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Cekle Skyscales
X-Prot
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
47
   |
Posted - 2014.05.21 18:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Given the removal of "slots" from manufacturing facilities and the scaling production cost, I think it would be appropriate to remove the arbitrary limit on concurrent manufacturing jobs from the Mass Production and Advanced Mass Production skills.
Instead, allow us to manufacture a virtually infinite amount of things concurrently, but scale the cost based on how many jobs you're running already as well as facilities in use at your current location. Retool the two Mass Production skills to reduce the cost for concurrent job installations.
I ran into this problem while trying to build a fleet of fully-fitted frigates for my corporation, as currently I can only install 10 jobs at once, but have 15 things to build. As it stands, I will have to wait a full day extra until my overall production is finished, rather than having just a single day's worth of manufacturing to complete. |
Cekle Skyscales
X-Prot
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
47
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 19:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
27 views and no replies! |
Arronicus
X-Prot
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
982
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 20:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
On one hand, I don't think that it's a good idea to remove the limit on how many jobs you can have running concurrently because I think that it would enable large scale producers to occupy a much larger portion of the pie, to produce far more than they do. However, with a scaling cost for having more jobs running, or perhaps some loss in efficiency I think that would be an interesting counterbalance, making it not always profitable to do so, and allowing others to produce the same things at a potentially lower price.
Overall, I suppose I'm against the idea, because while I think the good and bad points of this idea (potentially dramatic effects on the market, especially where there is a high profit margin on a low build cost with a long build time, where the profits would quickly disappear due to ease of supply) balance out, I don't think that it corrects any existing problem, or imbalance. Part of the dynamic is currently that if you want more slots, train more characters on the account. If you want more than that, your enterprises have to be yielding at LEAST the value of a plex, in additional revenue per additional account, and that helps maintain the profit margin on a lot of smaller items. |
Cekle Skyscales
X-Prot
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
47
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 20:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:On one hand, I don't think that it's a good idea to remove the limit on how many jobs you can have running concurrently because I think that it would enable large scale producers to occupy a much larger portion of the pie, to produce far more than they do. However, with a scaling cost for having more jobs running, or perhaps some loss in efficiency I think that would be an interesting counterbalance, making it not always profitable to do so, and allowing others to produce the same things at a potentially lower price.
Overall, I suppose I'm against the idea, because while I think the good and bad points of this idea (potentially dramatic effects on the market, especially where there is a high profit margin on a low build cost with a long build time, where the profits would quickly disappear due to ease of supply) balance out, I don't think that it corrects any existing problem, or imbalance. Part of the dynamic is currently that if you want more slots, train more characters on the account. If you want more than that, your enterprises have to be yielding at LEAST the value of a plex, in additional revenue per additional account, and that helps maintain the profit margin on a lot of smaller items.
Unfortunately, while this problem is easily handled by more characters in high security space, this becomes a drag on nullsec manufacturing due to the logistics of adding new characters to a corp and moving them into null to participate in manufacturing operations. You get 11 more manufacturing slots from this, sure, but at the expense of another 60+ days of training, diverting training time from your main (or costing a PLEX to train both simultaneously).
It seems like an isk cost for managing multiple manufacturing operations is a more direct way of handling the costs associated with it, rather than requiring the training up of an additional character. |
RoAnnon
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
314
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 20:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
How would this affect those folks in WHs that manufacture at no cost at all in a POS assembly array?
So, you're a bounty hunter.
No, that ain't it at all.
Then what are you?
I'm a bounty hunter. |
Cekle Skyscales
X-Prot
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
49
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 21:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
RoAnnon wrote:How would this affect those folks in WHs that manufacture at no cost at all in a POS assembly array?
This is a similar conundrum to the issue with player outposts having zero cost for manufacturing in nullsec. I figured this would not be a form of cost-to-install scaling, but a separate fee like a broker's fee when creating market orders. |
Nariya Kentaya
Phoenix funds
1273
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 21:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
RoAnnon wrote:How would this affect those folks in WHs that manufacture at no cost at all in a POS assembly array?
