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Gwen Sotari
Free Conglomerate
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 16:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Having read about eve for a long time I decided to finally taking the leap and joined earlier this month. Starting out I looked to join a corp and while talking to multiple entities it was very obvious most hated the CFC/Goons and this wasn't just large N3 corps but also smaller corps who have nothing to do with Goons.
So my question is why has such a bad stigma developed against the CFC and in particular Goon Swarm alliance?
The following couple of reasons that I was smothered with when I ask why are they so bad but then when I actually bothered to look into them I just find that coalitions such as N3 are worse.
For example I was often told Goons own most of eve and are ruining nullsec and removing content. I was even told to go look at the sov map and look at all the nasty blue CFC influence towering over the poor N3/PL influence areas and to start with yeah I though wow Goons do own everything But when if you bother to actually look into it this just isn't true.
Using dingos toolbox and roughly counting systems on Dotlan maps (might of missed some of the smaller entities within the coalitions) the CFC own 813 systems of which 679 (83%) are actual alliances and not a renting alliance. Where as with N3/PL out of the 1421 systems only 369 (25%) are non renting systems owned by alliances. So the CFC owns roughly half as many systems but has twice as many members in its coalition. This makes N3 the space hungry isk obsessed tyrant removing content with all the dull renting space.
Another complaint/reason I was told while searching for a corp was that in the CFC you're just a cog in the machine and that the Goons prevent independence. Where as N3 is a free land where you can prosper. Which again I think is untrue.
Take the most recent war. I watched several smaller entities within N3 have their space took off them and the reason being poor performance. How is taking their space away going to increase performance. How about offering better space for better performance. Especially since they own vast swathes of renting space. It just seems spiteful taking away the small amount of space these smaller entities own. Where as in the CFC from what I can tell you're incentivised to perform well as it dictates what space you gain from conflicts, not what space you'll lose.
As I stated I'm new so this could be completely wrong and if so go ahead and troll, rage and belittle me but unless you provide evidence as to why I'm wrong I'll ignore you :) |

Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
334
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 16:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
first.
anyway I think CAOD is what you are looking for and it's  CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, please give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals. |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2153
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 16:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Goons are... the goons..
They are terrible at the game.. yet good at it.. They are awful for the community yet good for it..
And of course they are lead by a cartoon supervillain..
Best not to think to much about it... It doesn't really make sense. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Senex Legio
201
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 19:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Goons and N3 (and other blocs) are, essentially, the same beast in different clothes. There's a place for such beasts within the game, and they certainly serve their function. None are really "better" than the others - that's all just spin.
It is difficult, if not outright impossible, to exist in (sov) nullsec without being part of a bloc or a renter of same. If you don't mind the opinion many in the game hold of renters, then it isn't that horrible a gig (well, okay, it is horrible).
NPC nullsec isn't as lucrative as sov, but it is possible for non-bloc/non-alliance entities to survive and thrive if they are savvy enough. "I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!" |

Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
376
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 19:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm relatively new too but my take is:
1) The CFC is arguably the most powerful entity in the game. Power always attracts 'hatred', though it's often a masked form of envy.
2) When push comes to shove, Goon leadership plays to win. They don't care about being nice or giving good fights. For example, they will often employ metagame tactics specifically aimed to plss-off and demoralize the 'enemy'. The Mittani described some of them himself in his 'Sins of a Solar Spymaster' posts on TenTonHammer (a good read, imho).
3) The core Goon player base comes from Something Awful forums, a community that is independent of EVE. So they are considered 'outsiders' by EVE players.
My 0.02 |

Liam Inkuras
Mafia Redux
1107
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 19:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
If you can't be them, hate them  I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |

Gwen Sotari
Free Conglomerate
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 20:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:Goons and N3 (and other blocs) are, essentially, the same beast in different clothes. There's a place for such beasts within the game, and they certainly serve their function. None are really "better" than the others - that's all just spin.
Thats my point N3/PL is as bad or worse than Goons but they don't half as much grief or hate and I just find that baffling. |

