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When a vet comes up against a non vet

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Rekindle	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:23:00 - [1] i don't know why i'm wasting my time with posting this thread....I guess its just to vent frustrations. I already see in my mind how the replies will go. The first 5 replies will be someone flaming me as a stupid noob, then another few explaining how i could have avoided the situation, then it will get derailed even further from there....few will see the actual point I'm trying to make, and even less will care. But this game has some fundamental problems with the risk vs. reward system. I have played a LOT of MMORPG games (too many) in the past and I'm here to tell you I don't work all day to come home and "give" my play time to some ganking lunatic who has nothing better to do then to turn my night into hell just because hes had an account active longer then me. Combat in most MMORPG games, particulairly, the PvP element of combat is typically rock, paper, scissors. The fundamental problem in Eve is the need for Warp Core stabalizers and its impact on your PvE setup and the 'weak's inability to flee or otherwise deal with gankers. I either get dressed for PvP or PvE - not both. Tonight i had my PvE setup on and some guy comes up in a vegabond and jams me until three year old character, plus 2 NPC battleships blow my 4th battleship in a week. The first one was completely my own fault The second one was due to lag just before a server crash The third was due to gate campers and the fourth was tonight.... by my math thats 120mil ISK wasted in insurance,plus a lot more wasted in modules each time. So my last week has been spent **ing money away in this game while i fall further and further behind. I'm all up for a little risk vs reward, I totally accept that living in 0.0 comes with risks and there are suposed to be benefits...but when a 3 year old player in a vega bond comes up against a megathron theres just no competition. This is where the 'experts' tell me to watch local, tell me I shouldn't be in 0.0 if I can't handle it ..and all the other things I anticipate reading. The bottom line is this game favors its veterns by feeding on its young. I like the whole space fairing thing, I like fighting Rats, I even like PvP. But gate camping, and a 3 year old vet in a T2 ship coming in out of no where to warp scramble me when I'm already fighting 2 npc battlships at half cap translates into a situation that makes it not** fun. I've built a moderate amount of isk and ships in my time in this game between my two accounts and its all gone because of the above. Coming home from a real job is suposed to be a relaxing activity but the net effect of these events has been utter frustration. /end vent ------------------------------------------- I invented the term "wife aggro".
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:27:00 - [2] When in doubt EW. Remind me about The Maze. I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message.
mergblue	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:28:00 - [3] When in doubt, safespot.
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:31:00 - [4] when in doubt smash your head against the screen and ask yourself why you pay for the game to make isk only to have it all blown up on you in a downward spiral motion that will invariably leave you broke. ------------------------------------------- I invented the term "wife aggro".
voodoo	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:32:00 - [5] Edited by: voodoo on 02/06/2006 01:32:10 hi im sorry you're having a bad day. Ive had many of them. It sux but it passes. each time something happens you learn from it. Thats the positive. This game is great because you cant just respawn and have all your crap back. anyways take a drink, **** have a smoke or what ever and try it again. Try and do what ever it is you want to do in a more secure area, meaning maybe get somekinda pass or something. have fun or DIE trying. cu GO AWAY
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:33:00 - [6] how @#$%@#$ ironic a BOB tells me this as it was a @#$@#$@#!@#$!@#$!@#$!@#$@# BOB that decided to @#$#@$@# on my day. ------------------------------------------- I invented the term "wife aggro".
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:33:00 - [7] the history of MMORPGs with pvp has the ****ty pvpers attacking people when they are fighting an NPC.
Righteous Fury	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:34:00 - [8] whine whine whine, cry cry cry give the vets vs newbs whine a rest already, jesus. The only thing a 3 year old player has over players a few months old is numerous specializations instead of just one. Any pilot can have the maximum skills to fly a HAC as good as a 3 year old pilot in under six months. Eve is not about the old preying on the new, its about the smart preying on the utterly incompetent. If you've lost four battleships, you're the only one at fault.
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:35:00 - [9] it didnt take all that long for the "you are a whiner " posts to start did it? ------------------------------------------- I invented the term "wife aggro".
