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Silver Striker
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Posted - 2003.09.24 00:13:00 -
[1]
This latest blurb about Techell Corp having a special deal about the miner II for mega instead of isk is really a slap in the face to all the players of Eve.
In case you didn't know, all you ppl working hard to earn money, upgrade your ships, etc., The Techell Corp is making it's own money in the form of Miner II's. There is no possible way you can every compete with them as they have now been able to aquire so much money by making these mining lasers that now they don't need money anymore and would rather not have to work at all and have all the minerals brought to them instead. So could you please bring us mega this week?
WTF CCP? What in gods name are you waiting for to release the BP? Either take out the laser all together or release it for everyone. If you want to release it in the form of events where it's given to players through polaris members, fine, but you need to give it to MORE ppl. I've not heard of it being distributed at all since the "incident".
Please either remove it from the game or release teh BP on the market.
On a positive note, kudos on releasing the implants in a way that all players can benefit from in one way or another.
That's fantastic, really, but we need more COW BELL!!!! |
Sarae
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Posted - 2003.09.24 01:51:00 -
[2]
Agreed. This corporation favoritism sucks. Either make it widely available, or take it out. You've given a select few a huge advantage over the rest of us. And worse, you have done nothing to remedy the situation. Please do something!
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convo
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Posted - 2003.09.24 05:48:00 -
[3]
as i said on www.eve-i.com we and many other corps have mined a long time to get a BS bp like the apocalypse. at first it sold for 110 mil which made a nice profit now its down to almost mineral cost.... the techhell corp can sell the miner II for whatever they like cause theres no other having it.. ( almost ) we call that monopol in denmark and infact its against the law... now what i ask is ccp communist ??? or do they have players in those corps having the bp or what since they dont do anything to the situation. its very frustrating to see that what other mined for MONTHS to get drops fast in price and what others got by incident they make milions on... not a fair situation. and proberly the biggest mistake ( beside this patch ) that ccp ever did.... people atm are frustrated and tired of the game.... so if nothing soon happends i predict player loss..
regards metz
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.09.24 05:57:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
.... the techhell corp can sell the miner II for whatever they like cause theres no other having it.. ( almost ) we call that monopol in denmark and infact its against the law... now what i ask is ccp communist ???
Congratulations, I think that's the most utterly ridiculous post I've ever seen. You wnt to criticize CCP for allowing a monopoly to exist, fine, go ahead, but it's the absolute and total opposite of communism. EVE is a pure capitalist state - anybody who has the will and ability to make money, does so, as much as he or she wants. Techell has the bp's, ppl want to buy the product, so they can whatever they damn well please.
NB. I'm not saying that's a justified position, or that I like it. Just pointing out that that's a pure capitalist position, and nothing whatsoever to do with a communist one.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.24 06:50:00 -
[5]
Aye trouble is in a pure capatalyst society someone would have paid a tech technician millions to get a copy of the blue print and it would have propogated out to all. Or someone would have reverse engineered the item.
Manopolies are great .. NP but it cannot be like this .. The BP should be available to all if they duplicate whatever tech did to get thiers..
Oh no ang on you cant can you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2003.09.24 07:52:00 -
[6]
I do believe that CCP stated that they want to have tech 1 as the only NPC produced items...
so tech 2 and above will be only PC produced :)
why doesn't someone try to get into techell and steal the bp??
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.24 08:03:00 -
[7]
HEHE fantastic idea.
Infiltrate.
Steal.
Do a Robin Hood.
Build em at slightly above cost .. That would make the issue go away real quik!!!!!
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Dark Nyte
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Posted - 2003.09.24 08:50:00 -
[8]
Quote:
why doesn't someone try to get into techell and steal the bp??
Would anyone be dumb enought to let a none trusted member at such an important blue print?
(at very least it would take months to get in a position to steal it)
Anyway I agree with original poster that no one corp should have the only blue print... make em as hard to get as you like but make it possible (we all pay real-world money to play this gaem you know)
Plus in a pure capitalist state it would have been reverse-engineered as there would be no law to stop this.
If it were (real) communisum then everyone would have a minerII and there would be no ISK at all.
Monopoly's of this caliber are more easily compared to a dictatorship (possibly fasist?)
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.24 11:45:00 -
[9]
Bump
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Grendal X
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Posted - 2003.09.24 11:48:00 -
[10]
Capitalism at its finest...don't you think?
FIRE! |
Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2003.09.24 12:55:00 -
[11]
If this were a real communist state - we would all still be in noob frigates with basic miners. :)
and no isk.
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Gunship
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Posted - 2003.09.24 12:57:00 -
[12]
I'm all for that some big corps makes lots of cash, but only one... thats bull****!
