Not even for items that don't have T2 equivalents, such as capital components?

Considering that max run on BPC copied from T2 BPO will be1, it is safe to say that copy time can be similar to manufacturing time. Invention can get multiple multi-run BPCs but little worse ME (few % in new system) & keep it capability of mass production, while BPO can create only one run copies and loose benefits of multiple runs in new system thus only way to benefit from T2 BPO is actually to manufacture from it directly which again benefits from amarr factory outpost 0.65x production time bonus, teams and multiple run ME reduction same like it could from gallente outpost. Even today when copy time is just little longer then manufacturing time IMHO I didn't see T2 BPCs being created in gallente outpost in any substantial number or if any on contracts. so copy time = 3x manufacturing time is

Copy time should be 0.8x manuf. time and see what happens then in worst case readjust it in next patch.
Invention usually done in POS with all bonuses gets one copy 1-run or multiple run copy with decryptor in 12 hours and when we factor invention chance you will get more runs per single line from invention then by coping T2 BPO in same time not to mention you can run 10 lines per person with invention.


Invention is high volume & lossy while originals are low volume and lossless.
Invention is lower start investment better profit but more clicking, T2 BPO is high investment, better margin per line, less total profit but less clicking.
Balance. Well benefit is little on the side of invention.

Greyscale, on further thought, the invented blueprint market for rigs is kinda goofy with exploration drops being 0/0 while invented ones - at best - are -1/-1.

Please leave exploration drops alone, and don't buff them.

Now that Kronos is deployed, can we get an ETA for Crius on sisi so we can test the incredibly large volume of knobs and wheels you've turned?

Given invention is getting a massive overhaul shortly after this patch there really isn't much point in trying to do precise tuning. Do it in the next pass.

Yes, I think we get it. You guys are raging about past track records instead of just posting feedback on each iteration. You can either post it here and maybe get a good patch or not and get a steaming pile of crap you rage about for years. There is nothing particularly controversial in this bundle. We can debate a few % here and there but they are relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Given invention is getting a massive overhaul shortly after this patch there really isn't much point in trying to do precise tuning. Do it in the next pass.

Since i'm really bad at spreadsheet applications, i just made a website instead that shows you how the material usage modifiers would change. http://bp.kiwi.frubar.net/me-changes/

(I also incorporated most of the changes discussed in this thread into http://bp.kiwi.frubar.net/calc/ if someone wants to quickly check a few items without spending time with spreadsheets. [/shameless-plug] )

I would have included that table directly in this post, but sadly the new forums do not support preformatted text.

There is nothing remotely that dramatic in these changes. They already delayed it a month due to the handful of edge cases and that is more than sufficient. Edge cases fixed, balance preserved.

This is so very true; presuming everyone always invents t2 battleships and larger with process decryptors makes you look like a fool. Check contracts sometime. Talk to smaller end inventors. I've seen a lot of JF, Blops, etc BPCs up for sale that used different decryptors, and have tried to talk people out of using inefficient ones. Sure, process may be the most efficient, but they aren't always used to invent BS and larger.

Effort is the only real barrier for invention. I used to invent, but now I just cannot bring myself to install jobs through the sheer tedium of it. I've said countless times in these threads that all these hypothetical production quantity numbers people seem intent on spouting around like a drunkard pissing are utterly insubstantial when you consider the effect a nicer UI is going to have.


If we really can invent in batches or even in one or two clicks that is going to make a bigger difference to net production quantities per real-player than flapping about with build times ever will.