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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.22 15:48:00 -
[1]
I was just wondering what you guys thought of the joystickless approach UI and why do you think CCP did not want to build a game with a more classic UI?
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.09.22 15:49:00 -
[2]
The mode of combat would not suit a joystick because it's all point and click.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.22 15:54:00 -
[3]
you have a crosshair in the center of the screen, also the mouse could still allow clicking separate from the crosshair...
Or you could have shortcut keys and menus
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Turtle
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Posted - 2003.09.22 15:57:00 -
[4]
It has to do with our weapon platforms more than anything I think. With turret based weapons ship handling is much simplified. If we had fixed weapons ala Wing Commander joysticks would be required.
IMO I think this is much more real and a more elegant solution though I like Wing Commander combat much more.
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.22 15:58:00 -
[5]
I believe frigates should have that style of flying.
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Bashier Tarr
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Posted - 2003.09.22 15:59:00 -
[6]
One of the best things about EVE, engine-wise, is the low bandwidth consumption. This happens because there is a reduced amount of instructions going to and from the server. For instance, movement instructions only occur when you point and click, everything else is then calculated by your computer with server-client sync every few seconds. If you had a joystick, it would be impossible to create this sort of prediction system that saves bandwidth. In short, joystick -> more movement -> more instructions to and from server -> more bandwidth consumption -> more network lag.
Also, making this a joystick game would imply making it more twitchy, which would be a bad thing in such a tactical, skill based RPG.
Gradient is hiring! Check our CoC here. |
Emon
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Posted - 2003.09.22 16:01:00 -
[7]
I think combat is more Naval style combat than fighter or Starfighters
although drones are sort of automated fighters
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Earthan
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Posted - 2003.09.22 16:38:00 -
[8]
I think its ashame its not joystick ,jumpgate like style flying.I mean it shouldnt be so easy to fly ,it should take some effort and attention. I played JumpGate only 3 days ( had to cancel due to studies examinations coming) but I liked much more its way of flying.
It was quite hard to learn and requiered attention.Then you were much less bored when traveling.
Many poeple compalin about asteroids slowdown.I think its great, Its the only moment i enjoy flying, i have to think, set a safe path , and manouver through asteroids.
But due to Diablo and its followers succes everybody wants to make the same easy click and go interface...
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.22 16:45:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Daesdemona on 22/09/2003 16:55:49
bah... I am losin it ... moved post to right thread.
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Baff's Ugly
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Posted - 2003.09.22 17:40:00 -
[10]
made me a little upset as i bought a ú60 joystick/throttle set up to go with this game. and then it's point and click.
if there was a playable demo of this game, i'd have known what to expect.
i'll buy "lock on" instead and play with it then.
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Scragg
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Posted - 2003.09.22 17:49:00 -
[11]
It's not a twitchy flight sim kind of game.
Scragg, Tyrell Corporation
Vice-Director Military Operations |
Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.09.22 17:56:00 -
[12]
EVE ships are capital ships, not fighters. Even frigates are dozens of meters long, and cruisers are at least a couple hundred. Ships that big don't fly like a fighter, so even if there WAS joystick support it would feel more like a bomber simulation than a fast-paced flight sim. Besides, with turret mount weapons your exact course doesn't matter much.
More importantly, a large-scale MMORPG with flight-sim controls is impossible with current technology. It quite simply can't be done cheaply enough to sell. People gripe about lag in EVE now, but in FPS-style combat there would be FAR more lag than the current design. Do you REALLY expect people to be able to play a game like that on a 56k dialup? (Read your EVE box... this game supports dialup)
Sure they could have eveyone fly their ships real-time with a powerful enough server and internet gateway, but do you REALLY think a MMORPG that requires a high-speed broadband connection and costs $40 a month for the massive server and bandwidth would sell? 
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.22 17:56:00 -
[13]
I like to twitch
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Victoria Madison
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Posted - 2003.09.22 17:56:00 -
[14]
Has anyone played Freelancer? I really enjoyed flying around in that game. It was nice to really be "moving" in a virtual space that was popluated with objects that are actually on the same plane of existence as my ship...no flying through space stations and such. :)
However, I do understand that with a MMORPG like this issues of network performance would start to arise. It's obvious that CCP doesn't have the time/money/expertise to pull something like this off right now. Maybe they will when EVE finally gets out of BETA. :)
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Casey Jens
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Posted - 2003.09.22 18:05:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Casey Jens on 22/09/2003 18:14:10
Edited by: Casey Jens on 22/09/2003 18:10:46
For Archemedes:
The current tech DOES allow for flight sim controllability.
examples: Airwar, and the MS Aircombat mmo sims.
