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Braaage
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:01:00 -
[1]
Sorry if this has already been suggested.....
Empire ganking in 1.0 systems is bad for the game, it's very bad for new players, it's very very bad for those caught with there life savings.
The result of empire ganking is more often than not new players leave. More often than not it results in that person giving bad press to EVE to friends, on forums and other ways.
Lets face it, it has to stop, this is one way of doing it.
CCP has recently beefed up Concord giving them quicker response times and more damage, the problem with that is it takes a few seconds for a BS to pop a lowly hauler or a fast ship.
The answer is right there in front of them ..... sentry guns.
In 1.0 sectors make sentry guns EXTREMELY powerful - x100 damage modifiers basically popping everything cept capitals ships in 1 shot also give them insta lock on every ship type.
Then as the security status drops reduce the amount of damage sentry guns do.
Thoughts?
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:02:00 -
[2]
I think I'd like to batter you over the head with a soggy kipper for dragging up an issue that has been flogged to death in the recent past.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:02:00 -
[3]
No?
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Hando Gin
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:04:00 -
[4]
doesnt most of the ganking your talking about take place in asteroid belts and not at gates and stations?
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Doh Tajori
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:04:00 -
[5]
EVE is growing cause of it, see!!!  no need for solution.
I am nothin', but im also everythin'... |
Crumplecorn
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:08:00 -
[6]
All ships who fire weapons at anyone in empire should spontaneously explode instantly.
Along with anyone I set negative standing to...... 
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Sorry but that link contains nawty language. -wystler
"Discussing moderation is not allowed" - Ivan K
"Ranting is prohibited" - Teblin
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Braaage
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:09:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Hando Gin
doesnt most of the ganking your talking about take place in asteroid belts and not at gates and stations?
Nope most takes place outside stations where the haulers are continously bumped to stop them from warping to either ransom the driver or force them to pay. Course the driver can simply redock but then he's stuck there until he can find a way out.
This creates huge pile ups outside stations (just go to Jita and look for yourself).
Most ganking takes place at gates.
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Valkazm
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:09:00 -
[8]
lol what battleship suiced in 1.0 to get a hauler ? 
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Braaage
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Valkazm
lol what battleship suiced in 1.0 to get a hauler ?
It happens all the time that's why 0.0 is atm much MUCH more safer than empire.
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Braaage
This creates huge pile ups outside stations (just go to Jita and look for yourself).
This isnt haulers being bumped. It's 700 traders, mission runners and posers undocking at once. Then half of them go afk to pick their noses.
Empire ganking isnt a problem. It's a tiny tiny but vocal minority that raise a fuss.
Theres a bit in the player guide that says nowhere is safe and like in RL the police can arrive too late to save you.
If you have valuables then transport them in a t2 hauler or tanked ship. Not a paper ship with huge cargo capacity.
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Quurst
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Braaage
...it's very very bad for those caught with there life savings.
Thoughts?
How about you don't get caught with your life savings in an easy to gank ship?
Look at the eyes, the eyes... |
Hando Gin
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:16:00 -
[12]
i have to agree that empire is no safer than 0.0 having had my main spend months in ascn .... ganking is valid but getting out of hand imo ... to many people who claim to be macro hunters are just popping miners for the hell of it and claiming that they are macro miners after ... quote " you never talked in local so i took you as a macro miner " (this was heard in my local and did not happen to me for the record) solution ... fly exhumers and transport ships with hardeners as if you were mining in 0.0 .... at least you stand a chance of "holding out" until the reinforcements from concord can arrive
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Quurst
Originally by: Braaage
...it's very very bad for those caught with there life savings.
Thoughts?
How about you don't get caught with your life savings in an easy to gank ship?
QFT, or at least Plastic Wrap the damn stuff first, only takes a day for it to run through Escrow.
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Caerleus
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:20:00 -
[14]
If people wanna be carrying around stuff in what amounts to cardboard ships, then let them.
As has been stated in so many threads, the solution to the problem of Empire ganking is as easy as using your head.
Got expensive stuff to haul, use a transport ship.
