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Arma sniper VS Apoc sniper (after patch)

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Shaa Ku	Posted - 2006.05.25 16:40:00 - [1] is the 4% bonus to tachyon damage enough to give it the edge over the geddon or do u guys still recomend going for the Armageddon for Fleet fights. In my world 4% seems a bit less for the huge fitting reqerments a tachyon needs.
O'Sirius	Posted - 2006.05.25 16:44:00 - [2] I've allways thought Apoc was preferrable for fleet fights to start with.
Over There	Posted - 2006.05.25 17:11:00 - [3] Edited by: Over There on 25/05/2006 17:12:37 I'd be interested to see if anyone has the numbers for which does more dmg (assuming all skills to lvl5 and t2 ammo), apoc with 8 tach II's or the geddon with 7, i'd have thought geddon due to the rof bonus per lvl; but would like it confirmed by someone who's bothered to work it out. Obviously the apoc would still have a higher alpha strike but how long would it take for the geddon's dps to over take the apoc's higher dmg per volley?
Katsumoto	Posted - 2006.05.25 17:21:00 - [4] Edited by: Katsumoto on 25/05/2006 17:21:52 geddon outdamages the apoc even with 2 t2 reactor controls in low slots to fit more tachs... if my memory is correct. DPS that is, and im not sure if the apoc does have a higher alpha strike. "White light. Doo doo too doo. alcohol, alcohol, alcohol, white light!"
DeathWarrior	Posted - 2006.05.25 17:23:00 - [5] Aye geddon outdamages.. but geddon can't sustain it without gimping ur setup Originally by: Tuxford I once tried to kick my brother when I had my pants around my ankle. Probably not my brightest moments.
Shaa Ku	Posted - 2006.05.25 17:24:00 - [6] If that is true why not scrap the tachyons al togeter? Anyone tested that with the new 4% bonus?
Over There	Posted - 2006.05.25 17:30:00 - [7] Edited by: Over There on 25/05/2006 17:31:03 Originally by: Katsumoto Edited by: Katsumoto on 25/05/2006 17:21:52 geddon outdamages the apoc even with 2 t2 reactor controls in low slots to fit more tachs... if my memory is correct. DPS that is, and im not sure if the apoc does have a higher alpha strike. Logically the apoc has to have a higher dmg alpha strike...it has 8 guns as opposed to 7, can fit the same amount of dmg mods as a geddon and neither actually get a straight dmg bonus..the geddon's rof bonus only comes into play after the first volley. Btw shar ku, we're talking about tachs on both, I assumed that's what you meant initially too.
Shaa Ku	Posted - 2006.05.25 17:38:00 - [8] wel tachs on geddon did`nt acctualy know that was a fitting ppl used!
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.05.25 17:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Shaa Ku wel tachs on geddon did`nt acctualy know that was a fitting ppl used! I didn't know people fitted tachs on an apoc The geddon is the master when it comes to damage, the apoc is the king of amarr tanking.
Shadows Vale	Posted - 2006.05.25 17:52:00 - [10] I'm kinda new to Battleships, but I've managed to squeeze 7 Tachyon Afocal Maser Is onto my Apoc without taking out any of my active armor-hardeners, damage control, armor repair, etc from my lows. I figure if I put in one or two good reactor controls I could fit that 8th...using a Malkuth HML right now. I have to admit it's a bunch more fun than the Prophecy...and even makes me think twice about taking the Armageddon out!!
Shaa Ku	Posted - 2006.05.25 17:55:00 - [11] so an 7 tachs geddon is the way to do it i quess. u get the 4% bonus and the rof bonus. Hmm think i will have to play with my fittings a bitt more!
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.05.25 19:04:00 - [12] Originally by: DeathWarrior Aye geddon outdamages.. but geddon can't sustain it without gimping ur setup Doesn't need to in a fleet situation, thankfully
DeathWarrior	Posted - 2006.05.25 19:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Shaa Ku so an 7 tachs geddon is the way to do it i quess. u get the 4% bonus and the rof bonus. Hmm think i will have to play with my fittings a bitt more! For Fleet use Apoc. And if u can't use an apoc then use mega beams on the geddon.. Originally by: Tuxford I once tried to kick my brother when I had my pants around my ankle. Probably not my brightest moments.
