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Star Wars Casting: Where are the Women ??

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Ian Morbius 6	Posted - 2014.05.02 22:35:00 - [61] - Quote Always liked Gena Rowlands as Gloria Swenson in Gloria (1980). One hard ex-mistress of a mobster. www.acronymfinder.com - For when companies allow engineers to create surveys for their customers.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1261	Posted - 2014.05.02 23:19:00 - [62] - Quote Angelique Duchemin wrote: As for credible female protagonists. Has there been one since Fargo? What about Leela or Amy Wong from Futurama? Angelique Duchemin wrote: The Bechdel test is overrated. At best a curiosity. The Bechdel Test is frequently misunderstood. Movies that pass it aren't necessarily gender-equal. Both Anchorman movies pass the Bechdel test, for instance. It's extremely easy to pass it. The point it makes is that any movie that fails the test without a really good reason is filled to the brim with masculist garbage. The most common exceptions are movies with too few characters to require two women to have dialogue with each other. Alien passes, but only barely. There are only two women (7 characters total), and one of the women (Lambert) doesn't talk much at all. At one point she lunges at Ripley and screams "You b+¡tch!!!" which right there passes all 3 clauses of the Bechdel Test. So it doesn't take much. But the rest of the movie gets a pass because it has very little character development due to its focus on the alien, not the characters. What about JJ Abrams' Star Trek movies? They have lots of characters, and lots of character development. The focus is constantly on the characters and how they interact with each other. The characters are constantly having conversations with each other. The movie would pass the reverse Bechdel test dozens of times throughout the entire thing. But does it pass the Bechdel test? Debatably. Uhura's roommate is named (Gaila), and they talk about a Klingon transmission. This is while Kirk is naked under the bed, hiding. Knowing Kirk is watching, Uhura strips down to her underwear while talking to Gaila. What about the rest of the movie? Nope. What about Into Darkness? Nope. Slade Trillgon wrote: You want strong female lead you say. I present to you one of the strongest female leads in my mind I spit on your grave. remiscent of Uma Thurman's character in Kill Bill Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Sibyyl 619	Posted - 2014.05.03 00:30:00 - [63] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Girls are even a higher percentage of game players than men, for God's sake. Is this really true? As far as I know from mumble I've been the only girl in fleets I've participated in, except for one. Or maybe EVE isn't representative of this statistic? (Or maybe I haven't been in enough fleets..) Quote: BTW, the yammering about this particular point has overshadowed everything else about the announcements earlier in the week. Everyone was just really surprised about the paltry female casting. I don't know how useful the yammering is. I don't think that a creative process should be hijacked by a requirement for gender equity. Gender equity is not a requirement for a good story (which should be Abrams's primary goal). For example, Seven Samurai and Rashomon are two of my favorite films and neither have any women of significance. Neither would be made any better by trying to shoehorn a strong female lead/support in. You can't force a writer to create a good female character. I think that if it's forced, the quality of the character may not be something we wanted to see anyway. I don't think anyone mentioned Geena Davis from Cutthroat Island and Long Kiss Goodnight. I think she's awesome. Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI
Webvan All Kill No Skill 2884	Posted - 2014.05.03 01:39:00 - [64] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Webvan wrote: I'm sure that they have binders of women. In walks Lindsay Lohan. In walks Miley Cyrus. In walks Jennifer Love Hewitt. In walks Britney Spears. Welcome to yet another Disney movie! None of these was ever in a Disney film, except Lindsay Lohan in the rather good "Freaky Friday" remake with Jamie Lee Curtis. Like the original with Jodie Foster, a great kid's film with a cast led by 2 women (well, one woman and one girl). They were all connected to Disney. So, you have extra tabs in your binders... I'm not impressed. I ignore the tabs and retain equal opportunity across the board if they can fit a position. Men, women, and all the little details that make people seem different. I just don't blare it out from atop the mountain to get people to think I care. It's usually the people that do that - that are the ones that really don't care. Always the contradiction when you look deeper. Then there are of course those that just accept and follow, but usually something going on under the surface nonetheless. When it's pushed to some form of pissing contest to whom cares the most, usually the individuals needing the most caring are dispensed with and forgotten, really. If you want to make change, you do it in your own world, you walk the talk and set an example by your own actions. What other people do, that's their own problems.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1261	Posted - 2014.05.03 02:17:00 - [65] - Quote I thinkt he thing people hate most about Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, Jennifer Love Hewitt, and Miley Cyrus are that they are strong women who control their own destiny. The patriarchy doesn't like that. It wants only fake strong women who act tough but rely on men every step of the way, like Natalie Portman, Charlize Theron, Reese Witherspoon, and Angelina Jolie. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Sibyyl 623	Posted - 2014.05.03 02:41:00 - [66] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: I thinkt he thing people hate most about Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, Jennifer Love Hewitt, and Miley Cyrus are that they are strong women who control their own destiny. The patriarchy doesn't like that. It wants only fake strong women who act tough but rely on men every step of the way, like Natalie Portman, Charlize Theron, Reese Witherspoon, and Angelina Jolie. I don't think there's anything fake or weak about relying on men. It's a very human thing to do and it shouldn't detract from how tough a person might be. Million Dollar Baby is a good example of interdependence between two very tough characters. I think what people hate about Britney, Lindsay, Jennifer, and Miley is that they don't contribute anything particularly unique or amazing to their chosen professions. People always have the right to produce garbage as art.. no one should ever restrict it, but the Mr. Brainwash's of the world will unfortunately always overshadow the Banksys or Shepard Faireys. Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1261	Posted - 2014.05.03 02:45:00 - [67] - Quote I didn't say there was anything weak about relying on men, and I didn't mean to suggest that either. But the fact is that the patriarchy wants women to rely on specifically men, and so when women don't rely on men, they are hated, despised, and persecuted. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 9491	Posted - 2014.05.03 04:26:00 - [68] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Neither would be made any better by trying to shoehorn a strong female lead/support in. You can't force a writer to create a good female character. I think that if it's forced, the quality of the character may not be something we wanted to see anyway. Of course the entire reason for this is because society doesn't equip authors to actually write decent female characters. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 9491	Posted - 2014.05.03 04:27:00 - [69] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Marsha Mallow wrote: In a sense complaining about a lack of female stars actually smacks of "we need moar eye-candy" and is a bit insulting. People want women (and minorities by extension) to have fair representation in film. They don't. It has nothing to do with "eye candy" and if it were then movies would be completely dominated by women. Whenever people try and tell me that "people want this" about that kind of thing (typically while trying to say the Wonder Woman movie should ever see daylight), I point them at Catwoman. Nuff said. People who aren't sexist*. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
Webvan All Kill No Skill 2899	Posted - 2014.05.03 05:14:00 - [70] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Sibyyl wrote: Neither would be made any better by trying to shoehorn a strong female lead/support in. You can't force a writer to create a good female character. I think that if it's forced, the quality of the character may not be something we wanted to see anyway. Of course the entire reason for this is because society doesn't equip authors to actually write decent female characters. I mostly blame that on the film actors guild and the writers they hire. Yes, they think they are woman-like but they're not. Then for the rest, well... hehe
jason hill Caldari Provisions Caldari State 528	Posted - 2014.05.03 13:35:00 - [71] - Quote meh ! I`ll watch anything ..... as long as the female characters have decent jugs I`m a happy bunney
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1268	Posted - 2014.05.03 18:36:00 - [72] - Quote Perhaps one of the biggest parts of the problem is that nearly every character in film that is female is a "female character". Most characters that are male are not a "male character". It's easier to write characters for male roles when you have convinced yourself that men are the norm and women are the outsiders. Men can play any role except a woman. Women can only play a woman or some crazy character who is a woman deep down inside but is fighting society over it and making a pitiful attempt at convincing people otherwise. If the writers could see that men and women aren't so different, they would find it's easy to cast women in roles. You make characters, then you assign actors. It's easier than what they are doing because you never stop and make sure the actors are men. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 110907	Posted - 2014.05.03 19:34:00 - [73] - Quote Angelique Duchemin wrote: As for credible female protagonists. Has there been one since Fargo? I'd go for Uma in Kill Bill. But then, she's not really playing a real human being. She's playing a cartoon. But it's still amazing anyway. But yes, Marge was an amazing character in Fargo ("Oh, I just thought I was going to barf.....") "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 110907	Posted - 2014.05.03 19:36:00 - [74] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Girls are even a higher percentage of game players than men, for God's sake. Is this really true? As far as I know from mumble I've been the only girl in fleets I've participated in, except for one. Or maybe EVE isn't representative of this statistic? (Or maybe I haven't been in enough fleets..) Kandy Krush Saga. Farmville. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 110907	Posted - 2014.05.03 19:40:00 - [75] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: . For example, Seven Samurai and Rashomon are two of my favorite films and neither have any women of significance. Neither would be made any better by trying to shoehorn a strong female lead/support in. As far as I know, "aggressive women" were verbotten in old Japan. They would be inaccurate in such historically based stories. Lets just say SF is quite a bit more flexible. Ripley was changed from male casting to female without one single word change in the script. It's not really that hard. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Eurydia Vespasian Storm Hunters Disturbed Acquaintance 7910	Posted - 2014.05.03 19:44:00 - [76] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Girls are even a higher percentage of game players than men, for God's sake. Is this really true? As far as I know from mumble I've been the only girl in fleets I've participated in, except for one. Or maybe EVE isn't representative of this statistic? (Or maybe I haven't been in enough fleets..) eve is definitely not representative. lol i, too, have very very often been the single female representative in fleet operations or on comms in general. i don't think any of us need to be reminded of gender percentages in eve. that's been talked about to death. if you do need reminded just watch the fanfest stream lol. i believe the statistic krix mentioned has a lot to do with mobile app gaming or social media gaming. i do plenty of that myself. it's far more accessible, far more simply designed and just easier to play here and there with no real commitment.
