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zerobubble
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Posted - 2006.05.23 18:13:00 -
[1]
I almost forgot to post this...
Its just a simple idea to replace instas with:
- Any BM's within 15K of the gate warp you to the gate at 15k
- In addition to the current warp-to options you have one without a range on it - ie."Warp to xxx-xx gate"
- Chossing the warp to gate option will warp you in between 15k and 0k based on how many times you have visited the system.
Why this makes sense to me:
- The number of visits to a system is already tracked and will have an instant benefit to pilots
- Advantage is given to those who have been in a region for a period of time, call it home court advantage, and those who once occupied a region for a period of time, "my old stomping grounds"
- roleplay - as you use the gates in the system your nav computer compensates for local anomalies, gravitational pull and orbit of the planets and it gets better at determining the best spot to drop out of warp.
- puts the burden on invading forces of a new region, and opens the door for old alliance members with intimate knowlege of a certain region to play key roles in scouting, intel etc.
So anyway, was just a thought.
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DukDodgerz
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Posted - 2006.05.23 19:00:00 -
[2]
soooooooo
based on your "idea" those already camping a gate/system all the time will be able to escape, while those traveling THROUGH will be ganked without any chance at all of making it to a gate...
your idea favors only griefers and gankers (some pirates might like it too).
insta's are fine, the only problem with insta's are the WHINERS that want more victims that won't stand a chance, while ensuring the 'badguys' can always escape.
FRODO HAS FAILED;
BUSH HAS THE RING!!!
The Hippo mating ritual |
Myst Override
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Posted - 2006.05.23 19:43:00 -
[3]
Make a new skill. (Warp Prediction?)
$30 mill cost. Each skill by region.
Level 1 within 15km; Level 2 within 11km; Level 5 within 0 km.
THat way not every one will have it;
and not everyone will have it for every region.
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zerobubble
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Posted - 2006.05.23 20:05:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: DukDodgerz
soooooooo
based on your "idea" those already camping a gate/system all the time will be able to escape, while those traveling THROUGH will be ganked without any chance at all of making it to a gate...
It depends on how many times each has flown through the system... If a trader for instance has run the route hundreds of times there should be no problem. Same with the campers, depending on how many times they have jumped into the system or not determines if they can insta to the gate or not.
In either case whether they have have instas or not doesnt determine if someone gets ganked or escapes.
Now, I personaly have no probs with BM's, but i dont want them to just dissapear with no acceptable alternative, hence my "idea".
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Arkanor
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Posted - 2006.05.23 20:16:00 -
[5]
People will grind the route in shuttles over and over and over again to get it close enough to instajump, then just autopilot themselves through unsecure space.
No.
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\_/ <-- My care cup, LOOK it's empty! |
Kuolematon
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Posted - 2006.05.23 20:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Myst Override
$30 mill cost.
Sounds expensive! How much ISK would that be? 
Unnerf Amarr!
Proud member of Caldari Provisions |
zerobubble
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Posted - 2006.05.23 21:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Arkanor
People will grind the route in shuttles over and over and over again to get it close enough to instajump, then just autopilot themselves through unsecure space.
No.
So autopilot still warps at 15k, it doesnt have to use the new option.
fixed??
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.05.23 22:03:00 -
[8]
No, because you're making people spend 3-4 weeks warping arround in shuttles getting ganked before they can compete in an region.
The tracking of systems visited is bugged, and has been for years. And there can't be a "home court advantage", since either you have instas and can play the 0.0 PvP game, or you can't.
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TFace
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Posted - 2006.05.23 22:08:00 -
[9]
Maybe you can give pirates a disadvantage.
Lets say, you need a local computer in the system telling your ships computer how to calculate the best approach to a jump gate.
This way the local system computer can give less process time to a character with a bad security status making it harder for his ships computer to calculate the most perfect approach to a jump gate.
This could also be used with BM's.
A negative security status could also influence the calculation to a BM
This way pirates blowing up players ship wil have the disadvantage.
