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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1113
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
We of the CSM are considering the shift to internally assigned duties without the titles that go along with them. We will continue to do our tasks and people may step forward as things present themselves. One might take over being the whip for the minutes, another focus on being the liaison to the devs. Me, I have stepped forward as a veteran of the Eve-O forums and will let you know when things are happening.
Or answer questions.
I am good at making tinfoil hats. Please do not force me to use that skill.
This is NOT an attack on any CSM9's worthiness for the position but rather the thinking that we have outgrown the previous structure.
Questions? Comments? Fire away
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
DJ FunkyBacon
Eve Radio Corporation
240
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yes, Comrade Azariah. CSM9 Factional Warfare/Lowsec Representative Radio Host, Blogger, Lowsec Resident, PvP Afficionado. http://funkybacon.blogspot.com http://twitter.com/FunkyBacon |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
379
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
I support and/or endorse this statement Comrade Azariah. www.crossingzebras.com |
HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
832
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm suspicious of any CSM who isn't for a blatant powergrab
Or did you all just vote for yourselves, canceling out any chance for a winner because I'm much more inclined to believe that Follow me on twitter |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
4619
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
I have some concerns about you guys doing this before the new CSM members have had a chance to carefully consider things. In the past, the titles have mostly been meaningless, but CCP has said there is some value for them in having the titles. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Ali Aras
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
702
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Considering? Hell, we've already decided. CSM 9 will be the first CSM with no chair at all. Following the shift to STV voting and elected officers, Chair has been more of a vanity title than an actual position-- now no CSM is off the hook to get work done, and nobody can rest on their laurels.
I know a lot of people were expecting me to pick the chair thing up, but I'm wholeheartedly behind this, and it's been a team effort-- the idea, for instance, came from Sugar Kyle, one of the new elects. It's a good team so far.
And yes, the technical term for fellow CSM members is Comrade, as Comrades Xander and FunkyBacon have already demonstrated. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
41
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Clearly a trap - http://i.imgur.com/TyQ9jWW.jpg |
Ali Aras
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
702
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Two step wrote:I have some concerns about you guys doing this before the new CSM members have had a chance to carefully consider things. In the past, the titles have mostly been meaningless, but CCP has said there is some value for them in having the titles. I talked to CCP about this back when CCP announced they were delaying officer selection to the Summits. We'll have enough internal structure so that the functions of the titles are still fulfilled ( Designated Minutes Buttmonkey, Designated CSM Buttmonkey ), but the external part is completely unnecessary and divisive besides. As an added bonus, the issue delayed selection solves-- selecting an officer before you've seen how CSM works together-- is resolved by role-swapping being much, much easier when it doesn't go along with external ~stuff~. http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog |
Niden
Moira. Villore Accords
34
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mike mate, voted for you, so glad you made it for a second term.
2 quick ones: If there are no assigned roles is there a chance certain things might not get done because everyone assumes someone else will take care of it? Given the high level of competence on the council I'm sure you've thought of this, I'd like to know the reasoning.
Also how did you decide to do it this way and did CCP have anything to say about it?
/N Moira. corp | Villore Accords alliance | Gallente militia | Crossing Zebras writer @Niden_GMVA |
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc Zero Hour Alliance
322
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:We of the CSM ... thinking that we have outgrown the previous structure.
Apart from the minority of CSM members that continue their seat, I don't think the CSM is able to properly judge that they have outgrown anything. |
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Sion Kumitomo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.05.06 19:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
To echo Comrade Ali, the chair and other positions have become figurehead positions for people who desire e-importance and has no place in a council of peers. Additionally, we as a CSM collectively decided that waiting on quarter of our term to elect positions as CCP wished was ridiculous. So we tossed out the old model and made our own.
And now IGÇÖm going to call all of us comrade for the next year. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
20
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:Considering? Hell, we've already decided. CSM 9 will be the first CSM with no chair at all. Following the shift to STV voting and elected officers, Chair has been more of a vanity title than an actual position-- now no CSM is off the hook to get work done, and nobody can rest on their laurels.
I know a lot of people were expecting me to pick the chair thing up, but I'm wholeheartedly behind this, and it's been a team effort-- the idea, for instance, came from Sugar Kyle, one of the new elects. It's a good team so far.
And yes, the technical term for fellow CSM members is Comrade, as Comrades Xander and FunkyBacon have already demonstrated.
"Now no CSM is off the hook..." Sorry, but no CSM member is "on the hook" for anything either. I suppose in the end we can't really hold anyone accountable anyway. As such, and being a "team", the entire CSM should bask or burn as a whole. Nobody will be allowed to point the finger at even the weakest link. |
Hendrick Tallardar
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
169
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:We of the CSM are considering the shift to internally assigned duties without the titles that go along with them. We will continue to do our tasks and people may step forward as things present themselves. One might take over being the whip for the minutes, another focus on being the liaison to the devs. Me, I have stepped forward as a veteran of the Eve-O forums and will let you know when things are happening.
Or answer questions.
I am good at making tinfoil hats. Please do not force me to use that skill.
This is NOT an attack on any CSM9's worthiness for the position but rather the thinking that we have outgrown the previous structure.
Questions? Comments? Fire away
m
Why don't you like Hedliner? :( LeeSsang. Never Forget. |
Mangala Solaris
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1023
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
This decision taken by my Comrades and myself is a decision I wholeheartedly agree with and support. RvB Ganked: EVE's Number One Public Roam |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2589
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
i like chairs eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
368
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm very happy with this.