It's needs to be at least 20 corps that have miner II BP's so they can't agree on a standard high price and REAL competition breaks out.
CCP Petition! |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.09.24 13:19:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Plus in a pure capitalist state it would have been reverse-engineered as there would be no law to stop this.
There is no law to stop it. Unfortunately the technology hasn't been invented yet.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.24 13:26:00 -
[14]
LOL niether has the miner 2 (According to devs etc)
Please Note Sarcasm 
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Dark Nyte
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Posted - 2003.09.24 16:08:00 -
[15]
Quote:
If this were a real communist state - we would all still be in noob frigates with basic miners. :)
Yeah... I really meant that if it was communist everyone would have the same thing (which i think is bad). I wasn't trying to say that communisum would give us all the best equipment...
(However having said that if communisum actually worked as it was supposed too then we would all have the best stuff only it can't work as its supposed to because of human nature... (greed is a much better motivator than helping your fellow man .. sad but true)
just to hammer home a point capitalisum thrives on competition and greed. you need both to have a successfull economy (unlike in this case where it is just greed)
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Lartfor
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Posted - 2003.09.24 23:10:00 -
[16]
Simple as this, start a boycot, what we are going to see really fast is the lack of isk being usefull (diablo 2 in a nutshell) and then the economy will really suck, even more than it does now.
The reason the economy sux is this, u have 1 corp that makes a monopoly and, then on the oposite end, its too easy to get other blue prints, so every one has them, thus u can stay competitive unless u bring your prices down to almost production cost.
Productionis not really a usefull way to make money, best ways are to farm rare npc items, or mine.
I my self will not buy a miner2, because i dont agree with the fact that they are the only ones that have them.
Release one other miner 2 BP and things will drasticly increase for the better.
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Lord Frost
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Posted - 2003.09.25 03:29:00 -
[17]
yes, miner II has been out a while... and yes big corps are getting bigger... and yes this is not fair... however, think about who is buying these miner IIs at an outrageous price. you are... the common small corp player.
i've been wanting a miner II for quite some time, but there is no way i would pay that price in a million years. the rich is getting richer, but don't blame anyone but the lame souls that buy them. if you want prices to go down... DON'T BUY! there are plenty of alternatives to mine with.
we all have our stories on how the miner II came about, personally i dont care. why doesnt everyone declare war with these corps monopolizing the bp, and put an end to all this.
its fair! its not fair! stop whining and do something about it... obviously, as history has proven, you aint gonna accomplish shi* sitting on your ass and crying about it. my god!
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 07:16:00 -
[18]
Trouble is i dont see this as an in game issue.
Its a game dynamic issue.
If this is how thge eve world is going to move forward all well and good but ..
In the mean time these corps are getting a massive hgead start while the rest of us wait for our 1 original PB that everyone will want but only we will have.
In fact it is giving these corporations the muscle to get all the new 1 copy OBC for themseve in terms of number of member and isk muscle ..
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voogru
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Posted - 2003.09.25 08:31:00 -
[19]
Edited by: voogru on 25/09/2003 08:58:59
For those of you that say we cant do anything about them, your wrong. We can do something, Its called 'War'.
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Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Guardian Enforcer, wrecking for 827.3 damage. |
Dark Nyte
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Posted - 2003.09.25 09:26:00 -
[20]
Quote:
its fair! its not fair! stop whining and do something about it... obviously,
Unfortunately if one corp has so much money how can a small corp of 12 or one person take them on?
The small corp cannont gain the money to be an equal ever because they don't have (and can't get) their own monopoly so what would you have them do? how are they going to replace their ships for the second/third/forth strike ? in the time it takes them to get a replacement ship and weapons the monopoly corp could have 6
so since you pretend to be so knowledgeable why do you share with us your you strategy for getting the blue print off them ?
Hmm do i smell an excuse coming heres a couple you could use.
[The pretend i was trying to be helpfull excuse]
I wasn't saying that i could do anything only mearly suggesting you should try something honestly i was only tring to motivate!
[The I have to let you work it out for yourself excuse]
Well if you can't work it out you don't deserve to know!
[The I'm important excuse]
Its a secret for me and my corp.
I hope you come up with a good one, i can't wait to hear it because i know you won't be able to come up with a viable methord of ending this monopoly (don't forget to include to mention how we make sure monopoly of bp doesn't continue with different corp holding the one bp btw)
Quote:
as history has proven, you aint gonna accomplish shi* sitting on your ass and crying about it. my god!
You obviously were never much good at history. ever heard of Gandi ? he litteraly sat on his arse and did nothing to accomplish something
also with your knowledge of history could you please name a few wars where a cultrally,technological and finacial inferior body (with less ppl) managed to conquer and destroy a body superior in all the above areas?