Eternal Fury	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:37:00 - [10] I'll roll all your expected answers into one. Why were you in a PvE setup in lowsec, as that's the only place you can be ganked. If you were in low sec, why didn't you fit stabs(I know the answer, but the question is expected.) if you don't want to PvP why were you in a low sec system. you got beat by the Rock Paper Sissors setup. his rock to your Sissors(setup I mean, you're PvE setup and his EW setup.) Don't fly it if you can't afford it(another expected reply, but it sounds like you can afford it, it's just frustrateing). ----- on to a real responce. Basically there isn't a "problem with things per se, it's just how you were looking at them. If you go to low sec, you have to do one of two things. Watch local like a hawk and safe spot the second someone else comes into the system. Or watch local like a hawk and balance the number of them against the NPC's you are fighting and the chance you figure you'll beat them. To me, if you are in a .4 or lower system, you are saying you are ready, willing and able to PvP and that's the only reason you're out there. Now that said, I've spent about 3 hrs a night for the last week and a half in 0.0 Ratting with a friend or two. we DID watch local and Safe spot when needed, but I still lost a little Kestral to a BoB HAC(I forget their name, but they locked me DAMNED fast ). I feel for you. I lost my first Raven the night I got it from a gate camp comeing back from a mission in a 0.4 system. I was just NPC mission running, but still had to PvP. That's part of lowsec. The Brotherhood of Light. Small Corp. Big Fun.
Lorth	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Rekindle i don't know why i'm wasting my time with posting this thread....I guess its just to vent frustrations. I already see in my mind how the replies will go. The first 5 replies will be someone flaming me as a stupid noob, then another few explaining how i could have avoided the situation, then it will get derailed even further from there....few will see the actual point I'm trying to make, and even less will care. But those people are right though. Just because you don't want to listen to them doesn't make it any less so either. I can see the point your trying to get at though. That skill points actually mean something in this game. And I'm afraid your wrong there as well. Truth be told, you died, and frankly it was your own fault. As much as you don't want to here this, you should have been looking at local, and you should have warped. Skill points in actuallity mattered non-at-all in the final out come of what happened to you. You simply didn't use the no thought required tools availible to you. And while you said you didn't want to here it, its the truth, and I'm going to say it anyways. Which is frankly your problem. Stop blaming your loss on others and shutting your self out from the advice you know will save you. Rather actually listen to it, and use that advice, and you wouldn't have been ganked. Sorry, blameing your own mistakes on others isn't really going to solve anything. Nor is refusing to here to advice given to you, advice that you already know about anyways, helping the situations. The rest is nothing about drivel, based on the ill-gotten that skil points matter much if at all. And that the skill point differance had anything what so ever in your loss. You made a mistake, live with it.
Nyabinghi	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:45:00 - [12] I feel your pain. I know many feel as though they are mere ducks for the shooting gallery. There is not a whole lot you can do till you become uber skilled yourself except perhaps team up with other players like yourself and watch each other's back. I'd rather have a few good gang members by my side than a Navy Megathron in 0.0. I make cool banners for ISK.
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:47:00 - [13] Edited by: Rekindle on 02/06/2006 01:48:08 queue the " can i have your stuff" posts now I'm taking a break from this game-- I'll agree to disagree and leave it at the point that its just not fun for me. I might as well mine for a week and hand over my stuff and isk to the next Tier 2 HAC I see with a bad standing -- at least it will save him some ammo. Somehow I'm an idiot for the fact the game client crashed and I lost my ship that way. Newsflash for the vets before I go do something useful wiht my time other then playing this game 1. SKILLS DO MATTER 2. People playing with less skills are fodder for older players ------------------------------------------- I invented the term "wife aggro".
