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Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.05.22 05:43:00 -
[1]
Before writing anything...
GRONSAK STAY AWAY FROM THIS THREAD KTHX :P
Okay, now on to it...
Raven has serious fitting issues atm, if you want to fit t2 siege + t2 tank + nos.
After the changes, bthron can fit dual rep tank... Tempest can already fit dual rep tank and rack of d650 II with cap injector and 2x heavy nos with no fitting mods. <talking close range>.
Now hm, i was able to easily beat blasterthron 1v1, but there is no way to make it all fit without full faction midslots...
This, is the only setup i could make fit.
Awu4 here btw, don't have 5.
HIGH-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~~
> [1690 | 66] Siege Missile Launcher II
> [1690 | 66] Siege Missile Launcher II
> [1690 | 66] Siege Missile Launcher II
> [1690 | 66] Siege Missile Launcher II
> [1690 | 66] Siege Missile Launcher II
> [1690 | 66] Siege Missile Launcher II
> [ 0 | 0] Turret Slot
> [ 0 | 0] Turret Slot
MED-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~
> [1750 | 40] Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
> [ 500 | 170] Domination X-Large Shield Booster
> [ 0 | 45] 5a Prototype Shield Support I
> [ 0 | 31] Gist C-Type Ballistic Deflection Field
> [ 0 | 31] Gist C-Type Heat Dissipation Field
> [ 0 | 31] Gist C-Type Photon Scattering Field
LOW-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 0 | 16] Power Diagnostic System II
> [ 1 | 24] Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
> [ 1 | 37] Cross-linked Bolt Array I
> [ 1 | 37] Cross-linked Bolt Array I
> [ 1 | 17] Internal Force Field Array I
Remaining: 0.0CPU/65grid
I have to use full faction hardeners, faction shield booster AND 1 faction and 2 named dmg mods.
I know that there are going to be a ****load of discussions here how raven is uber overpowered because it can tank like hell and fit dmg mods in low etc...
But then again, it can't tackle anything with this setup.
Ofcourse this setup will easily pwn mega/tempest/<insert ship without ecm here> 1v1.
Tho if it's not an arranged 1v1 your enemy will just warp...
This makes me fit ECM in mids all the time, because they use less cpu in total than the goddamn shieldtank...
Ofcourse, cruise II raven has no problems like this, but cruise II raven should lose to a domi and a well kitted mega, especially post-patch the mega is easier to fit.
Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?
Please try to keep flaming down to a minimum, i just want to know if other people find that it's ridiculously hard to fit a close range 1v1 BS raven.
All about target jamming |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.05.22 05:57:00 -
[2]
I admire your thought process in this post
"I was able to beat a blasterthron easily" <---Doesn't this tell you something????
"I want to be able to fit my largest weapon AND a t2 tank AND nos"
"Tempest can fit 650's (NOT 800's) and a tank"
At least admit you are massively biased
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Tovarishch
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Posted - 2006.05.22 06:08:00 -
[3]
I was going to only partially quote the original post in order to mislead people while completely ignoring logic and reason.... but I see someone beat me to the punch.
Only two things in life are certain... and Mercenary Coalition doesn't do taxes. |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.05.22 06:21:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Tovarishch
I was going to only partially quote the original post in order to mislead people while completely ignoring logic and reason.... but I see someone beat me to the punch.
I'm tired and its late and for the life of me I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or taking a poke at me
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Ripline
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Posted - 2006.05.22 06:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Tovarishch
I was going to only partially quote the original post in order to mislead people while completely ignoring logic and reason.... but I see someone beat me to the punch.
I'm tired and its late and for the life of me I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or taking a poke at me
Hard to tell tbh. Seems like summarized:
1) The raven in that fit can kill any non-EW BS mano a mano
1.1) but it's expensive and hard to fit a T2 tank without excessive use of faction modules
2) ergo, it's cheaper to just dump the T2 tank and fit EW and cheese the target to death
3) but it annoys the poster since some ships can fit T2 weapons and tank (tempest?).
Would sound like an argument about about T2 shield tank CPU requirements without actually spelling it out directly. Or a comment on how EW is easier to fit since it's,well, easier to fit. And cheap (in multiple senses of the word).