There was another MMO called Allegience a few years ago that resembled Eve slightly that also used*****pit view and flight controls AND allowed multiple player 'crews'......and it worked quite well as well. (its economics doomed it as everyone in the game was in battleships within weeks........it had no real persistence, and died from same-ol syndrome. (if that game is still being played, I haven't seen it.)
Another genre, Nascar Racing by Papyrus has 42 drivers (capable) on high speed 'server-side' connections, with detailed physics information and tons more physics/collision detection info being passed than eve combat ever dreamt of, AND client side 'prediction algorithms', and runs beautifully...(granted eve's numbers are way higher than this sim, but noone believed this was possible at ALL when papyrus implemented it.
The gist is that the data-streamlining and prediction coding built into the client/server model CAN allow for the type of 'combat/flying' that some here are wanting.
I'm not advocating*****pit view as I'm quite happy with the way the designers approached this MMO, but it IS very possible with tech from 3 years ago to pull this off.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2003.09.22 18:42:00 -
[16]
 Quote:
EVE ships are capital ships, not fighters. Even frigates are dozens of meters long, and cruisers are at least a couple hundred. Ships that big don't fly like a fighter, so even if there WAS joystick support it would feel more like a bomber simulation than a fast-paced flight sim. Besides, with turret mount weapons your exact course doesn't matter much.
More importantly, a large-scale MMORPG with flight-sim controls is impossible with current technology. It quite simply can't be done cheaply enough to sell. People gripe about lag in EVE now, but in FPS-style combat there would be FAR more lag than the current design. Do you REALLY expect people to be able to play a game like that on a 56k dialup? (Read your EVE box... this game supports dialup)
Sure they could have eveyone fly their ships real-time with a powerful enough server and internet gateway, but do you REALLY think a MMORPG that requires a high-speed broadband connection and costs $40 a month for the massive server and bandwidth would sell?
And what about "Jumpgate"?(A MMORPG a bit Eve like ,much older and with joystick control)
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
RazorDreamz
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Posted - 2003.09.22 18:48:00 -
[17]
Plz, you really want a joystick? The interface is all point and click so I think it would blow for joysticks.
If they made it more like a wingcommander type of fighting, then that would be much better and exciting too, would make the game more dependent on user skill than user cash to buy the best.
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CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003:
Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic m |
McWatt
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Posted - 2003.09.22 19:03:00 -
[18]
game has lots of probs/ huge lag at the moment already.
every move of the stick will send infos to the server.
use your joysticks as you please daesdemona, but not in this game.
thanks.
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Baff's Ugly
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Posted - 2003.09.22 19:14:00 -
[19]
planetside is an mmpg with joystick support and it costs the same a month.
this particular game doesn't support. but the technology is available. and the bandwidth.
you can play with a 56k modem too.
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Klatuu
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Posted - 2003.09.22 20:03:00 -
[20]
Eve really isn't supposed to be a 'twitch' game.
I'm just fine without a joystick. |
Ayar Cachi
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Posted - 2003.09.22 20:17:00 -
[21]
OMG, I use a Saitek wireless gamepad to play eve. Really great for zooming in on billboards. Eve is totally joystick ready. Y'all just don't try hard enough. :)
Of course, it's easier when the custom keyboard mappings are saved...
P.S. Pointing to icons, the drop-lists, and the scrollbars is a *****. Way easier with the mouse. Hmmm, I have an idea.
New Poll: Does Daes play Eve, or just spend all 'her' time posting?
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Heh, j/k! We love you.
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Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.09.22 22:38:00 -
[22]
I should have been more specific... Yes it's possible to do a FPS MMOG. I've played Planetside, and I'm sure the same could work in a space sim. What ISN'T possible is to do a FPS style game with 40,000 people on the same server. One of EVE's biggest attractions is the "one world" concept, where there are truly LARGE numbers of people in a single galaxy. To make it a "twitch" style space flight sim would require smaller servers or a HUGE increase in costs. Remember, we get combat lag NOW even with the current simple combat system!
It would also ruin the game. The whole point of a skill-based system is that CHARACTER skill rather than PLAYER skill decides a battle. The player provides the tactics, but it's the character's abilities that control how well those tactics work. I love twitch-style space games like the old Wing Commander line, but EVE was never intended to be one. (If it had been, I'd have been here at launch instead of 2 months later!)
PS: If anyone DOES know a way to do a truly large-scale (10s of thousands of players) FPS space game, please write one... (Wing Commander the MMORPG would be nice) 
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Kennian
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Posted - 2003.09.22 23:12:00 -
[23]
It's realy a tragity that EA totaly obliterated Origin... Now they can only do UO. that's it...and they even canciled part two! a Privateer MMO would be bliss, privateer two was damn near MMO ready out of the box, would just need a server system and other nessesities. but it will never happen, just like there will never be a Crusader MMO...
as for the joystick thing, no thanks, kinda pointless in this game
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