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zerobubble
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Posted - 2006.05.23 22:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
No, because you're making people spend 3-4 weeks warping arround in shuttles getting ganked before they can compete in an region.
I didnt set a time-frame for establishing good jumps in a system.
Or are instas just fine the way they are? If so, then lets get rid of bm's and have ships auto-insta to gates.
But see that doesnt work either, so help find a happy medium. If this idea doesnt work, how would you change it so it does? To me this takes the black and white, insta or no insta and makes it a little more interesting where you earn your insta by flying through the systems the hard way rather then buying your 'free pass' through the region...
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Arkanor
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Posted - 2006.05.23 22:55:00 -
[11]
No, not fixed. It just forces people to grind to ultimately achieve the same result they do now.
I propose a more radical change, although one that is farther-reaching, *theoretically* it should eliminate the problems with
-Gatecamps
-Cloaked Freighter logoff escapes (sort of, but it needs help solving the root of that problem)
-Claiming of huge swarths of territory without the means to defend it
-Instas/BMs (sort of)
-The boredom of a gatecamping party and the effectiveness of raiding parties.
+Moving more people into 0.0
Do away with jumpgates in 0.0 entirely. Unsecure space is the frontier, it isn't settled (for the RPers, the jumpgates of the civilization that was destroyed in deep space deteriorated to a point of unusability and drifted.) Secure space on the other hand, would use jumpgates for the purposes of enforcing customs, traffic management, et cetera. This also helps new players as they would not need to buy fuel for jumps while just starting out in secure space.
Each ship would have a fuel bay (or just use the cargo hold) to fuel its own jump drive. Non-capital ship jumpdrives are limited to a distance to (1) system away, making them no faster than gates are now. The jump drive would jump you anywhere within a (1-5AU?) radius of the star in the target system.
For fuel, I would say something along the lines of
Frigate: (8) racial fuel units (1.20m^3)
Destroyer: (12) racial fuel units (1.80m^3)
Cruiser: (20) racial fuel units (3.00m^3)
Battlecruiser: (30) racial fuel units (4.50m^3)
Battleship: (60) racial fuel units (9.00m^3)
Industrial: (1000) racial fuel units (150m^3)
Freighter: (10,000) racial fuel units (1,500m^3)
(I have never used a capital ship jumpdrive, so figures may be wonky.)
I personally have never used a jump drive, so I do not know how these values would compare, I just tried to give the ships a relatively decent range, while maintaining balance, obviously a combat ship cannot carry 100m3 of fuel to make a system-jump, as it would be unable to carry any ammo. Whereas the Freighter and Industrial are used for supply-lines, and while they shouldn't be invincible (could use some help integrating that,) they should cost money to use. The justification for an industrial could be
"Note: Industrials carry cheaper and less-efficient versions of the Individual Jumpdrive powering more expensive combat vessels, and need to create a more stable jump field in order to prevent them from being shredded into subatomic particles, thus they require more fuel to create a usable jump portal."
For freighters, it's a large (capital...) ship, needs to compute its own coordinates, stabler jump field, needs to power coffee warmers, take your pick. They aren't exactly as "fragile" as industrials.
This solution solves the following problems:
1. It forces alliances/corps to secure their assets instead of every m^3 of space in that system. The effectiveness of raiding parties is reduced as they can no longer hold a system hostage by taking a gate, it requires that they attack the sovereign's assets (POS, etc)
2. It ends the boring "omg someone jumped in *target lock jam paint web scram shoot boom*" procedure. No more needing to run minesweeper in the background.
3. It forces the use of cargo ships as tactical assets, but still allows their use to trade where there is civilization to trade with (lowsec/hisec.)
4. It gives meaning to mining racial ice, suddenly a new market is created for those goods.
5. It allows people to "pass through" space without being senselessly forced into a gank without committing any action. Sitting at a gate killing everyone who passes through without any thought is not real PvP.