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 9500	Posted - 2014.05.03 19:54:00 - [77] - Quote People say "girls this" and "girls that" in these discussions, but when talking about the males it's "men this" and "men that". It's such an ingrained piece of sexism in our society that almost nobody ever notices until it's pointed out to them. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1269	Posted - 2014.05.03 19:54:00 - [78] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Ripley was changed from male casting to female without one single word change in the script. So when Lambert lunges at Ripley and screams "You b+¡tch!", that was improv? It probably was, actually. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Webvan All Kill No Skill 2929	Posted - 2014.05.03 21:53:00 - [79] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: People say "girls this" and "girls that" in these discussions, but when talking about the males it's "men this" and "men that". It's such an ingrained piece of sexism in our society that almost nobody ever notices until it's pointed out to them. hah! someone is catching onto my confusing long winded point? You knew that already no doubt. Girls Gëá Women etc. But it's been a long time, the death of Chivalry.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 1272	Posted - 2014.05.03 22:46:00 - [80] - Quote Referring to women as girls is not really chauvanism, for the most part. I haven't noticed any trend toward telling women that being girls is immature or not to be desired, rather just the opposite, women are supposed to act young, cute, and childish--while still being encouraged to be mature and (somewhat) self-sufficient. Boys are taught that they need too act older, stronger, and more mature/experienced than they really are. If anything, men are getting the short end of the stick here. I see lots of examples of people pointing at things as being chauvanist that really aren't. One of the big ones that bugs me a lot is when feminists get mad at female characters discussing sex or sexual topics. Women having sexual thoughts is normal. The belief in our society that sex is a man's thing is one of the most sexist and chauvanistic things you could possibly come up with. To suggest that women in movies should avoid being sexualized at all is tantamount to suggesting that they should only be sexualized as props or plot devices for the male characters. Gender equality is when a female character can do what male characters do in movies: seduce people, control the relationship, and wield the power to end the relationship. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!!