Got high value, low volume products? Transport ship, Cov Ops, Assault Frig, HaC, Tanked BS..
Just don't carry more than the cost of BS insurance in a t1 hauler...your asking for trouble and basically need your head examining..
People should train the skills to be able do stuff correctly, rather than try and bodge it.
Anyway..
Im off to run a lvl4 mission in an Osprey then post that it needs to get buffed because it died...
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Braaage
Sorry if this has already been suggested.....
Empire ganking in 1.0 systems is bad for the game, it's very bad for new players, it's very very bad for those caught with there life savings.
The result of empire ganking is more often than not new players leave. More often than not it results in that person giving bad press to EVE to friends, on forums and other ways.
Lets face it, it has to stop, this is one way of doing it.
CCP has recently beefed up Concord giving them quicker response times and more damage, the problem with that is it takes a few seconds for a BS to pop a lowly hauler or a fast ship.
The answer is right there in front of them ..... sentry guns.
In 1.0 sectors make sentry guns EXTREMELY powerful - x100 damage modifiers basically popping everything cept capitals ships in 1 shot also give them insta lock on every ship type.
Then as the security status drops reduce the amount of damage sentry guns do.
Thoughts?
My first tought is that the suicide gankers don't usually suicide on newbie frigs and cruisers, so your argument about new players leaving is kinda weak.
My second tought is that any old player transporting really valuable goods should do it in a tanked BS, and not afk travel with a T1 hauler.
I think you're way overreacting on this "issue" and fail to notice several solutions to suicide ganking that already exist.
Low-sec sentries need a buff in damage and range, or some scrambling ability (nothing as easily replaceable than a BS should be able to tank them for a few minutes straight), but that's another debate entirely...
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Don't make War, War is messy. Make love instead, so your kids will do the War part for you. |
gfldex
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:28:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Braaage
The result of empire ganking is more often than not new players leave.
Can you back your claim with numbers please? How many new players got ganked at all. Who many of them left and how many did not?
Btw. I know how to pop any frig and shuttle right under the eyes of sentries. Not only your claim, even your solution is pointless.
--
$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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Hando Gin
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:30:00 -
[17]
sniping? range issue on sentrys if right i guess?
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:33:00 -
[18]
hey if we loose some players who end up as scared WOW types early on in their careers then so be it this is a specific type of game and we want a specific type of player in game (still multifaceted and they can always stay in the noob corps anyway)
Yeah plastic wrap is best.
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Braaage
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:33:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Braaage on 02/06/2006 11:33:48
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Braaage
The result of empire ganking is more often than not new players leave.
Can you back your claim with numbers please? How many new players got ganked at all. Who many of them left and how many did not?
Btw. I know how to pop any frig and shuttle right under the eyes of sentries. Not only your claim, even your solution is pointless.
Impossible to back with numbers although CCP could implement a "why are you leaving" poll but that would still require the leaver to fill it in.
As for is it happening .... yes
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Aakron
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Posted - 2006.06.02 11:41:00 -
[20]
IF i could just make a guess...it would be that suiciding a battleship in empire would only happen if the gains are potentially greater? I seriously doubt there are many "noobs" with haulers full of massive amounts worth of isk or blueprints, the people that get killed in highsec ganks are "careless" not "noobs"
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Copine Callmeknau
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:38:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Copine Callmeknau on 02/06/2006 12:38:24
Yeah, all those new players that these suicide gankers are scaring away and stuff!
Because you know that a suicide ganker is just dying to throw his battleship away on some newbs Ibis. omg fat lewtz! 
-------
With five million sheep in this army
I seem to be the only one fit to command
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:40:00 -
[22]
You can't solve a problem that doesn't exist.
1.0 ganking isn't a "problem." Its part of the game. Its evolution in action.
--Proud member of the [23]--
Want a turn-based online game sophisticated enough for an EVE player? Try Ferion. |
Sandra Tseng
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:47:00 -
[23]
an easier solution that would require no work from the devs would be if EVERYONE just left empire space and went to 0.0
then there would be no empire ganking at all ;p
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Bermag
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:50:00 -
[24]
The only thing that need to be fixed IMO is to not pay out insurance if you get killed by concorde. It make no sense that if you suicide with a ship that you get full insurance.
