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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 70 post(s) |
Danny Centauri
Manu Fortius space weaponry and trade
92
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Posted - 2014.05.21 13:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Would it be possible to get some sample data to play with to give better feedback. I'm really interested in making copy/build times a multiple of the ranks you proposed however its much easier for you to pull a nice organised table of this data for different BPOs straight from the DB than it is for us to pull it manually.
Even if its 20 ships and modules across different classes giving build times and copy times we can really help give much better input with some data that we can play around with in excel. If there's a database dump anywhere of all of this static data somewhere we can manipulate even better just point the right general direction. EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players. |
Danny Centauri
Manu Fortius space weaponry and trade
92
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Posted - 2014.05.21 16:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Danny Centauri wrote:Would it be possible to get some sample data to play with to give better feedback. I'm really interested in making copy/build times a multiple of the ranks you proposed however its much easier for you to pull a nice organised table of this data for different BPOs straight from the DB than it is for us to pull it manually.
Even if its 20 ships and modules across different classes giving build times and copy times we can really help give much better input with some data that we can play around with in excel. If there's a database dump anywhere of all of this static data somewhere we can manipulate even better just point the right general direction. I think the blueprint data is in the SDE, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I'll see what I can do about dumping out what I have once the spreadsheet is in a good state. Right now, I'm working on assigning ranks to stuff like structures so I can math everything at once.
Hopefully this will help most people followed probag Bears advice - link to download EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players. |
Danny Centauri
Manu Fortius space weaponry and trade
92
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Posted - 2014.05.21 19:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Item - ME1 Research time- New Rank- ME 5% Research time 200mm AutoCannon I - 12,000 - 1 - 3,360 Punisher - 120,000 - 20 - 67,200 Blackbird - 240,000 - 40 - 134,400 Raven - 360,000 - 60 - 201,600 Cyclone - 360,000 - 50 - 168,000 Moros - 5,120,000 - 200 - 672,000 Leviathan - 20,480,000 - 600 - 2,016,000
OK pretty sure I've done something special with ME1 being converted to ME5% I presumed these were the same so would be similar time requirements but everything seems a tad off... would really appreciate someone pointing me in the right direction I've clearly missed something. EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players. |
Danny Centauri
Manu Fortius space weaponry and trade
92
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 13:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:I like the consistency but I do have a concern and that is time investment in specialism to get the best or be the most productive. I feel there's not enough of this. Some items do require some time investment in skilling (some T2, like Covert Ops Cloaks) and A LOT of slot time investment in copying. For example copying the prototype cloak 3 x max runs takes well over 20 days (with a 5% copy time implant at a POS). If you reduce copy down to build time but don't increase skill requirements, absolutely anyone will be able to do it with minimal character specialisation.
I think character specialisation is a good thing. I want to be "elite" and that implies that not everyone and their mother have been willing to put 20m skill points into it to get the best out of it. You're already doing this with refining, for which I'm currently specialising one character. I think it should be the same with manufacture and invention.
Also, obligatory take T2 BPOs out of the game comment.
I'm sat on the other side of the fence on this one, personally I believe that industry should be easy get into but difficult to master. The elite should simply not exist and players should be forced to change what they are building on a regular basis to maintain the best profits.
This would make the restrictive factor to success the number of blueprints you own and diversity of your portfolio of products alternatively it forces industry to involve more social interaction. Really wish the market/contracting system better facilitated the sale of BPCs so that specialist science research/copy/invention corporations started to pop up which effectively act as suppliers for manufacturing.
Personally managing manufacturing on a large scale working with suppliers for T1 hulls and BPCs was some of my most fun work along with negotiating prices and long term deals. I actually felt a lot more like part of the EVE community interacting with the economy compared to when I simply built from the BPOs I owned.
Additionally I believe CCP have the goal of moving indy profits over to player skill. This can be seen in the mechanic where job installation cost is higher in busier systems. This means the most aware players can optimise their costs better than the lazy who build in one station. Building one item in EVE is easy mode and really shouldn't be rewarded to the same extent as moving locations and changing what your building to find the best profits.
EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players. |
Danny Centauri
Manu Fortius space weaponry and trade
95
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Posted - 2014.06.07 12:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just considering the blanket 50% increase in base T2 materials.
The old ME -4 was 50% off perfect build materials whilst the new ME 0% is 9.1% off perfection. It seems like the 50% increase in materials was quite lazy as to account for the base change in invention you would increase material requirements by 37.5%. [1.50 / 1.091 = 1.3748]
The actual final adjustment that should be made is even more complex still as itGÇÖs a balance of the decryptors used in invention and a comparison of their material waste before and after the patch. Even then you canGÇÖt account for the changes in behaviour with usage of the decryptors so itGÇÖs pretty clear that the moon goo market will be up in the air for a while. Personally IGÇÖd expect to see moo material prices increase as a result of this change which isnGÇÖt optimal as moon mining is a completely passive income source.
As it's hard to take player behaviour into account as such a 37.5% increase in T2 materials rather than 50% seems more logical. EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players. |
Danny Centauri
Manu Fortius space weaponry and trade
95
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Posted - 2014.06.07 12:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Also just a quick second point why couldn't you multiple the ranks by 10 and divide the research times by 10? Then you could have kept everything as nice tidy integers without anyone having to ever wonder about rounding again :). EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players. |
Danny Centauri
Manu Fortius space weaponry and trade
95
|
Posted - 2014.06.08 21:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Haven't dug into the numbers too much like I plan to yet (model comparing overall gamewide usage before & after the patch including ability to revise based on expected change in decryptor usage, anyone? Depends on if I can setup the spreadsheet in a reasonable amount of time tomorrow) so I don't want to comment on the numbers too much, but... Danny Centauri wrote:as moon mining is a completely passive income source. When moons are such that we don't need a team of fifty people constantly refueling POS, emptying the silos, and clearing (often multiple times a day) siphons off of them, that they inject isk straight into the corp wallet instead of the value being realized by selling the materials to people who turn around and run even more POS, it'll be completely passive income. Until then, the most valuable of them is worth at best what one ishtar ratting two hours a day can make (and the guy maintaining the POS is undoubtedly more active than the ratter, too), and the "completely passive" argument is a dead horse flogged by the jealous or ignorant. Besides, consider this: Demand for moon goo is separated from the actual moongoo by intermediate reactions, then advanced reactions, then Tech II component construction, and then the actual Tech II build times itself. For that reason, the moon markets shift in response to changing demand very slowly, and Alchemy - which regulates prices - makes upward changes even slower. With a full invention overhaul on the horizon after Crius, things probably won't have room to move very far before that shakes things up again anyway.
Having seen one crazy Russian in my former alliance manage 120 POS I both agree and disagree whilst it takes commitment to manage a large moon mining operation it's still pretty passive. The fact that less than half a percent of your alliance are involved in your biggest income source seems a bit out of balance.
Anyway lets not get caught up in the moon mining mechanics discussion more important is the impact of the actual change. Personally I think this change should be geared towards T2 material consumption remaining stable to try and keep prices the same. EVE Manufacturing Guide - Simple guides to manufacturing in EVE for both beginners and more experienced players. |
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