Webvan All Kill No Skill 2963	Posted - 2014.05.03 23:06:00 - [81] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: women are supposed to act young, cute, and childish--while still being encouraged to be mature and (somewhat) self-sufficient. Well at least "somewhat" self-sufficient, eh? hehehehe In before the thread melts. Ahh but then this is just a game forum. grabs some popcorn
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 110911	Posted - 2014.05.04 13:36:00 - [82] - Quote Ian Morbius wrote: Always liked Gena Rowlands as Gloria Swenson in Gloria (1980). One hard ex-mistress of a mobster. Whatever you do, do not miss Miss Swanson in "Sunset Boulevard". It's sorta like a David Lynch film but from the 1950s. Big influence on him. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 110911	Posted - 2014.05.04 13:39:00 - [83] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: People say "girls this" and "girls that" in these discussions, but when talking about the males it's "men this" and "men that". It's such an ingrained piece of sexism in our society that almost nobody ever notices until it's pointed out to them. It's all we had to notice until about 1970 or so. It's still ingrained horribly. Go to any baby and parenting site, and everything is still blue for boys and pink for girls. Period. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 110911	Posted - 2014.05.04 13:41:00 - [84] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Ripley was changed from male casting to female without one single word change in the script. So when Lambert lunges at Ripley and screams "You b+¡tch!", that was improv? It probably was, actually. Indeed, but that quick action was in the Director's Cut, and not what was presented in the theatrical release. But it's an inportant 5 seconds IMHO. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Slade Trillgon Brutor Force Federated 2796	Posted - 2014.05.04 14:12:00 - [85] - Quote I find that many of the strong roles for women are found in movies based on real women and their trials, tribulations and successes. The movie Songcatcher is a good example, but even then she is still painted as women that needs man's assistance in stereotypical situations. I know a little about the lady the movie is about and I am pretty sure she was not as soft as the movie made the character out to be. Do not get me wrong, she was no pushover in the movie. Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Men can play any role except a woman. This has been done and is being done more frquently. Granted, the roles I am thinking of are typically about a man dressing up as a women and not really a man playing a role written for a women. James Amril-Kesh wrote: People say "girls this" and "girls that" in these discussions, but when talking about the males it's "men this" and "men that". It's such an ingrained piece of sexism in our society that almost nobody ever notices until it's pointed out to them. I spent years trying to get my athletic administration and the athletes to stop saying girls soccer or girls swimming and diving.... Finally, after about 2 years, they switched all their print to Women's. Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Gender equality is when a female character can do what male characters do in movies: seduce people, control the relationship, and wield the power to end the relationship. Which we do have now, granted the examples are pretty dark. Fatal Attraction and Disclosure. Ironic or not the Michael Douglas stared as the dominated male in both movies
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 110914	Posted - 2014.05.04 14:18:00 - [86] - Quote Slade Trillgon wrote: I find that many of the strong roles for women are found in movies based on real women and their trials, tribulations and successes. The movie Songcatcher is a good example, but even then she is still painted as women that needs man's assistance in stereotypical situations. I know a little about the lady the movie is about and I am pretty sure she was not as soft as the movie made the character out to be. Do not get me wrong, she was no pushover in the movie. I actually saw that film ! One of my ex's wanted to watch it. It's good, but man, you sure have to have the stomach for super-primitive hillbilly spiritual songs. Surprising how one can hear the European, especially Irish influences in the American Backwoods Songbook. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 110914	Posted - 2014.05.04 14:22:00 - [87] - Quote Social Media doesn't really do much to help the advancement of women especially in how they "headline" things. Funny article that normalizes the silly headlines "It's a bit nippy out !! Rihanna shows off her nipples.....Again !!" changed to: "Woman goes to sports event. Wears top." "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Slade Trillgon Brutor Force Federated 2796	Posted - 2014.05.04 14:25:00 - [88] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Slade Trillgon wrote: I find that many of the strong roles for women are found in movies based on real women and their trials, tribulations and successes. The movie Songcatcher is a good example, but even then she is still painted as women that needs man's assistance in stereotypical situations. I know a little about the lady the movie is about and I am pretty sure she was not as soft as the movie made the character out to be. Do not get me wrong, she was no pushover in the movie. I actually saw that film ! One of my ex's wanted to watch it. It's good, but man, you sure have to have the stomach for super-primitive hillbilly spiritual songs. Surprising how one can hear the European, especially Irish influences in the American Backwoods Songbook. I am from Virginina and a big fan of bluegrass. Even though I am agnostic I am compeltely able to enjoy the spirituality of the old hymns. I believe that has to do with the fact that I realize how hard things were back then for the comman people and too boot with absolutely no 'answers'.
Krixtal Icefluxor INLAND EMPIRE Galactic 110914	Posted - 2014.05.04 14:26:00 - [89] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Men can play any role except a woman. ________________________________ That's so very true. They can come close, but there is always going to be a "tell". That Adam's Apple is hard to get rid of indeed. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Sibyyl 646	Posted - 2014.05.04 15:10:00 - [90] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Social Media doesn't really do much to help the advancement of women especially in how they "headline" things. Funny article that normalizes the silly headlines These headlines can produce an image of women that is probably impossible to achieve, but makes it seem like the norm. I'm criticizing it while being 100% guilty of thinking that way. I think men really can have exactly the same image problem when looking at any men's fitness magazine, or romantic comedy leads, or action movie stars, etc. We've forgotten that people come with lumps and imperfections.. Take solace knowing that even after the sun sets, and your sky is filled with darkness, that the sun is still shining. -D. Entervention Psychotic Monk joins BNI

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