That raise the cost/risk for suicide gankers. if your insurance is about to run out you could just as well make a suicide attack and there is no cost at all (except for the equipment you might loose but that would be cheap T1 anyway).
Of course it would suck when you attack someone by mistake (when in empire war).
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Novarei
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Posted - 2006.06.02 12:56:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
You can't solve a problem that doesn't exist.
1.0 ganking isn't a "problem." Its part of the game. Its evolution in action.
natural selection ftw
+-----------------------------------------------+
Ressurection is upon us. |
Flyyn
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:19:00 -
[26]
Anyone remember that guy that was attacking 1.0 space? How many BS did he lose? For what? to make a statement was all. No isk gains involved there...He continued to do it till CCP told him to stop.
And yes empire gankers will go after newbie frigs and cruisers in a heart beat. Cheap transport for expensive cargo....
This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it. |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:36:00 -
[27]
To have a solution, you need a problem... There's no problem, so why do we need a solution?
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Serkis
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Posted - 2006.06.02 13:53:00 -
[28]
It¦s not a problem so no solution required.
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.06.02 14:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Braaage
In 1.0 sectors make sentry guns EXTREMELY powerful - x100 damage modifiers basically popping everything cept capitals ships in 1 shot also give them insta lock on every ship type.
Then as the security status drops reduce the amount of damage sentry guns do.
Thoughts?
Yes.....You appear to want Empire to look like this.
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.06.02 14:15:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 02/06/2006 14:15:46
*Double Postage*
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Darko1107
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Posted - 2006.06.02 16:01:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Darko1107 on 02/06/2006 16:01:41
Originally by: Valkazm
lol what battleship suiced in 1.0 to get a hauler ?
Ofcourse, ship/cargo scanning in 1.0 is not an illegal offence. So you just scan whats in the cargo, if its good, you suicide your whatever and claim the cargo with an alt.
Peice of ****. I think its fairgame.
You know there is 1 way better solution to this..... Dont be an idiot. Might help. Its not mostly new players that this happens to, its the veterans that should know better, afking around jita with officer modules/bpo's in the hangar of thier flimsy tristan/hauler.
Signtaure removed. - Petwraith |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.06.02 16:28:00 -
[32]
First on page 2!
Such a shame I think this thread is useless. 
---
The Eve Wiki Project |
Amnika MonSulu
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Posted - 2006.06.02 16:36:00 -
[33]
If a soultion is needed, it wouldn't need to be something so extreme as overpowering turrents. Just make scanning a ship the same as an attack. Scanning would result in Concord showing up and destoying them before they could move in for the kill on haulers they scan. Then pirates can still suicide gank as they currently do and yet they are gambling on whether the hauler will have good or no loot at all. Still leaves 9.0 space risky, but acknowledges the fact that scanning another vessel is a hostile act that it really is.
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PriceCheckMax
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Posted - 2006.06.02 16:41:00 -
[34]
Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 02/06/2006 16:41:26
New players don't have assets to be worthy of losing a BS for.
Old players have the means to avoid it.
There is no "problem" or a "issue"
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Hoshi Khanid
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:03:00 -
[35]
Well I was afraid this post was going to be a long one. But read the thread noted below if you haven't already
Disposable Battleship Fun?
Some guy just want's to have a bit of fun so he can claim the insuerance, even if it will totaly screw somebody elses game
All you have to do is look at the Crime and Punishment forum here and I'll guarentee you will see at least one thread, anyday, with somebody either bragging about or organizing a 1.0 'gank'
The fact is Eve is degenerating into a fest of high sec mugging and ganking, what with suicide camps, new corp war deccing and can thieves who have managed to turn about game machanics aimed at protecting people to their advantage.