Ab Initio	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:49:00 - [14] What I find most amazing about your post, is that you seem to understand all the ways to avoid these issues, and... Ignore them? If this is the case, 0.0 really isn't for you. Please don't take this as smack, it isn't meant to be, but you really need to reconsider living in 0.0 if you can't: 1. Follow simple rules to avoid getting ganked (I started in 0.0 on 1mill sp, I have yet to loose a ship while NPCing, by following those simple steps I was told). 2. Handling loss.. You live in 0.0, you WILL loose ships. Even if you manage point 1, you will still have to defend yourself at some point, and ships will pop. If your NPC setup is completely defenceless against attackers, perhaps you need to look at modifying it (use Energised Nanos instead of active hardners for example), my NPC setups are specifically chosen because they can hold up in a real fight as well. Theres lots of options available to you, going to the forums to complain that the game needs to be changed to suit you, instead of changing to suit the game, should probably be last on your list.
Lorth	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:51:00 - [15] Edited by: Lorth on 02/06/2006 01:52:10 Originally by: Rekindle 1. SKILLS DO MATTER 2. People playing with less skills are fodder for older players 1. NO THEY DON'T. 2. NO THEY ARE NOT The only limits as to what you can do in eve are self induced. Sorry to see you've gone down the road of some many ill-informed and unwilling to put forth any effort what so ever people before you. EDIT: Before someone takes this out of context. Skill points matter very very little past a certain point, and given that the OP is already flying a BS, I would venture to guess he's well past that point.
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:51:00 - [16] I will regret making this post in the morning --- im just really ****ed off right now. ------------------------------------------- I invented the term "wife aggro".
Ab Initio	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:52:00 - [17] Originally by: Rekindle 1. SKILLS DO MATTER Yes, they do. If you're talking a 1 on 1 fight, using similar mods, in similar ships. But they matter alot less the further you move from that scenario. Originally by: Rekindle 2. People playing with less skills are fodder for older players No, they aren't. One of my first PVP kills with this character was an Ishtar, in my Thorax (pre drone changes). Just because you have less SP, doesn't mean you automatically fall lower in the food chain than everyone else.
Hinkledolph	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:54:00 - [18] Whats the point of this post? You flat out say you don't want to hear any of the things that could have saved you. All you do is blame it on people with more skill points. My advice, leave EVE. Find an mmo that holds your hand, you'll feel happy there.
Micia	Posted - 2006.06.02 01:59:00 - [19] There is truth is my sig. Yah, sounds like you had a rough week. If you're finding it frustrating, take a break from it. (or make isk in hi-sec) _______ Originally by: bonombonom there's nothing wrong with being new, hell, 3 day old players kick my ass all the time...
Rekindle	Posted - 2006.06.02 02:01:00 - [20] Originally by: Micia There is truth is my sig. Yah, sounds like you had a rough week. If you're finding it frustrating, take a break from it. (or make isk in hi-sec) thats about it Micia. Its been about an hour or so and my blood pressure is slowly returning to normal. ------------------------------------------- I invented the term "wife aggro".
Celedris	Posted - 2006.06.02 02:14:00 - [21] Coming from a relatively new player (less than 6 months), skill points have nothing to do with your troubles. When I started playing Eve I was worried that I'd never be able to catch up to other players, but after a short time I realized that I don't have to catch up with them to compete at an even level. 1) In any given fight, the average 3-year vet will probably be using less than 30% of his skill points. 2) In any given fight, a young (~5 mil SP) specialized pilot will be using about 90% of his skill points. 3) It takes alot more skill points to fly a battleship well than it does for smaller ships. Sounds like you were getting ganked in a battleship. 4) Rank 4 gives 80% of the benefit of a skill at Rank 5, and it only takes about 20% of the time to get to rank 4 as it does to get to rank 5. 5) In the situations where you died, it would not matter if you had 3 million SPs or 30 million. You died because you didn't check your map for gate camps, because you fly around solo in 0.0 in a battleship, because you didn't use instas, and because generally you wern't paying attention. EVE is alot less forgiving of laziness and stupidity than most games, but you can definitely play with the old guys if you play smart.
Olgzr	Posted - 2006.06.02 02:20:00 - [22] Rekindle: Guess I am a "vet". I have been where you are several times. I get mad and vent but then realize it was mostly my fault. Corp mates mostly ignore me now. Hope you stay with Eve. You sound like someone that would make this game better.
