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Blitz Apollo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.05.27 13:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
Afternoon folks,
Been looking at getting a missile boat for a while to replace my Rattlesnake, been looking at a CNR, Typhoon Fleet and SNI for instance. However, I got thinking about the new Kronos changes to the Rattlesnake and started wondering if I could make it an efficient missile boat. Came up with this fit, its a bit of a mix but looking for some comments about how effectively it would work.
5x Cruise Missile Launcer II 1x Drone Link Augmentor II
Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster Pith B-Type EM Ward Field Pith B-Type Thermic Diss. Field. 3x Republic Fleet Target Painter 1x Large MJD
4x Ballistic Control Unit 2x Drone Damage Amplifier
2x Rigor II 1x Flare I
1. I am in Amarr space, hence the EM/Therm resistances, I know this isn't ideal, but it is what it is. 2. It is possible of course to carry a Jump Unit, lose the MJD and fit an adaptive.
Stats with my skills
1296 DPS with Inferno Furies and Gecko, 1250 with 2x Garde 1. 320m Explosion Radius with T2 missiles, 210 with Caldari Navy.
2.30 cap time with all running, stable without booster. 538 burst tank against Sansha.
Cheers,
BA
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unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
85
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Posted - 2014.05.27 13:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
consider me crazy, but have you consider to drop Pith B Large for XL Gist C? XL Gist C use 16 GJ more than Pith B Large but give 261 raw shield hp more over same period
in fact, Gist C XL is twice effective than Pith B Large. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2014.05.27 13:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
3x tp is probably overkill, even for furys, you have drones for small targets.
the dps @ all lv5 and 5% implants should be around 1300 for navy and 1500 for fury , with wardens and 2x3 damage mods. |
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.05.27 13:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
unidenify wrote:consider me crazy, but have you consider to drop Pith B Large for XL Gist C? XL Gist C use 16 GJ more than Pith B Large but give 261 raw shield hp more over same period
in fact, Gist C XL is twice effective than Pith B Large.
I shall look into it man. How much is it out of interest? |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
85
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Posted - 2014.05.27 14:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Blitz Apollo wrote:unidenify wrote:consider me crazy, but have you consider to drop Pith B Large for XL Gist C? XL Gist C use 16 GJ more than Pith B Large but give 261 raw shield hp more over same period
in fact, Gist C XL is twice effective than Pith B Large. I shall look into it man. How much is it out of interest?
XL Gist C is about 500 million isk in market.
I consider it to be worth of my isk for my Scorpion Navy and Golem. |
Illiar D'Anaari
Lassandar
28
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Posted - 2014.05.27 16:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wouldn't you get more damage out of a split 3 DDA+3 BCS instead of 2+4? |
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2014.05.27 16:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Illiar D'Anaari wrote:Wouldn't you get more damage out of a split 3 DDA+3 BCS instead of 2+4?
Quite possibly yes. However, had the intention of making this boat a primary missile ship with drones as support. Either way it would be 1.3k DPS +. |
Egravant Alduin
republic fleet battle support
144
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 10:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
I always loved rattlesnake and now with kronos it will be in place it worth to be.A beast!Gratz for your fit but i would also go 3+3 damage mods. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
15686
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 11:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think a Drone navigation comp might be more useful than that 3rd TP. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!" |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc. Constructive. Criticism.
105
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 11:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
not using eft to check the fitting but here are a few changes in the fit i would think about
5x Cruise Missile Launcer II 1x Drone Link Augmentor
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pith A-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pith A-Type Thermic Diss. Amplifier Republic Fleet Target Painter 2x Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Computer Large MJD
3x Ballistic Control Unit 3x Drone Damage Amplifier
2x Rigor II 1x Drone Scope II |
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Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 14:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:not using eft to check the fitting but here are a few changes in the fit i would think about
5x Cruise Missile Launcer II 1x Drone Link Augmentor
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pith A-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pith A-Type Thermic Diss. Amplifier Republic Fleet Target Painter 2x Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Computer Large MJD
3x Ballistic Control Unit 3x Drone Damage Amplifier
2x Rigor II 1x Drone Scope II
Thats probably over cpu and over calibration.
Why 2xomni, and navy to boot and a scope? |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc. Constructive. Criticism.
106
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 14:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:not using eft to check the fitting but here are a few changes in the fit i would think about
5x Cruise Missile Launcer II 1x Drone Link Augmentor
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Pith A-Type EM Ward Amplifier Pith A-Type Thermic Diss. Amplifier Republic Fleet Target Painter 2x Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Computer Large MJD
3x Ballistic Control Unit 3x Drone Damage Amplifier
2x Rigor II 1x Drone Scope II Thats probably over cpu and over calibration. Why 2xomni, and navy to boot and a scope?
to use gardes somewhat efficiently (should get them up to 70km range) navy because they r slightly better and need less cpu if cpu is an issue use caldari navy bcu and c-type amps
and yeah thats what i thought to thats why i stated i havent checked on eft but its a basic i would try out, let me play abit around in eft and i will see what i can do. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
432
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 15:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Are you planning on primarily MJD-sniping with sentries? If so... - That fit is WAY overtanked. 2 T2 hardeners and a slightly pimped large SB is all you need for tank. - You need another drone link augmentor. With just the one, you'll MJD and then discover that your DPS drops by half since you can't hit anything with drones. - At least one of those TPs should be an Omni, it'll help sentries more.
If you're *not* planning on MJD-sniping with sentries, then you should probably swap the MJD for an AB or MWD, depending on mission.
Honestly, if you want primarily missiles with drones secondary, get a Typhoon or TFI. Even with fury cruise, the rattlesnake still ends up as a 50/50 split due to the lower number of launchers compared to other missile boats (7.5 vs 8 for everything else or 8.25 for TFI).