The genaral premiss of Eve has always been, High sec safe, low sec dangerous, and 0.0 anything goes. But some of the PvP/Pirate community, and mark I do say 'some' have decided that they have some 'right' to dictate how people play their game. It's also the laziest and most lame of gameplay as they know full well that they are hitting targets that will have no chance or retaliation, be there game mechanics or not to allow it.
There are a lot of people who enjoy the none PvP side of the game and should be allowed to if that's what they enjoy. Just so long as they stay within the rules and stay in high sec. If a player can make billions from high sec trading, mining or whatever then good on him, or her.
One of the things I'm seeing of interest here is real life being reflected, all the victim blaming, blaming society "It happened to me so it can happen to others". Hell, even comments like "Those lazy fatcat high sec players need teaching a lesson." Hmmm. Now where did I hear something like that before. Something to with Germany in the 30's?
The fact is, all the posts here against what the OP tried to suggest are nothing more then very sad people justifying why they get their 'jollies' out of spoiling other peoples games at minimum risk to themselves.
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Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:26:00 -
[36]
load a small can up with 50k junk BMs and then throw it in your hauler, remember the scanners see through cans so you have a chance of hiding your cargo in a mass of BMs. if they gank you anyway well then they get a suprise when the pop the can open for their pirate booty.
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lofty29
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Posted - 2006.06.02 18:31:00 -
[37]
Lets see...no? Would you transport ú1 billion in gold bars using a ford transit? No, you'd use an armored truck with escorts. Likewise here. Transport your stuff en masse in a heavily tanked elite industrial, or, for a single BPO, using an ubertanked HAC / Command ship. The tank will only have to last a few seconds nehoo. And travel with an ECM ship by your side. Suicide gankers will rarely attack in packs.
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I wanna be dev-jacked |
Static Universe
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Hoshi Khanid
Hell, even comments like "Those lazy fatcat high sec players need teaching a lesson." Hmmm. Now where did I hear something like that before? Somewhere in Germany in the 30's?
Yes, it's exactly like that.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Hoshi Khanid
Hell, even comments like "Those lazy fatcat high sec players need teaching a lesson." Hmmm. Now where did I hear something like that before? Somewhere in Germany in the 30's?
Godwin'd!
--Proud member of the [23]--
Want a turn-based online game sophisticated enough for an EVE player? Try Ferion. |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:52:00 -
[40]
Too bad. Too many sadistic players than masochistic players in EvE. If only people can enjoy paying USD15 for the fun of accepting losses all in the name of fun. EvE would be a happier place. At least if you dont like losing, you could try to do killing. 
----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT!
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
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Tadis
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Posted - 2006.06.02 19:53:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Tadis on 02/06/2006 19:54:20
I believe this post may be in reaction to the following type of killmails from Boldyn of Outbreak:
http://toxin.eve-killboard.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2355
http://toxin.eve-killboard.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2345
http://toxin.eve-killboard.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=2341
http://toxin.eve-killboard.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=735
http://toxin.eve-killboard.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=616
http://toxin.eve-killboard.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=887
Imo, clever work. Its using game rules to your advantage. But its not breaking any.
On another note, its a thrill. "Do ya feel lucky punk? D'ya think that 100k Zydrine will blow up or not?! So... doya!?"
___________________________________
PvP addict.
Send me a mail In-game for access to Alumni
NRG Recruiting |
hydraSlav
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Posted - 2006.06.02 20:28:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Braaage
it's very bad for new players, it's very very bad for those caught with there life savings
No... new players don't have anything that is worth an empire suicide gank. Anyone older should know better that you are not completely safe anywhere in EvE, as the tutorial and player guide point out.
Anyone stupid enough to transport their life savings in a single ship needs to google the phrase "never put all eggs in the same basket". Anyone transporting billions of BPOs alone in a shuttle deserves to die for not getting a more armorred ship and escort
And no, EVE, is not a solo-game, nor should it cater for solo players, its an MMO... massive multiplayer online.
If you play alone, you need to find something like Freelancer and play that alone in singleplayer.
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Above comments are my personal views, and do not represent my corporation or alliance, unless otherwise indicated |
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