Over There	Posted - 2006.05.25 20:24:00 - [14] Originally by: DeathWarrior For Fleet use Apoc. And if u can't use an apoc then use mega beams on the geddon.. Why? Both long and short range the geddon outdamages the apoc; and if you're in a fleet what use is a superior tank? The only other consideration I could come up with for using the apoc is the extra cap for sustainability, but unless you're shooting at a pos or station it's not really an issue anyway I find. About the only difference between my long range geddon and apoc setups is that the apoc has one more tach II and a large rep instead of a medium one (both have plates and 3xhsII etc), in a fleet battle if there's focus fire on you you're gonna go down rep or no rep really (unless you're aligned at speed in which case you're fine) so it makes little difference. Hence why use the apoc in a fleet? Why use mega beams on the geddon if you can happily fit tachs?
Daxes	Posted - 2006.05.25 21:05:00 - [15] A geddon cant outdamage an apoc in long range fleet fights (thats 180km+ nowadays) because it simply cant fit 2sb and 2 tc's and with only 1 TC it will do a lot less damage (the apoc will have a much better optimal thus hitting harder), not to mention that the geddon alphastrike is lower and before the rof comes into play the target is already dead.
Over There	Posted - 2006.05.25 21:23:00 - [16] True; but it can fit a tracking comp and a tracking enhancer or two, and imo since the rof difference comes into play after the first volley, and not everyone uses or can use t2 long range ammo, the geddon still comes out on top over the apoc overall in both small and large fleets.
DeathWarrior	Posted - 2006.05.25 21:29:00 - [17] Edited by: DeathWarrior on 25/05/2006 21:29:20 not for large fleets tbh. in large fleets rof isn't neccesary as once 40 or so ships focus fire on 1 bs. The targets dead.. in a volley. Which is why Apoc is better , " bigger alpha strike ". Originally by: Tuxford I once tried to kick my brother when I had my pants around my ankle. Probably not my brightest moments.
Over There	Posted - 2006.05.25 21:35:00 - [18] Ok, you've probably got a point about most large fleets; but even then when you factor in lag, ppl without t2 ammo, reloading times for ppl with ammo and the delayed dmg of scorp and ravens you'll end up often getting in more than one volley on a target.
Necrologic	Posted - 2006.05.25 21:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Over There Ok, you've probably got a point about most large fleets; but even then when you factor in lag, ppl without t2 ammo, reloading times for ppl with ammo and the delayed dmg of scorp and ravens you'll end up often getting in more than one volley on a target. Never been in a fleet fight? I'd actually say geddon is still better than apoc for fleets. Apoc gets more damage at longer ranges with t1 guns, but if you've got t2 ammo either will hit out to the regular ranges easily enough. Also there's the large factor of cost. If you get targeted and arn't aligned at full speed you are dead in either, and geddon is far cheaper and only does slightly less alpha strike.
Over There	Posted - 2006.05.25 21:42:00 - [20] Edited by: Over There on 25/05/2006 21:43:03 Yes, many....can't you tell from the fact that I'm thinking about lag [and I meant with regard to 180km+ engagements that someone mentioned]
DeathWarrior	Posted - 2006.05.25 21:53:00 - [21] In fleets tend to have Ravens on secondry or tertiary targets. Originally by: Tuxford I once tried to kick my brother when I had my pants around my ankle. Probably not my brightest moments.
Over There	Posted - 2006.05.25 21:58:00 - [22] Aye of course, just trying to say in a convoluted way that regardless of ideals, in practice you do often get more than one volley off on a target in fleet battles of all sizes and at all ranges..hence if you have bs 5 the geddon becomes, overall more useful imo.
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.05.25 22:36:00 - [23] Originally by: DeathWarrior Edited by: DeathWarrior on 25/05/2006 21:29:20 not for large fleets tbh. in large fleets rof isn't neccesary as once 40 or so ships focus fire on 1 bs. The targets dead.. in a volley. Which is why Apoc is better , " bigger alpha strike ". I still dont necc agree with this. If your fleet has 40 people shooting at one bs then your fleet commander sucks. Anyway, for the type of flying I do dps is king over alpha strike.
Edhel	Posted - 2006.05.25 23:52:00 - [24] arma is better imho, you just get so much better dps, if you're in larger fleets dps will factor in not just alpha strike.
Frools	Posted - 2006.05.26 10:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Originally by: DeathWarrior Aye geddon outdamages.. but geddon can't sustain it without gimping ur setup Doesn't need to in a fleet situation, thankfully i've run out of cap in a fleet fight with a megabeam geddon, let alone a tachygeddon that sucked :\

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