For Dreads in PvP: Naglfar > Moros > Revelation > Chimera

Would this be correct?

I've been considering applying to larger WH corps. After reading through the guides/ect here I've come to this conclusion:

For Dreads in PvE: Moros > Revelation > Naglfar > Chimera
For Carriers: Archon > Thanatos > Others

For Dreads in PvP: Naglfar > Moros > Revelation > Chimera
For Carriers in PvP: ****** if I know; either Archon or Chimera would be best?



Would this be correct?

I've been considering applying to larger WH corps. After reading through the guides/ect here I've come to this conclusion:

For Dreads in PvE: Moros > Revelation > Naglfar > Chimera
For Carriers: Archon > Thanatos > Others

For Dreads in PvP: Naglfar > Moros > Revelation > Chimera
For Carriers in PvP: ****** if I know; either Archon or Chimera would be best?



Would this be correct?

For dreads both the Moros and Naglfar make up the vast majority in w-space for both PvE and PvP. The Phoenix will certainly be making some interesting appearances with the buffs out early next month.

As for carriers I would say the Archon obviously and the Nid are the two most common. Chimera's are really only used in a Pulsar - have never seen it fielded outside of one, and I've never seen a Thanatos fielded in w-space at all.

Chimera is not a Dread :)

At the moment your pretty much correct. However consider that some w-space has effects that can greatly boost or nerf capital ships. Make sure you read up about them and consider how those would effect your ship.

Also, something else for you to consider is that when you fly in w-space, you're always doing pvp- whether you like it or not. =)

As for carriers I would say the Archon obviously and the Nid are the two most common. Chimera's are really only used in a Pulsar - have never seen it fielded outside of one, and I've never seen a Thanatos fielded in w-space at all.

Chimera is not a Dread :)

Personally I have come to love the Nidhoggur over the Archon.

Better reps, better tank, better cap recharge rate, and it looks better.

The only really glaring downfall is that it does not have near the capacitor capacity that the Archon does.

Personally I have come to love the Nidhoggur over the Archon.
Better reps, better tank, better cap recharge rate, and it looks better.

Chimera is not a Dread :)

Soon the phoenix will have its time in the sun.

Especially since it appears to be a phoenix circle jerk at CCP right now.

4% shield per level for the already best tanked dread. Oh they can't hit sig boosted dreads for full without a rig. Will just increase all dreads sig. They will suck vs subcaps but will be deadly to capitals, especially when sitting at 50-60km away.

Luckily their capacitor still blows. But as if we needed more incentive to stay away from pulsars, where the phoenixs short comings will be strengthened.

Soon the phoenix will have its time in the sun.

Especially since it appears to be a phoenix circle jerk at CCP right now.

4% shield per level for the already best tanked dread. Oh they can't hit sig boosted dreads for full without a rig. Will just increase all dreads sig. They will suck vs subcaps but will be deadly to capitals, especially when sitting at 50-60km away.

Luckily their capacitor still blows. But as if we needed more incentive to stay away from pulsars, where the phoenixs short comings will be strengthened.

Soon the phoenix will have its time in the sun.

Especially since it appears to be a phoenix circle jerk at CCP right now.

4% shield per level for the already best tanked dread. Oh they can't hit sig boosted dreads for full without a rig. Will just increase all dreads sig. They will suck vs subcaps but will be deadly to capitals, especially when sitting at 50-60km away.

Luckily their capacitor still blows. But as if we needed more incentive to stay away from pulsars, where the phoenixs short comings will be strengthened.

But that one time.

All those skill points will be worth it lol.

Disclaimer: I can't/don't fly phoenixs.

I will say that the pheonix is probably the best wh roller ever. It's big and fat and if it gets tackled... it's got a super tank and who cares (they are cheap-ish).

if by cheap-ish you mean the most expensive dread on the market, sure.

