyer, I can run. If I'm in a frigate and see an attack battlecruiser, I can attack it. Some things can catch a frigate but not many. The BS does not have this luxury. It can't flee anything - not the cruiser that it will (usually) melt, nor the rookie ship with a cynosural field generator, nor the stealth bomber pack that will slaughter it. Set the universe on fire - then sell the survivors ash. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com.
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting Advanced Amateurs 1267	Posted - 2014.05.01 08:12:00 - [17] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Inxentas Ultramar wrote: The Mastery system (and ISIS as a whole) is quite new and in it's current state Mastery levels often include many redundant skills. For example, the Heavy Drone skills on Battleships are understandable, but you might just as well train Sentries instead. I know many BS pilots that don't have Heavy Drones trained, nor do they have any reason to apart from Mastery OCD. Close range battleships want heavy drones over sentries for sure. Sentries are beyond terrible at ranges under 10km, while heavies are extremely good at that range. As most battleships do have a point-blank weapons system available to them and that weapons system (say blasters) is reflected in the masteries, so too should the close-range drones. Maybe not the best example, I admit, because training both would increase your overall flexibility in BS hulls. I gave this example because I have mastery 0 in a few hulls due to not having all skills trained, but I still fly those ships effectively. These skills are relevant to modules and drones I currently do not fit on the ship. I'm just as effective in a ship of which I have higher mastery levels, but I have less flexibility in fitting. Concrete example: I can fly and fit a fullly T2-fitted Torp Typhoon but I have no Cruise Missile Skills yet. I end up having mastery level 0 because of this. In no way does this prevent me from using a Torp Phoon if it is more appropriate then say a Tempest, for which I have actual mastery levels. There was some other example where someone had a level of mastery requiring him to train into being able to lock more ships then the actual ship hull could. That's where it becomes over-redundant.
Cronos Decendum School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 5	Posted - 2014.05.02 14:42:00 - [18] - Quote Masteries are cool. When you have them all at V you know you can get a 100% out of your hull. It all depends on your piloting from there. Some fossils may tell you different but that's the way it is in the end.


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