6. It adds to "The Hunt." Assuming someone does want to perform an action in the system, they have accepted risk. It brings back belt piracy and ransoming, and since there would be a sizeable (30sec-2min) delay before jumpdrive activation, unlike how insta bookmarks work now.
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\_/ <-- My care cup, LOOK it's empty! |
Arngorf
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Posted - 2006.05.23 23:53:00 -
[12]
I can not see any reason to give an alternative to instant bookmarks... the world of eve will be a totally different.. it will keep ppl from traveling too much.. takes time and they cant instant past gatecamps.. I see no probleme except instants still working...
I like the idea "- Any BM's within 15km of the gate warp you to the gate at 15km" though it will have to be 30km.. if i got a book mark 16km behind the gate i will not get hit by that change and i will still warp in very close to the gate...
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FORMER!!! I said FORMER Pirate... |
TFace
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Posted - 2006.05.24 12:21:00 -
[13]
Edited by: TFace on 24/05/2006 12:21:54
Arkanor, interesting idea.
About the idea of not being able to use BM within the range of 15Km within the warp gate, bad idea.
Do you have any idea how long it will take a Freigther to travel not being able to jump right at a gate.
And they are made to travel very long distanses.
Also I travel sometimes every day at least 22 jumps.
And if we go on a excursion to 0.0 space to mine or hunt pc rats we always start in 0.5 space (where we have our base), and it's not nice to have to travel all the way to some nice 0.0 space with every time ending up to at least 15Km to a gate.
This way if we finaly are at our destination we already have to get back.
Or if a corp mate needs help it's nice to get there soon instead of having him have to wait a lot of hours.
With this I'm just saying that instajumps are more then just a meaning to avoid gate-camps.
It's also a way of actualy getting somewhere in the game. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.05.24 12:24:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Arngorf
I can not see any reason to give an alternative to instant bookmarks...
I do. How well will Jita deal with 5,000 people?
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Eight Ace
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Posted - 2006.05.24 14:00:00 -
[15]
Ok there are issues with this idea but, come on people this guy has come up with something I have not heard before on the old instas debate.
Gotta give the guy some credit for creative thinking there. When was the last time we heard something that was actually 'New' on this topic?
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K Shara
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Posted - 2006.05.24 14:30:00 -
[16]
oh for god sake drop the insta nerf thing.
If you restricted instas within 15km of a gate I would remake them at 20km
The way it is now, those of us who take the time make their own instas and buy them and distribute them to corp mates have the advantage.
Yes instas make it hard to gank people as they hit he gate, but you can catch them as they leave on teh other side. in 0.0 you have warp bubbles and interdictors that pwn. Trust me you wont get away from a dictor bubble
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Contraband
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zerobubble
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Posted - 2006.05.24 18:47:00 -
[17]
Originally by: K Shara
oh for god sake drop the insta nerf thing.
in 0.0 you have warp bubbles and interdictors that pwn. Trust me you wont get away from a dictor bubble
And perhaps that is the answer. Once again I am not against BM's (other then copying the damn things, ugh) and again was just stating an idea I had (actually back from when this was being discussed). But since i keep seeing 'top 5' and 'top ten' lists that have lots of 'ban instas' in them I though I would share what I felt was an acceptable compromise.
With that said I too feel dictors were the answer to instas, just not in empire.
Well, I have given my 2isks, maybe I will post about something again in another 3 years :)
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.05.24 19:42:00 -
[18]
Destoyers (T1), warp inaccuracy bubble launchers. Usable in lowsec. Sorted. (And it takes destroyers away from stepping on AF's does..they could lose some guns and gain some tank for this sort of ability)
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Prescience
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Posted - 2006.05.24 21:35:00 -
[19]
Arkanor, your idea is very innovative and far reaching, it would radically (sp) alter the feel of the game requiring much more to be available in each system. Your idea would work in a much smaller version of the game, not as 0.0 currently stands. If say, hydrogen fuel (for example) were to be harvested from the sun, it could be possible. I dont think people are ready for such a massive change though.
I know it before you do.
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