Funny to see people still talking about PVE/PVP dreads, or PVE/PVP carriers.
The only difference I can think of is that the PVE versions would be T2 fit only? -shrugs-.

for carriers there's no fitting difference.
for dreads there's a huge difference.
PVE dreads are armour tanked, 4-6 tracking mod, seboed fits while PVP dreads are full tank shield fits with no tracking mods.

PVE dreads are armour tanked, 4-6 tracking mod, seboed fits while PVP dreads are full tank shield fits with no tracking mods.

You might be surprised at how well armour dreads do in PvP. You should look into it.

Bonus points for fielding them with Archons to get armour reps.

You might be surprised at how well armour dreads do in PvP. You should look into it.

Bonus points for fielding them with Archons to get armour reps.

You might be surprised at how well armour dreads do in PvP. You should look into it.

Bonus points for fielding them with Archons to get armour reps.

lol, ok bro ;)

Armor dreads are ****.

For actual dread vs. dread fights, shield fits sh*t on armour so hard that i cant believe youre even trying to have this discussion.

Hell, even a shield revelation is better in a cap fight than any armour fit.

PS: you dont compare 2 rep, 2 eanm fits to 1 booster, 2 invuls, you need to compare it to 1 booster, 2 invuls and 3 boost amps. like i said, its NOT even remotely close.

In your fitting example you are using 4 lows for your armor tank and 3 for the shield. What happens to your eft numbers when you add a shield boost amp?

But please everyone keep using armor dreads. Even 1 rep armor dreads are superior to shield dreads in every way. Don't waste fitting on tank or cap either, just full damage, tracking, and scan res. Oh and make sure to rig for the same, tech 2 damage and tracking works best. You will be completely safe.

Btw. A shield boost and a couple adaptives a shield dread makes not.

For dreads both the Moros and Naglfar make up the vast majority in w-space for both PvE and PvP. The Phoenix will certainly be making some interesting appearances with the buffs out early next month.

As for carriers I would say the Archon obviously and the Nid are the two most common. Chimera's are really only used in a Pulsar - have never seen it fielded outside of one, and I've never seen a Thanatos fielded in w-space at all.

Uh top kek meights.

Fact is that shield dreads are better in all scenarios. They have higher burst tank and higher dps which is literally all that ever matters. If you need to hit subcaps, you just ******* REFIT MID COMBAT like any sane person. You can talk all you want about comparing armor fits that have 4 slots of tank vs shield fits with 4 slots of tank but that's always irrelevant because shield fits can actually use a full tank setup whereas armor fits can't, unless you want to lose all of your lows (and even then, as I have said, they're still ******* worse).

Armor fits have no advantage ever over shield fits. They waste two slots for unrefittable modules instead of just one, they have significantly lower (and when I say significantly, I mean on the order of 50k dps tanked) burst tank (and when I said burst i really mean 5 minutes of sustained tank), and their mid slots are absolutely ******* useless for dread v dread fights.

I'll reconsider when speed tanked dreads becomes a think and TC's are useful in dread v dread fights.

Fact is if you fight armor dreads v shield dreads the armor dreads will get rekt 100% of the time. If you think otherwise then continue being ignorant and we can all laugh when you get destroyed by any modern dread fleet.

Also, bringing cost into this is stupid because frankly cost never has been, is not, and will never be a balancing factor. If you care about cost when you're flying multi-billion isk dread fits then you're a bloody pansy and shouldn't be flying a dread in the first place.

Fact is that shield dreads are better in all scenarios.

Armor fits have no advantage ever over shield fits.

Except that actually having twice as many hitpoints is a pretty big advantage....

Yes, first of all there is the fact that you'll pretty much never be in a scenario where you won't be able to rep long enough for your net ehp to be higher than that of an armor dread with slaves.

It's actually not even close to double.



2 or more Neut Legions will do it. Any serious capital gank squad will have at least 2.