Telemicus Thrace	Posted - 2006.06.02 02:21:00 - [23] Originally by: Rekindle ...but when a 3 year old player in a vega bond comes up against a megathron theres just no competition... I got jumped by a more experienced pilot in a Vaga not long ago. I turned the tables and drove him off in my little ol'Phoon. I'm not a veteran, not by a long shot. It was a good fight. If your ship can kill a player it should be able to handle rats. Always dress for PvP in low/no-sec. Over specialisation is death. Yeah, I know you ain't interested in advice but that may be why you keep dying. Game is fine. >> RECRUITING <<
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.06.02 02:21:00 - [24] Ewar is definatly something id carry into low sec, tis the great equalizer. best setup ship in the game cant kill an Ibis if it cant obtain lock.
Amerame	Posted - 2006.06.02 02:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Rekindle (...) is suposed to be a relaxing activity (...) Here's one of my favourite quote : Originally by: Iain M. Banks (The player of games) 'This is where you relax ?' (...) 'Absolutely not. Common misconception that; that fun is relaxing. If it is, you're not doing it right. That said, being a veteran or rookie in lowsec is not a matter of SP but of time spent in lowsec. A player with a 1M SP char can be a veteran of lowsec and never get ganked, a player with a 35M SP char can be clueless about lowsec and getting ganked left and right in 0.0. You know what ? It's happening a lot more than you would expect.
Jasperre Le'Beu	Posted - 2006.06.02 02:26:00 - [26] Ummm... You answered your own argument throughout that whole speech Why don't you do what your answers tell you to do?
crom ralphfao	Posted - 2006.06.02 02:30:00 - [27] yeah, i hear ya rekindle. it can be frustrating balancing the want to make isk and the risk involved in low sec space. no matter what anyone pretends to say, when they are actually down in the dumps.......no money and little to nothing to melt or sell for more, it can be depressing. my goal is to always have a "savings account" of ships or mins that i can sell if i get to low in the wallet. but that is little comfort now. i like eve the way it is, it gives the game and my time in it a sense of realism. but just like life, people can lose everything from a wrong descision, or a moments inattention. skills do matter, otherwise people wouldnt train them up, it just matters where those sp are for pvp. my main has 8 mil sp, and my newest character has 3 mil....within a month or two, my noob would be able to beat the crap outa my main. but them my main can fly a few other ships and has non pvp skills as well.......so its complicated. yeah, pvp can suck when you are on the victim end of things,, good luck to you and i hope you have some karma coming.
mrg29	Posted - 2006.06.02 03:06:00 - [28] Edited by: mrg29 on 02/06/2006 03:07:11 to the OP - u haven't said how old your character is or how many sps u have but i'm assuming you are relatively new given the argument you are trying to make. the biggest issue with your situation is your choice of ship tbh. a BS in low sec or 0.0, piloted by a relatively new player is ones of easiest targets for someone who knows what they are doing. NOTE i said someone who knows what they are doing not someone with high skill points. using a BS with relatively low sps is difficult, especially in a PvP situation. your damage output will be low, u will miss more, the ship is slow and takes time to warp and altho u have more raw hps your ability to sustain a tank probably isn't great. given your previous posts you wont like this advice but taking a BS into low sec or 0.0 solo with low-ish sps is just asking for trouble. -
Eternal Fury	Posted - 2006.06.02 03:34:00 - [29] Skill is more important then skill points. It's that simple. you can have 50 million skill points, and if you are in 0.0 in a PvE setup and someone comes in with a 3 Mill SP char with a ship setup for PvP, you WILL DIE. Skill > Skill points. The Brotherhood of Light. Small Corp. Big Fun.
Tripoli	Posted - 2006.06.02 04:00:00 - [30] Originally by: Lorth Originally by: Rekindle 1. SKILLS DO MATTER 2. People playing with less skills are fodder for older players 1. NO THEY DON'T. 2. NO THEY ARE NOT Have to lean towards Lorth on this one. While obviously they matter a little, newbies can actually easily be the bane of a vet's existance with a proper setup and some guile. --- 282 of 312 skills trained.

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