|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Samuel Reaper
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
0
   |
Posted - 2014.05.05 12:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:I'm also curious if there was any specific response on the subject of timer rollbacks. Seriously, its the most supported change in the FW community. Tell me someone brought it up.
It's a terrible idea and I very much doubt that CCP will take anything so unbalanced into consideration. It is basically a free pass for defenders to never have to run down a plex counter again. Any change to timers needs to be on the basis of first past the post dual timers. Rollbacks will be far worse than what we have at the moment, introducing a massive imbalance to address an insignificant problem. |
Samuel Reaper
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 12:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:it isn't really a pvp vs pve topic IMO. Its rather the fact that if you are after LP, running is more efficient then fighting. Thats a major flaw in the core design of plexing. Timer resets would make running or hiding inefficient, but you can and should still be able to run or hide if your really want.. its a sandbox after all.
Why are there timers in the first place? To force players to stay in space (its just the ultra short version of reinforcement timers), which ends up creating a conflict. Right now you can completely avoid the conflict while making progress.
Resets or rollbacks simply don't achieve the aim you identify here. The defender just drives the aggressor out of the plex and then flies off. He has no motivation to stay in place as the timer will roll back anyway and he can maintain the status quo - which is inherently a defensive victory - without ever capping a plex. |
Samuel Reaper
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 18:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:And what's wrong with that? Why would the defender need to sit 19 minutes in a novice for no LP after the "attacker" has been driven off? What purpose does this serve, is it compelling and exciting gameplay?
It serves as a punishment for winning the engagement! How dare you run them out??!!
I too think that one 50mil SP character in a Comet should be able to defend a dozen plexes at a time against low-skilled characters in basic frigates. It is the height of absurdity to ask a pilot with lots of skillpoints to actually sit in a plex and run the timer down if he wants to hold it. He should be able to stop people soloing as many plexes as he can reach without ever having to do the boring scrub work the attackers will have to do to make any progress.
I agree that the current system isn't ideal but the rollback fix is worse. Optimal option is to have two timers and whoever counts down there own one first wins the plex. |
Samuel Reaper
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 18:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Samuel Reaper wrote:X Gallentius wrote:King Fu Hostile wrote:And what's wrong with that? Why would the defender need to sit 19 minutes in a novice for no LP after the "attacker" has been driven off? What purpose does this serve, is it compelling and exciting gameplay?
It serves as a punishment for winning the engagement! How dare you run them out??!! I too think that one 50mil SP character in a Comet should be able to defend a dozen plexes at a time against low-skilled characters in basic frigates. It is the height of absurdity to ask a pilot with lots of skillpoints to actually sit in a plex and run the timer down if he wants to hold it. He should be able to stop people soloing as many plexes as he can reach without ever having to do the boring scrub work the attackers will have to do to make any progress. I agree that the current system isn't ideal but the rollback fix is worse. Optimal option is to have two timers and whoever counts down there own one first wins the plex. Two low-skilled players in hookbills > 1 high skilled player in Comet - if the two low skilled players are competent.
If they are competent and if they are working together. However, while those two pilots will possibly be able to take one plex while working together the solo guy in the Comet can still protect as many plexes as are within his range from any low skill soloers without ever having to run a timer down. The two guys in hookbills have to sit in the same place but the defender can be all over the map. Defenders will get a HUGE force multiplier through a rollback change.
What's the objection to dual timers, out of interest? As far as I can see they solve the same problems but without setting up a new more significant imbalance. |
Samuel Reaper
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.05 19:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Samuel Reaper wrote:If they are competent and if they are working together. However, while those two pilots will possibly be able to take one plex while working together the solo guy in the Comet can still protect as many plexes as are within his range from any low skill soloers without ever having to run a timer down. The two guys in hookbills have to sit in the same place but the defender can be all over the map. Defenders will get a HUGE force multiplier through a rollback change.
What's the objection to dual timers, out of interest? As far as I can see they solve the same problems but without setting up a new more significant imbalance. In your scenario the Comet can only protect the plexes that the hookbills choose not to enter. We're back at the status quo. Yes, the defender gets a huge force multiplier through a rollback change. This multiplier is this: - if he's willing to defend a system, then the other side has to bring more than him to start taking plexes. He's still not going to want to defend backwater systems (ok, somebody might, but not anybody I know), but he will be able to run off afk plexing alts in systems he cares about (home systems). Dual timers - No different than the current system except the total engagement is shorter. The defender is still punished (by running the timer) for winning the engagement (making the other guy run).
Running the timer isn't a punishment, it's the mechanism for warzone control. If you think that winning the engagement is all that should be involved why apply this principle only to the defender?
|
Samuel Reaper
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 10:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Deerin wrote:Samuel Reaper wrote:
Running the timer isn't a punishment, it's the mechanism for warzone control. If you think that winning the engagement is all that should be involved why apply this principle only to the defender?
Why do you think it only applies to defender? It equally applies to attacker too.
No it does (XGallentius is missing this point as well). Maintaining the status quo by simply driving someone out of a plex is a victory for the defenders in a way that it is not for the attackers. The defender needs only maintain the status quo to succeed in his defense while the attacker cannot achieve anything without actually taking plexes. Timer rollbacks provide a huge force multiplier but only to the defender. X was arguing that running a timer is a punishment and that it is not fair to expect the defender to run a timer when they have already won the engagement. My question is why should this principle not also apply to the attackers - win engagement, take plex. It is obvious why this should not happen with attackers but the fact that the proposed mechanism will be fundamentally imbalanced in providing a massive advantage to the defender only tells you all you need to know about why it is inherently flawed.
|
Samuel Reaper
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 17:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Samuel Reaper wrote: Timer rollbacks provide a huge force multiplier but only to the defender. ... to the side trying to maintain the status quo, or the guy trying to grief the other side. Yes, most of the time the status quo is trying to be maintained by the defender, but there's cases where the attacker wants to do it as well. The attacker is also the guy who is most likely trying to grief the other side. Griefing is an honorable profession and deserves more tools! :)
Offensive plexing is griefing and running timers down in a plex is a punishment?
I think we're through the looking glass here people  |
|
|
| |
|