Also, if you're going to do thought experiments, you have to actually put some thought into it and use fits that have a chance of being fielded that isn't zero.

EDIT:
My numbers show that 2 neut Legions will run the Revelation out of cap in 2m34s and the Naglfar in 2m31s. They also show that the Naglfar is repping a couple thousand more per second. So assuming that once your cap reaches 0, you stay there for the duration, the total eHP of the two ships is as follows (taking into account all 3 layers of defence, as well as overheating)

Revelation: 13,247,000 eHP
Naglfar: 12,065,764 eHP

If we remove the neut Legions, it looks like this:
Revelation: 15,088,632 eHP
Naglfar: 13,907,834 eHP

So you're actually never going to match the eHP of a Revelation. Interestingly, shooting those ships with 2 Naglfars ends up with both ships taking more than 9 minutes to die (10 for the Rev). This tells me that if you have enough carriers on field that you can cap chain, you should never lose Dreadnaughts.

But of course almost no one seems to carry the fits required to do this, and so people can lose capitals when they get dropped.

Phoenix is going to be even worse after this.

Don't waste your time and SP like I did.

Incidently, THIS is the applied damage curves against a webbed and painted neut legion. Red is an armour fit Revelation with no heat sinks. Blue is a shield fit Naglfar with 3 gyros, 2 TEs and double the EFT damage. But yeah, armour fits are complete crap. This turns out much different against other Dreadnaughts obviously.

Ok so they're basically the same except that the nag actually is doing dps the whole time. Good to know

This is what I see:

Nag: http://puu.sh/8UU6H.png

Rev: http://puu.sh/8UU7y.png

And while not a fault of shield vs armor tanks, the rev has **** damage types.

I see no redeeming factors for armor tanking dreads whatsoever. Armor is ****.

How does it look when the naglfar (with same fit, compared to same rev) uses tracking ammo?

Also one thing that haven't been mentioned is the ability for shield dreads to refit armour hardeners when their tank is about to break. If an armour dread is struggling to tank it may manage to exit siege in low armour or structure, but a shield dread will have both armour and structure to be 'caught' in.

Yeah, except your rev is dead LONG before it reps all that because it can't tank the 3 dreads shooting it while the nag can.

I'd say pheonix is viable .... tanks 3 dreads for 4 minutes (permaboosting) while laughing without overheating or blue pill while dealing 6k dps .... but yes guys if you only go for tank, I'd place mybids on the pheonix :)

For PvP well......... i prefer a dread which can't be undertracked by orbiting at 500,if you only have 1-2 dreads this can happen to Nag, Rev & Moros

But hey, i'd say if you can't agree an opinion, fight for it

Post patch pheonix is going to be very interesting... 50K dps tank is awesome but the damage application of them is still sketchy.

Phoenix is going to be even worse after this.

Don't waste your time and SP like I did.


I only hold onto hope that some day my SP will be vindicated when I buy a Levi :S

You guys are funny. I've actually tried out the phoenix on sisi and I can say that nailing a hyperion for a 30K volley was pretty nice. Yes it was with cruise missiles. Yes the target had two painters on it and I had 2 T1 rigor rigs. He was probably also webbed at least once. However if you are tracking an orbiting BS with the moros without any ewar support...you're a liar.

The Phoenix is also probably the best read to pve with inside a black hole as it only gets penalized once on missile velocity...which after the patch will matter a bit less due to increased velocity.

This is Blap-Dread DPS against a webbed (x4) and painted (x2) Legion. Blue is Moros, green is Naglfar and red is Revelation. That solid line that ***** on the other three until 35kms? That's the Phoenix.

Hi there.

Please shush.

Hi there.

Eat a bag of dicks.

I'll just leave this here...

This is Blap-Dread DPS against a webbed (x4) and painted (x2) Legion. Blue is Moros, green is Naglfar and red is Revelation. That solid line that ***** on the other three until 35kms? That's the Phoenix.