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Xori Ruscuv
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Posted - 2006.05.22 06:53:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 22/05/2006 06:53:56
OMG.
Boost the Raven.
WE CAN NOT have this injustice!
*rabble rabble rabble*
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:03:00 -
[7]
When you state the Megathron can fit a dual rep tank, what does it fit otherwise? Some arguments need to be properly proven in order to make a point.
Additionally, all ramifications of a potential change must be taken into account, including how it will perform in a frowned-upon EWar set up etc.
New sig coming soonÖ
Drone musing (MC-boards) |
Alliaanna Dalaii
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 22/05/2006 06:56:52
OMG.
Boost the Raven!
Die !
Alliaanna
Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-=
Make POS's Hackable.. Support this thread ! |
Xori Ruscuv
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 07:04:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 22/05/2006 07:04:23
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 22/05/2006 06:56:52
OMG.
Boost the Raven!
Die !
Alliaanna
Aw, what, you don't want the Raven boosted?
PS. Post with your main.
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Fuujin
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ryysa
Before writing anything...
GRONSAK STAY AWAY FROM THIS THREAD KTHX :P
QFT
_______________
The sword has to be more than a simple weapon; it has to be an answer to life's questions
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:09:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ryysa on 22/05/2006 07:10:33
i didn't ask to boost the raven.
And about tempest, it can fit this:
6x 650 II, 2x heavy diminishing
heavy cap injector, mwd, web, scram, multispec(!)
2x t2 large reps, 2x adaptive nano II, 2x dmg mods...
or well... 2x hardeners II, 1x faction hardener, 1 adaptive nano II.
This is more or less a ship equipped with fully T2...
And yes it is kinda imba that the only reason the raven can't wtfpwn everything is that it has serious problems with CPU.
My personal opinion is that it's tanking or dmg ability should be a bit nerfed, but not only by insane cpu/grid reqs....
I.e. if it could fit full t2 tank with t2 dmg mods and t2 launchers AND nos, then it would be totally overpowered...
Originally by: Deja Thoris
"Tempest can fit 650's (NOT 800's) and a tank"
650 II is better than 800 II....
If i could have a siege launcher that can use t2 torps, but have for example less ROF (thus decreased dps) and take a bit less grid/cpu i'd be very happy...
All about target jamming |
Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:12:00 -
[12]
Please boost the raven! It is very underpowdered!
Ryysa, wtf are you talking about? I want t2 megapulses + double rep t2 tank + NOS on me geddon aswell please
Please boost the raven! It is very underpowdered!
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Xori Ruscuv
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:13:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 22/05/2006 07:13:34
Originally by: Ryysa
And yes it is kinda imba that the only reason the raven can't wtfpwn everything is that it has serious problems with CPU.
My personal opinion is that it's tanking or dmg ability should be a bit nerfed, but not only by insane cpu/grid reqs....
I agree and disagree, I suppose. I don't think it is entirely uncommon to see ships whose balance is kept "in check" by limiting fittings in such a way. This method obviously doesn't do a very good job, but I think that your complaint could apply equally to several other ships in the game.
EDIT: Said something really stupid. I'm sick. Forgive me. 
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ithildin
When you state the Megathron can fit a dual rep tank, what does it fit otherwise? Some arguments need to be properly proven in order to make a point.
Additionally, all ramifications of a potential change must be taken into account, including how it will perform in a frowned-upon EWar set up etc.
Well, before changes, it's a lot harder to set up the mega because of CPU Issues...
After changes it seems nicer, need to run some numbers.
Either way, not much would change with EWar setup...
I have no problem to fit 4-5 multispec in mid with gank+wcs in lows and siege II in high...
The problem is, atm... you can either fit *** EW setup raven which is going to cost you like 50m
Or you can fit a faction fitted tank raven which will cost you about 300m, and perform only a bit better.
Which one would you choose? i would choose the former.
This whole post is basically about the current raven cpu/grid balance forcing and encouraging people to fit stabs, dmg mods and jammers over tank.... think about it.