March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1499
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 20:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
personally i disrespect them for: 1) goon requirement scam which was 'officially allowed' - i almost got into it  2) goon shiotoasting in local - you should see it  3) goon propaganda (already mentioned) - in Delve 2012 they won "SoCO" when there was no coalitions at all... 4) goon shiptoasting in forums (example 'pubbies') - just look around
It's nothing really special and unique but there are reasons and they are exist The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Senex Legio
202
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 20:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gwen Sotari wrote:Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:Goons and N3 (and other blocs) are, essentially, the same beast in different clothes. There's a place for such beasts within the game, and they certainly serve their function. None are really "better" than the others - that's all just spin. That's my point N3/PL is as bad or worse than Goons but they don't get half as much grief or hate and I just find that baffling.
Because they are the "popular" "bad guy" that most folks feel comfortable reviling, without stopping to think about what they bring to the game. "I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!" |

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Senex Legio
202
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 22:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:personally i disrespect them for: 1) goon requirement scam which was 'officially allowed' - i almost got into it  2) goon shiotoasting in local - you should see it  3) goon propaganda (already mentioned) - in Delve 2012 they won "SoCO" when there was no coalitions at all... 4) goon shiptoasting in forums (example 'pubbies') - just look around It's nothing really special and unique but there are reasons and they are exist
Maybe you haven't visited a lot of the other W&T threads; there's plenty of "shiptoasting" (as you call it) in those the Goons don't frequent.
Scams, in general, are allowed in the game, but only the Goons are the bad guys for doing it?*
* = If you fell for it, then you didn't do your homework. There's plenty to be found via a quick search online. "I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!" |

wilgotna
Rubtech Equity Research Group
23
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 02:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
part of the reason is that they expose the game for what it truly is.
the entity that can get the most people on their side will inevitably win the majority of battles
skill is meaningless
there is only strength in numbers |

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2159
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 08:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:Gwen Sotari wrote:Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:Goons and N3 (and other blocs) are, essentially, the same beast in different clothes. There's a place for such beasts within the game, and they certainly serve their function. None are really "better" than the others - that's all just spin. That's my point N3/PL is as bad or worse than Goons but they don't get half as much grief or hate and I just find that baffling. Because they are the "popular" "bad guy" that most folks feel comfortable reviling, without stopping to think about what they bring to the game.
Uhm... The goons work pretty hard to portray themselves that way.. Its part of their thing. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |

Gwen Sotari
Free Conglomerate
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 09:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
wilgotna wrote:part of the reason is that they expose the game for what it truly is.
the entity that can get the most people on their side will inevitably win the majority of battles
skill is meaningless
there is only strength in numbers
I assume you mean they can field the biggest blob but so can N3. They blobbed the crap out of their slowcat fleet beating of any CFC attack with ease before the BR incident. Yes blobbing does seem like an incredibly crap tactic but it isn't specialised to the CFC. Pretty much everyone does it for sov battles. |

Auduin Samson
Do not disturb Sanctuary Pact
198
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 09:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Goons are... the goons..
They are terrible at the game.. yet good at it.. They are awful for the community yet good for it..
And of course they are lead by a cartoon supervillain..
Best not to think to much about it... It doesn't really make sense.
Pretty much this. If you aren't a goon, just blame the goons for whatever goes wrong and you'll fit right in. You just lost your ship The tears will fuel my spaceship Go quit Eve again
-Bane Nucleus-á |

March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1501
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 10:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:March rabbit wrote:personally i disrespect them for: 1) goon requirement scam which was 'officially allowed' - i almost got into it  2) goon shiotoasting in local - you should see it  3) goon propaganda (already mentioned) - in Delve 2012 they won "SoCO" when there was no coalitions at all... 4) goon shiptoasting in forums (example 'pubbies') - just look around It's nothing really special and unique but there are reasons and they are exist Maybe you haven't visited a lot of the other W&T threads; there's plenty of "shiptoasting" (as you call it) in those the Goons don't frequent. agree... lately they are silent. However i'm 5 years in the game so i've seen a lot.
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote: Scams, in general, are allowed in the game, but only the Goons are the bad guys for doing it?*
* = If you fell for it, then you didn't do your homework. There's plenty to be found via a quick search online.
yes, "in general". But when you have it on alliance level it says something...
Again: i'm not speaking that they are worse that others. They are just kind of people i would not keep close. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|

Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
207
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 11:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Best thing to do when just starting out is to stay as far away from 0 and highsec as possible. No good things happen there. Lowsec and WHs are where the fun is. ignore Goons, easiest yet best solution |

Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising The Bastion
1363
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 22:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
CFC line-member perspective GǪ
I joined GÇÿgoonsGÇÖ (CFC) a couple of years ago, pretty much by accident. At the time I was imbued with all that GÇÿGrrr goonsGÇÖ stuff and got a bit of a shock to discover that my old corp (p0lr) had become part of the greater CFC (via the recently closed GENTS alliance).
Having survived that accident I have to say that itGÇÖs actually pretty awesome being a part of this entity. There are so many things you can do GǪ the CFC brand of GÇÿspace communismGÇÖ allows for all sorts of esoteric offshoots and does not go all martial and GÇ£CTA!!GÇ¥ on us GǪ and the support for whatever is being done is top-notch.
Some of the scamming and faeces-talk irks me, but I am entirely free not to engage in that.
It seems to me that the CFC is a very well run eve-entity and the reason itGÇÖs doing so well is the combination of taking a strategic view and having good people working hard to make that happen, along with the sheer range and flexibility of what you can do in this coalition. Of course itGÇÖs convenient, often to all parties, to push the whole GÇÿGrrr goonsGÇÖ mantra. I think most of us quietly revel in it, knowing how good it really is to be a part of this group. I think our leadership actively fosters it, and it probably helps our continued access to streams of incoming new members. I think itGÇÖs just a part of what we are GǪ and the fact that the GÇÿbe classyGÇÖ GENTS alliance could do so well within CFC is testament to the real face of the coalition.
Just my tuppence.
I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |

Luwc
Biohazard. WINMATAR.
135
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 06:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gwen Sotari wrote:Having read about eve for a long time I decided to finally taking the leap and joined earlier this month. Starting out I looked to join a corp and while talking to multiple entities it was very obvious most hated the CFC/Goons and this wasn't just large N3 corps but also smaller corps who have nothing to do with Goons.
So my question is why has such a bad stigma developed against the CFC and in particular Goon Swarm alliance?
The following couple of reasons that I was smothered with when I ask why are they so bad but then when I actually bothered to look into them I just find that coalitions such as N3 are worse.
For example I was often told Goons own most of eve and are ruining nullsec and removing content. I was even told to go look at the sov map and look at all the nasty blue CFC influence towering over the poor N3/PL influence areas and to start with yeah I though wow Goons do own everything But when if you bother to actually look into it this just isn't true.
Using dingos toolbox and roughly counting systems on Dotlan maps (might of missed some of the smaller entities within the coalitions) the CFC own 813 systems of which 679 (83%) are actual alliances and not a renting alliance. Where as with N3/PL out of the 1421 systems only 369 (25%) are non renting systems owned by alliances. So the CFC owns roughly half as many systems but has twice as many members in its coalition. This makes N3 the space hungry isk obsessed tyrant removing content with all the dull renting space.
Another complaint/reason I was told while searching for a corp was that in the CFC you're just a cog in the machine and that the Goons prevent independence. Where as N3 is a free land where you can prosper. Which again I think is untrue.
Take the most recent war. I watched several smaller entities within N3 have their space took off them and the reason being poor performance. How is taking their space away going to increase performance. How about offering better space for better performance. Especially since they own vast swathes of renting space. It just seems spiteful taking away the small amount of space these smaller entities own. Where as in the CFC from what I can tell you're incentivised to perform well as it dictates what space you gain from conflicts, not what space you'll lose.
As I stated I'm new so this could be completely wrong and if so go ahead and troll, rage and belittle me but unless you provide evidence as to why I'm wrong I'll ignore you :)
Long Story Short :
CFC / Goons f*cked a lot of peoples stuff up. Now they are pretty mad at goons/cfc. Mainly because they lost to metagaming i.e. awoxing alts. spys and 'dirty tricks'.
Most famous "GRRR GOONS" Moments/Actions in my opinion
BR-5 Disbanding BoB Killing IT Alliance Burn jita Killing Evoke Taking a lot of Sov from other people The Mittani telling some looser on fanfest to kill himself IRL. Goons taking a lot of pocos Miniluv ganking other peoples crap Pissing Gevlon off so he writes more stupid EN24 articles. http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |

Gwen Sotari
Free Conglomerate
0
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 10:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'll agree on a few of those contributing to the 'Grr Goons' such as Burn Jita (even though idiots are the only ones who suffer from that) and the fanfest incident but the rest isnGÇÖt restricted to Goons.
As stated in my original post N3/PL have taken way more sov so surely 'Grr N3/PL' is more appropriate.
Killing off alliances isn't unique to Goons. Plus in Tests case didn't they do everything humanly possible to **** Goons off while they were in the CFC. It wasn't like Test was the innocent kid in that one.
From what I've read Goons donGÇÖt even own that many pocos in high (could be wrong),
Every one Ganks everyone not just Goons. In my brief time in highsec I've seen multiple Ganks by all sorts of poeple. CODE alliance for example,
Everyone pisses of Gelvon and his articles are fun to read so a tip my hat to Goons for that one ^^
http://filmskribenten.dk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/nicolas-cage-cat.jpg |

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5139
|
Posted - 2014.05.28 22:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:personally i disrespect them for: 1) goon requirement scam which was 'officially allowed' - i almost got into it  2) goon shiotoasting in local - you should see it  3) goon propaganda (already mentioned) - in Delve 2012 they won "SoCO" when there was no coalitions at all... 4) goon shiptoasting in forums (example 'pubbies') - just look around It's nothing really special and unique but there are reasons and they are exist
This is a good example of shitposting. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal & proud member of the popular gay hookup site, somethingawful.com |

Catalytic morphisis
Rock Huggers Inc The Pears of Anguish
9
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 03:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't see the issue, Goons are great fun to go **** about with solo, always a guaranteed kill or 2 in their space once you get past gate camps (Until they drop a 50 man fleet on your solo wolf) as for the metaplay, All alliances, Regardless of size do it to some level, Hell even 30 man Low sec alliances use forms of metaplay to achieve their goals, Even my 10 man corp use metaplay to achieve results.
|

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Senex Legio
203
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 04:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
I know another political entity in the game that is even worse about hot-dropping stuff. They're pretty much infamous for it. "I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!" |

WASPY69
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
285
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 18:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Goons aren't EVE players, they're all a part of the SomethingAwful community and culture, and they just happen to play EVE. From experience they are bad at small gang pvp but will wreck you in bloc size fights.
Their goal isn't to ruin the game, but ruin YOUR game. Be it taking your sov, ganking your miners in high sec, or scamming you out of your last isk. The general attitude is zero fu*ks given. Never not create hilarious lossmails.
You really should consider signing up on SA and then join them. They love newbro's and will shower you with isk. And soon enough you will make your pilgrimage to JU-rusalem and become a null bear, and in no time you have enough isk to get your own Titan. |

X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2241
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 19:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
You sure know your way around this game for being a "One month old character." Troll Rating: 4/10
|

Gwen Sotari
Free Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 19:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote: You sure know your way around this game for being a "One month old character." Troll Rating: 4/10
If you bothered to read my initial post I have been following and reading about the game for a long time and only recently decided to start. Therefore I know some stuff and what have I said which makes me anything but new? Ive just spoke about the history of Goons really which anyone can read 
I just like to know the game I'm playing instead of half heartedly playing a game I know nothing about http://filmskribenten.dk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/nicolas-cage-cat.jpg |

Voyager Arran
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
217
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 19:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:I know another political entity in the game that is even worse about hot-dropping stuff. They're pretty much infamous for it.
Have you heard of these guys called Pandemic Legion? |

Cephelange du'Krevviq
Senex Legio
203
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 21:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Voyager Arran wrote:Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote:I know another political entity in the game that is even worse about hot-dropping stuff. They're pretty much infamous for it. Have you heard of these guys called Pandemic Legion?
That's who I was referring to.  "I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!" |

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
56
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 02:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
We hate them for their freedom. |

Allison A'vani
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
134
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 17:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Posting in a Grrr Goons thread, sup . BTW, N3/PL don't hate goons, only pubbies who don't know any better do. Without someone to fight, this game would be boring. Looking forward to the fights this winter Goonies!
|

Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1295
|
Posted - 2014.06.11 17:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lots of miners like goons. Goons and the cfc have been very open to industrial corps which was a pretty large change from when BOB was around.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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