No cost at all
except the logistics of wormholes beign absolute **** for hauling any meaningful amount of materials in out out of any non-negligible mass.
i know of maybe a couple people/alliances that manufacture in WH, and its T3s, and then most fo them have switched to high/low since then, because wormholes suck for it. |
Cekle Skyscales
X-Prot
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
49
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 00:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Anyone else have any opinions about this? |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
654
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 00:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
What would happen to the skills? Repurposed? Refunded? Donated to poor noobs? |
Cekle Skyscales
X-Prot
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
49
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 01:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rowells wrote:What would happen to the skills? Repurposed? Refunded? Donated to poor noobs?
Middle paragraph, original post. |
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
Superior Eve Engineering
24
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 03:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cekle Skyscales wrote:I ran into this problem while trying to build a fleet of fully-fitted frigates for my corporation, as currently I can only install 10 jobs at once, but have 15 things to build. As it stands, I will have to wait a full day extra until my overall production is finished, rather than having just a single day's worth of manufacturing to complete.
while I understand your frustration on the limitations of how many build slots you may use I must also point out that from looking at your corps member base, you currently have a total of 255. Now if that is like many of the other corps in eve I'd go as far as to say that out of those 255 members probably only 1/3 of them are actually active with alts already in the same corp.
now as a renter you've probably been given access to setup offices in a certain station that will also allow you access to corp hangers and with those hangers you can adjust the current members access rights to those hangers, so that you may have help in building those 15 things that you currently have to.
In general I'd have to say that currently I disagree with the removal of the current limitation of allowing players to have at most 11 build slots and increasing them to unlimited. The main reason for this is that in the past I have been in corps where production was the main basis for what they did and it got to the point where not one but two stations build slots were easily filled, thus forcing other corps / alliances who were in the production business to relocate and by that I don't mean easy 1 week builds, I'm talking about long term 30 day production cycles.
These days thanks to ccp's greed of selling more gtc's, plexes, monthly rentals and with the introduction of the isboxing, eve has come to a point where the average joe has racked up enough isk to also do that or something similar off of their own backs without the need of other players other than purchasing materials to build from those prints. This in my eyes with what you are proposing would easily keep prices pretty high on slot renting and force more relocation to build than what is needed or more moving around to build in multiple spots. |
Cekle Skyscales
X-Prot
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
49
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 23:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
sci0gon wrote:In general I'd have to say that currently I disagree with the removal of the current limitation of allowing players to have at most 11 build slots and increasing them to unlimited. The main reason for this is that in the past I have been in corps where production was the main basis for what they did and it got to the point where not one but two stations build slots were easily filled, thus forcing other corps / alliances who were in the production business to relocate and by that I don't mean easy 1 week builds, I'm talking about long term 30 day production cycles.
These days thanks to ccp's greed of selling more gtc's, plexes, monthly rentals and with the introduction of the isboxing, eve has come to a point where the average joe has racked up enough isk to also do that or something similar off of their own backs without the need of other players other than purchasing materials to build from those prints. This in my eyes with what you are proposing would easily keep prices pretty high on slot renting and force more relocation to build than what is needed or more moving around to build in multiple spots.
Unfortunately, while our corporation does have access to a station (a station we built, actually!), I have not been given any additional access to station or corporation infrastructure to make this building process easier, this is a personal project. I do not have alts, I play as a single character on a single account. Most of my corpmates are the same (save for our friend with 18 ISBox'd mackinaws/dominxes, and another friend with 9).
Given that station manufacturing slots are going away with the Industry changes, and is instead being replaced with a scaling cost system, I thought it would be appropriate to have a similar system in place for concurrent jobs, seeing as there is no longer opportunity for players to completely block others from using a station's manufacturing facilities. This fee would not change between stations or systems as the other fee does, and instead will scale exponentially as a player installs more and more manufacturing jobs. |
Cekle Skyscales
X-Prot
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
49
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 20:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
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