All about target jamming |
Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tassi
Please boost the raven! It is very underpowdered!
Ryysa, wtf are you talking about? I want t2 megapulses + double rep t2 tank + NOS on me geddon aswell please
Please boost the raven! It is very underpowdered!
Geddon is a tier1 BS, so it can't fit 2 large reps.
On the other hand, apoc can with megapulse...
Apoc doing crap damage is other question though, so please stay the fk out of my thread if you have personal issues with me and don't want to contribute anything.
"Wer lesen kann ist klar im vorteil."
All about target jamming |
Paigan
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:17:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Paigan on 22/05/2006 07:17:02
I fly a raven myself. And in my opinion, you don't need to fit "all that you can" at once on it.
Because:
- The shield booster comparable to a LAR II is a LSB II, not a XLASB II.
- Tech2 Sieges only make sense if you want to 250km-sniper around with it. (Well "sniper", you know, at least force another sniper away). In most other cases, T2 ammo can't be used anyway, so arbalests do almost the same damage but allow much easier fitting.
So i would say:
If you want to wtfpwngank someone with 6 Torps and 2 Nos, you're fine with a LSB II plus awesome resistances.
If you want to wtfpwntank, you can use a XLSB II, but reduce weapons to cruise launcher.
I switched from flying a megathron. And the raven is so easy to fit in comparison, it's almost a shame.
edit: AWU V is good for you :-P
--
This game is still in beta stage |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:18:00 -
[17]
well i have to admit every raven setup i have has a co proc II on it, because of CPU issues.
the XL SB II is insanely retarded CPU wise, i dont think it's possible to fit if you want to use siege launchers, it just doesn't work, even with cruise launchers its close, and requires a co proc II
oh well
------
FPDOMS MINER KILLBOARD |
Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:19:00 -
[18]
It doesnt matter if its tier 1 or tier 2. Raven is already way overpowered, that has nothing to do with Ryysa.
Why not fit 3 dmg mod + 2x prozessor in your setup? Just forget about those stabs? Would enable you to fit some UBAR tank in mids + have gank.
Ah well, you must be some noob to not have at least 2 wcs on your raven 
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DeathWarrior
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:20:00 -
[19]
think i used
6 seige, 2 med nos
xl sb, em hard, 2 invul's, heavy cap inject
3 bcu, 1 pdu, 1 cpu
and 5x medium eccm drones, 5x hobogoblin II's
Originally by: Tuxford
I once tried to kick my brother when I had my pants around my ankle. Probably not my brightest moments. |
Ryysa
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 07:20:00 -
[20]
T2 torps are a must because you do full damage (Explosion radius!).
It's np to fit it with arbalest at all, but after the patch changes i don't see any other ships having to fit best named guns, just to be able to fit it...
Sure cruise is possible, but it is a very heavy dps hit, and Fury Cruise totally terminate your cap recharge, so tanking + fury cruise doesn't work that well imo.
All about target jamming |
Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tassi
It doesnt matter if its tier 1 or tier 2. Raven is already way overpowered, that has nothing to do with Ryysa.
Why not fit 3 dmg mod + 2x prozessor in your setup? Just forget about those stabs? Would enable you to fit some UBAR tank in mids + have gank.
Ah well, you must be some noob to not have at least 2 wcs on your raven
did you ever read the top setup?
The minimum to fit full t2 is 1 co-pro II and 1 rcu II.
You still can't fit nos with that... seriously, stop crying and learn to read.
All about target jamming |
Tassi
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:23:00 -
[22]
Giving it more cpu means to make an already overpowered ship even more overpowered. Dunno why you don't get that.
Boost geddon please
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Xori Ruscuv
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tassi
Giving it more cpu means to make an already overpowered ship even more overpowered. Dunno why you don't get that.
Boost geddon please
She said above that she is not asking for a boost, in fact she said that she feels it could use a slight nerf.
She simply does not like the fact that the Raven's "balancing" comes from CPU limitations, rather than other things (slots maybe?)