Ali Aras wrote:Two step wrote:I have some concerns about you guys doing this before the new CSM members have had a chance to carefully consider things. In the past, the titles have mostly been meaningless, but CCP has said there is some value for them in having the titles. I talked to CCP about this back when CCP announced they were delaying officer selection to the Summits. We'll have enough internal structure so that the functions of the titles are still fulfilled ( Designated Minutes Buttmonkey, Designated CSM Buttmonkey ), but the external part is completely unnecessary and divisive besides. As an added bonus, the issue delayed selection solves-- selecting an officer before you've seen how CSM works together-- is resolved by role-swapping being much, much easier when it doesn't go along with external ~stuff~.
The added bonus is we now don't have to waste time at the first summit sorting this out, but can get on to the important stuff of making Eve better. Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1464
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:Following the shift to STV voting and elected officers, Chair has been more of a vanity title than an actual position. With all due respect, we've only had one chair since shifting to STV. There is some value to having a bully pulpiteer and a Decider, both roles a Chairperson would be appropriate to fill.
That said I support CSM9's decision to experiment with a different path and I hope it works out as they hope. "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart." -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |
Xander Phoena
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
379
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dirk MacGirk wrote:How did you not decide to get rid of the permanent member positions as well? I mean, using the STV and "team" stuff should mean you are all equal.
Voters chose the top two so we have no right to refuse them that choice. They do not and would not choose the officer positions. www.crossingzebras.com |
roigon
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
82
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Calling it first, all this talk about no chairs is just because it's getting replaced with a throne, and they will all fight and backstab each other to sit on it, until some lady with dragons comes along. |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
20
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xander Phoena wrote:Dirk MacGirk wrote:How did you not decide to get rid of the permanent member positions as well? I mean, using the STV and "team" stuff should mean you are all equal. Voters chose the top two so we have no right to refuse them that choice. They do not and would not choose the officer positions.
Well, politicians ignore the will of the voter quite regularly. At one point the "voters" chose the chairman too. Things change. Typically by way of a change to the "white paper" aka the CSM Constitution. But I guess a simple majority vote works too.
If nothing else, this sets good precedent for making any kind of change with each successive CSM. |
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corebloodbrothers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
587
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
I support and/or endorse this statement the honourable Comrade Azariah made, and am whipping my dragons in position, its all part of the providence master plan to conquer eve. i shoudl have never made the space communism tweet... omg this is gonna hunt us for 1 year, the red csm 9 seats |
Sugar Kyle
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
576
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Posted - 2014.05.06 20:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
roigon wrote:Calling it first, all this talk about no chairs is just because it's getting replaced with a throne, and they will all fight and backstab each other to sit on it, until some lady with dragons comes along.
Calling us Dragon ladies already Roigon? Low Sec Lifestyle - A Blog |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3180
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Posted - 2014.05.06 21:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Where are my Dragons!?
And yes, Comrade Azariah is correct We considered it, talked it over, and came to a collective decision.
Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Konrad Kane
102
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Posted - 2014.05.06 21:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Where's the dev blog showing how many people couldn't be bothered to vote? |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1117
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Posted - 2014.05.06 21:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
/me is laughing.
My phrasing of 'considering' was a tad hesitant. This is mainly paranoid caution on my part and, as you can see above, we have unanimity of purpose with in the council.
In answer to 'what if some job is missed' well we will cross that bridge when we come to it but I am sure that we have enough watchers on the outside to nag and shove us along, not to mention some people within who try to keep things rolling.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
20
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Posted - 2014.05.06 21:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
I've seen reference to waiting 3 months before choosing a chairperson, so if they could wait that long then why is it necessary at all. But when did this change? According to the CSM White Paper, "Within seven days of the general election, Representatives must hold an internal vote to determine Officers: Chairman, Vice-Chairman, Secretary and Vice-Secretary." - CSM White Paper
These roles are further outlined in the CSM White Paper, you know, that thing a previous CSM and CCP agreed to as the basis for how the CSM is run.
"The CSM is a GÇ£flatGÇ¥ organization, and Officers do not have special powers, only additional responsibilities. The responsibilities of the Chairman and Vice-Chairman are to handle official communications between the CSM and CCP, and they are expected to be particularly active in interacting with the community. The responsibilities of the Secretary and Vice-Secretary are related to the production of official CSM publications such as the CSM Summit Minutes. Thus, CSM Officers are expected to be the most active members of the CSM."
Yeah, none of that sounds necessary. God knows we get the minutes in a timely manner. Perhaps now we'll also get the finger pointing related to who is and who isn't "actively interacting with the community." I imagine that will be the same people who actively interact with the community now. They just won't be called anything other than "Comrade".
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Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
20
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
The settlement of the CSM problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all New Eden may find peace. This morning I had another talk with the CSM Chancellor, Herr Azaria, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as mine. Some of you, perhaps, have already heard what it contains but I would just like to read it to you: ' ... We regard the agreement signed last night as symbolic of the desire of our peoples never to go to war with one another again.'
My good friends, for the first time in our history, we have solidified the minority hold on government power, bringing peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time.
- Neville FunkyBacon
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Jaro Essa
Dahkur Forge
11
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Posted - 2014.05.06 23:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:Calling us Dragon ladies already Roigon?
Mother of Jaguars. |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3494
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Posted - 2014.05.06 23:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
I guess this makes me The Last Chairman.
Either I did the job so well that everyone on CSM9 knows they would be compared to me and found wanting, or (more likely) I demonstrated through masterful inaction that the CSM has transcended the need for a central figure of authority.
I am comfortable with either interpretation Private Citizen GÇó CSM in recovery |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
152
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Posted - 2014.05.06 23:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote: My phrasing of 'considering' was a tad hesitant. This is mainly paranoid caution on my part and, as you can see above, we have unanimity of purpose with in the council.
So you admit to misleading us(purposely or not) about the status of the decision in the same thread that you inform us you will be the forum voice for the CSM? Bold strategy... |
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