(and m8 i mean attacking and taking over (which is what we must do) so no vietnam is not an example as the US is not under vietnam's control)
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 09:41:00 -
[21]
Take a look a my idea..
Trouble is i can garrentee we wont get any takers on the bp
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=34867
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Dark Nyte
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Posted - 2003.09.25 10:49:00 -
[22]
anyone know
1) where Techell Corp HQ is ?
2) If they have Website ?
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Ka'loor
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:07:00 -
[23]
I think techell should do whatever it wants......if i think its overpriced, i aint gonna buy it......so ppl think 2.5mil for a miner 2 is ok, cause many bought em, i saw a guy doing the mega deal for the miner 2s, so the price seems right. ppl buy the miner.......if you think its too high, dont buy, compare it to a luxury, not everybody can get one, cause there so expensive, doesnt give you the irght to scream outrage at the car company.......
Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself.
Better to die with honor, than to live in shame. |
Trixxy
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:38:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Trixxy on 25/09/2003 11:52:02
I'm with Lord Frost on this one. In a captilist state, the only thing that allows a monopoly to become established is the consumer.
Basically, while the market is happy to pay exhorbitant prices for Miner IIs, the corporation that is LICENCED TO SELL THEM will be making a killing, as is their right. Consider the real world in a capatilist society: Inventor X invents killer-product Y. Inventor X copyrights it, them creates a company Z to sell it. No other company can make anything as good as Y. So company Z is an absolute monopoly. However, company Z will only make money while Y is perceived as value by those buying it.
It's the same with miner II's. CCP chose to license the rights to sell them to a single corp. The fact that prices are being made unreachable is simple supply and demand. Demand is bouying up the prices. There IS competition, in the form of many other mining lasers. Not as good, but a LOT cheaper. Simple cost benefit analysis: If the rate of improved mining offered by miner II's do not justify their increased cost over an acceptable period of time, DON'T buy them, otherwise DO buy them. It's self-regulating, trust me.
If CCP continue to show bias towards certain corps when licensing rights to sell, that's self-regulating too - players get ****ed off and leave. So I believe they will probably err on the side of fairness in the long term in the interests of their own future.
And Dark Nyte - a couple of problems with things you've said:
Dark Nyte: You obviously were never much good at history. ever heard of Gandi ? he litteraly sat on his arse and did nothing to accomplish something
Erm, Gandhi may have practiced passive resistance, but he did not do NOTHING. He was motivated and inluential enough to move an entire nation to back him. Believe me, he did not do this by sitting on his ass and doing nothing. The opposite of going to war is not 'doing nothing'. Doing nothing is doing nothing. Believe me, there is not a self-made leader in history who has got where they were by doing nothing, as much as it may seem like it by those who envy his position.
Dark Nyte: also with your knowledge of history could you please name a few wars where a cultrally,technological and finacial inferior body (with less ppl) managed to conquer and destroy a body superior in all the above areas?
The fall of the Greek Empire
The fall of the Roman Empire
The American War of Independence
Sure, in the last case, they did not conquer England. But they did take America from English control.
Sure, if a small corp wants to go to war with a big one, they'll have a problem. But if enough small corps get together and declare war on the big corp, then it is the big corp who has a problem on its hands. This is essentially what happened in the fall of the Roman and Greek empires (continual harassment by smaller 'barbarian' bands, and the complacency on the part of the empire to not bother too much about it).
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...and remember - No pain, no pain. |
Lucas Bowman
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:18:00 -
[25]
I doubt you would be crying foul if it was your corp who made the rare find. Personally, I find it absolutely stupid for people to pay such a large amount of money for just a few extra mined ores per cycle, ARE YOU MAD? I am quite certain that the Miner 2's will eventually flood the market making them all as valuable as the Miner 1's, until then, I think it it wise for Techell to exploit the bp while it's in their control. And if you are following the markets, there are far more exploiting their purchases after they make the buy from Techell.
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Bain
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:44:00 -
[26]
Just one thing we are not the only corp who has a miner 2 BP as stated in many different variations of the 'hate techell for having miner 2 BP' type threads on these forums, just one of the few who are known to have one and sell to anyone who has the asking price, and BTW we weren't given the BP (we bought it for about 1.5 billion)
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Dark Nyte
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:52:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Dark Nyte on 25/09/2003 14:19:04
Edited by: Dark Nyte on 25/09/2003 14:18:02
Edited by: Dark Nyte on 25/09/2003 14:16:23
Edited by: Dark Nyte on 25/09/2003 13:56:48
Edited by: Dark Nyte on 25/09/2003 13:55:49
Quote:
Just one thing we are not the only corp who has a miner 2 BP as stated in many different variations of the 'hate techell for having miner 2 BP' type threads on these forums, just one of the few who are known to have one and sell to anyone who has the asking price, and BTW we weren't given the BP (we bought it for about 1.5 billion)
In which case I applogise my problem was only that i was told that you had only BP for miner2 which would make a monopoly. And i am sorry for my comments in the thread if there are other miner2 bp out there
However...