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:27:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Ryysa on 22/05/2006 07:29:27
Originally by: DeathWarrior
think i used
6 seige, 2 med nos
xl sb, em hard, 2 invul's, heavy cap inject
3 bcu, 1 pdu, 1 cpu
and 5x medium eccm drones, 5x hobogoblin II's
That only fits with Faction SB, 1 faction hardener, and Arba Siege, this setup is here:
HIGH-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~~
> [1610 | 51] 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher
> [1610 | 51] 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher
> [1610 | 51] 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher
> [1610 | 51] 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher
> [1610 | 51] 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher
> [1610 | 51] 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher
> [ 175 | 20] Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
> [ 175 | 20] Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
MED-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~
> [1750 | 40] Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
> [ 0 | 44] Invulnerability Field II
> [ 0 | 44] Invulnerability Field II
> [ 0 | 45] 5a Prototype Shield Support I
> [ 500 | 170] Domination X-Large Shield Booster
> [ 0 | 31] Gist C-Type Photon Scattering Field
LOW-SLOTS :
~~~~~~~~~~~
> [ 0 | 16] Power Diagnostic System II
> [ 1 | 40] Ballistic Control System II
> [ 1 | 40] Ballistic Control System II
> [ 1 | 40] Ballistic Control System II
> [ 1 | 17] Internal Force Field Array I
Leftover: 2 cpu (can get cheaper boost amp), 200 pg
This is not very expensive, about 70-80m total for the faction hardener/booster.
But then, that's the same thing people whined about when it came to the mega. Most people fitted t1 best named guns because of cpu issues.
Imo raven just needs some kind of rebalance, or there should be something between siege/cruise. There's 3 sizes of large short range guns anyway.
All about target jamming |
Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Originally by: Tassi
Giving it more cpu means to make an already overpowered ship even more overpowered. Dunno why you don't get that.
Boost geddon please
She said above that she is not asking for a boost, in fact she said that she feels it could use a slight nerf.
She simply does not like the fact that the Raven's "balancing" comes from CPU limitations, rather than other things (slots maybe?)
Just ignore him, he has no interest in reading anything here other than to flame me.
All about target jamming |
Foulis
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ryysa
Geddon is a tier1 BS, so it can't fit 2 large reps.
tier 1 does not instantly mean it's worse than tier 2, just different. Apoc is made to tank, geddon is made to gank, that is why the apoc can fit a dual rep tank easier.
----
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
|
Ryysa
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 07:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Foulis
Originally by: Ryysa
Geddon is a tier1 BS, so it can't fit 2 large reps.
tier 1 does not instantly mean it's worse than tier 2, just different. Apoc is made to tank, geddon is made to gank, that is why the apoc can fit a dual rep tank easier.
Strongly agree, but this is what i slightly hinted at above.
All about target jamming |
Alliaanna Dalaii
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 07:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 22/05/2006 07:04:23
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 22/05/2006 06:56:52
OMG.
Boost the Raven!
Die !
Alliaanna
Aw, what, you don't want the Raven boosted?
PS. Post with your main.
p.s. this kinda is my main, Gm's say im not allowed to reveal who my proper main is  Lets just say posting with my main is not possible 
Alliaanna
Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-=
Make POS's Hackable.. Support this thread ! |
Xori Ruscuv
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 07:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
p.s. this kinda is my main, Gm's say im not allowed to reveal who my proper main is Lets just say posting with my main is not possible
Alliaanna
Damnit, Tux! I knew you were lurking...
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MrRookie
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
I admire your thought process in this post
"I was able to beat a blasterthron easily" <---Doesn't this tell you something????
"I want to be able to fit my largest weapon AND a t2 tank AND nos"
"Tempest can fit 650's (NOT 800's) and a tank"
At least admit you are massively biased
Actually it doesn't say much at all...
Anyway as Jim points out, fitting an XL t2 booster is nearly impossible along with siege launchers but to be fair about any ships have to choose between t2 tank or the biggest rack of t2 wepons. Personally i find fitting EW and an easy armor tank easier than shield tanking. But if you are going to fitt a t2 tank along with t2 sieges you would probably be bether off fitting a set of named launchers and a bcu2.
Not sure where I'm going with this but I just get frustrated how every Raven thread ends with a Mega vs Raven flame fest 
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy...
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
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