greeks were basically destroyed by romans who were in no way inferior to greeks (I could be wrong on this particuallr point)
The romans were not at war with a single entity that destroyed them they were at hostile with many enties and not all of them were inferior in the terms i mention previously
(and put togeather would have outnumbered the romans)
The actual fall off the roman empire was as much about the internals of rome the split of its religious beliefs and politics rather than one outside force conquering rome
So neither of these is a case where a less powerfull,technological,finacial,poplus body conquered.
The amerian war of independece you your self pointed out they did not conquer britain and is exacly the same as my point about vietnam
To beat Techell corp and get the BP we would have had to take there base of operations their power base (their "Home Land") not just some distant system they laid claim to.
However i repeat again that attacking Techell is mute because apperently they are not only corp with blue print
oh and I would point out that one of gandis protests was sitting on his arse in a railway station doing absolutely nothing.
(as well as the fact that trying to rally ppl to a cause as he did would be called whining and crying if he did it through this forum)
Sorry would also like to point out that I don't blame Techell for selling at a certain price (supply and demand) and haven't actually said anything about them at all. All i have said that no one corp should have the only copy of a blue print.
see i can back peddle and still argue at same time 
all these edits and i still can't spell
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Trixxy
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:23:00 -
[28]
(Just continuing the debate with Dark Nyte out of interest - I reckon the point regarding Miner II's as pertaining to this thread is a dead one...  )
Your original point about Gandi was that he sat and did nothing. That point was wrong. We do not say he achieved what he did by doing nothing because of the fact that he passively sat in protest for a full day. The 'sitting and doing nothing' was actually symbolic, and was a protest - he was actually working very hard through most his life to achieve his ends through passive resistance. It was not that he was doing nothing, as you originally applied.
The criteria you are enforcing on your statement about a smaller force overcoming a bigger one are being made very restrictive just for the sake of your argument. Given the very precise constraints of your original statement, then that may not have occurred in history (although I think the defeat of Jericho and the fall of Troy may well qualify... ;-)
The PRINCIPLE, however, is that there have been many cases in history where smaller forces (in terms of man-number and resources/wealth) have taken on, and overcome seemingly impossibly bigger ones. This was by having more commitment, more ingenuity and more willingness to take on the challenge than the seemingly impossible larger opponent.
This principle remains the same in Eve. If a small corp has enough of an issue against a massively larger corp, and it is dedicated, committed and clever enough, and is prepared to do the work required to rally others to its cause, it CAN take on the bigger corp. It does take more commitment, time and effort than your average Eve player will be willing to spend though, especially as the reward is not worth the effort.
The problem in Eve is that taking on the Corp has very little point. You can't actually defeat a corp. You can just annoy them enough to eventually want to pay you off to leave them alone, and that's about it.
I would LOVE to see the ability to entirely destroy a corp, so that it loses its assets and even identity. Then there would be something to FIGHT for.
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...and remember - No pain, no pain. |
Silver Striker
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:40:00 -
[29]
I think a lot of ppl are missing the point.
This isn't a problem of one company having an edge over another, it's the fact that the items in question are not available to any other players. In the early days of battleships the ppl who bought the original blueprints were able to sell copies and make loads of money, but other players could also work their way up to buy the same blueprint. With every other item in the game there is an oppurtunity for market competition.
If they'd made the blueprints have run limits of 100 a piece then it would have been more interesting, they could have made enough lasers to recoupe their losses and had a slight advantage with better mining equipment for their corp.
An exclusive item that lets ppl produce an extremely valuable item for pennies on the dollar is basically giving them a /god command.
There are plenty of ways they could have avoided this:
1. Make the production of Miner II's cost A LOT more. It was obvious this item was going to sell for a ton of money, giving it mineral req so low was a mistake, to say the least.
2. Limited Run BP's. As mentioned above, could have made the BP's limited run so the benefit would not be infinite.
3. Have an oppurtunity for other players to get the item in events/agent missions.
That's fantastic, really, but we need more COW BELL!!!! |
Silver Striker
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:53:00 -
[30]
To put this into perspective, is this a good idea?
The next major event prize was going to be a
new Battleship blueprint Copy, unlimited runs, that produces a much more powerful ship who's mineral costs are 90% less than all the other battleships.
Would this be a good addition to the game?
That's fantastic, really, but we need more COW BELL!!!! |
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