And just as they said they were getting rid of split weapon boats, they go and introduce another one...
EDIT: Also note that the Rattlesnake's default lock range of only 93.75km with max skills might cause problems with the MJD. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 16:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote: EDIT 3: just to make sure i wont fly fits that ******* expensive.
Yeh, 1.8bil, black eagle helps :) , still over cpu (cruise implant is slot 6), also the 0.5% per navy omni more optimal with gardes doing 50% damage at 70km.... |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc. Constructive. Criticism.
106
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 16:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Barton Breau wrote:Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote: EDIT 3: just to make sure i wont fly fits that ******* expensive.
Yeh, 1.8bil, black eagle helps :) , still over cpu (cruise implant is slot 6), also the 0.5% per navy omni more optimal with gardes doing 50% damage at 70km....
actually with modifying it u can get it down to a geno set if u want :P |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2014.05.29 16:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:Barton Breau wrote:Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote: EDIT 3: just to make sure i wont fly fits that ******* expensive.
Yeh, 1.8bil, black eagle helps :) , still over cpu (cruise implant is slot 6), also the 0.5% per navy omni more optimal with gardes doing 50% damage at 70km.... actually with modifying it u can get it down to a geno set if u want :P
:)
What playstyle were you aiming at anyways? |
Hasril Pux
Red Cabal
45
|
Posted - 2014.06.01 20:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
I've been playing around with this fit on Singularity. It's not a max damage fit, but it does over 1300 dps with faction ammo and over 1500 with fury. It can target at 117km and do its full damage from 0 to 104k, has a set of Warrior IIs for close encounters with fast moving targets. It uses an LMJD for positioning.
This fit is extremely tight on CPU. You need perfect skills. However, you can switch out the Pith-A for a Pith-B and use faction hardeners. As long as their not invulns, Guristas hardeners are pretty cheap. Or you can take off an Omni and throw on another TP. That will loosen up the CPU a bit.
If you want a cheaper build use the above suggestions to slacken up CPU and replace the Caldari Navy BCS's with standard Tech II. You'll still get over 1200 dps with max skills.
Use mission specific hardeners.
[Cabal Kodiak - Rattlesnake]
{highs} Drone Link Augmentor II 5x Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
{mids} Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster Large Micro Jump Drive Kinetic Deflection Field II Thermic Dissipation Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron 2x Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
{lows} 3x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System 3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
{rigs} Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Ionic Field Projector I
{drones} Warrior II x5 Garde II x2 Warden II x2 Bouncer II x2
{ammo} Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Scourge Fury Cruise Missile (TBH I never use the Furys)
Caldari Navy Inferno Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile (As far as I know these are still better than precisions vs. small targets)
Tracking Speed Script If you like any of the older ship models (original artwork) better than the redesign of your favorite hull and don't want them to be lost forever, support ship customization and this feature request. |
Kesshisan
108
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Posted - 2014.06.04 04:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
[Rattlesnake, Sniper] Drone Damage Amplifier II Sentient Drone Damage Amplifier Sentient Drone Damage Amplifier Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script Republic Fleet Target Painter Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field Large Shield Booster II (Change to faction shield booster of choice if you want.) 100MN Afterburner II (Change to faction AB of choice if you want.) Large Micro Jump Drive
Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Large Ionic Field Projector I Large Ionic Field Projector I Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Bouncer II x2 Garde II x2 Berserker II x2
With all V, this beast does 1303 damage with Bouncers and 4x Cruise Missile Launchers (using long range T2 Kinetic or Thermic missiles.) It's about a 50/50 split in damage between drones and missiles. The Optimal range of your drones is ~70k, with 80k falloff using 2x Optimal Range scripts. This also gives you a lock range of 142km. That means that your Bouncers can hit things at that range, alas your missiles cannot. Those start to hit things around 100km depending on your skills.
The AB is a really handy tool to have in general, but I found that it becomes very valuable for "stopping" after a MJD. After you jump, activate your AB, and hit ctrl-space to stop. You stop much faster with the AB on for two or three cycles permitting you to not drop your sentry drones earlier. And it helps out for getting to gates faster, too.
Reasoning for drones chosen: Garde and Bouncers are the drones you have likely trained for specialization. I know I had Gallente and Minmatar trained pre patch. That means you probably have no extra training needed. And the Berserkers have the best tracking of heavy drones. With All Vs, and 2x Tracking scripts, Berserkers track at ~1.5 rads / second. That's almost 180 degrees / second. This means they will kill even the fastest of frigates if things get close. Though with proper management, you shouldn't need to use them too much, still they're very handy when things get too close for your Gardes.
You shouldn't need to worry about many flare or rigor rigs because your drones can kill most frigates and cruisers with ease, even at 100k+. Save your missiles for the battlecruisers and battleships.
Don't forget to swap your scripts around when necessary. Learning the optimal range of your drones, and swap to fit your needs at the moment.
I run a Dominix very much like this, though much less faction gear, and (of course) no missiles. Tank is almost unnecessary once you get the hang of things. My Dominix is Armor tanked, and in some missions I never even run out of shield. MJDs are amazing for things like this. I used to think that any strategy which required your victim to be stupid to work wasn't sound.
...then I started playing EvE online. |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
49
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 11:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Just one tp on its own is not enough for furys, i fear, keep in mind that battleships can go as fast as 350m/s at times,especially as you are planning to range tank.
EDIT: also talk about tracking and gardes with mjd? odd |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
49
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 11:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hasril Pux wrote:I've been playing around with this fit on Singularity.
Since you dont use furys, have you tried
- painter + sebo - ionic + flare II - range augmentor II + range augmentor I
Less annoyance with painting?
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Gregor Parud
572
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Posted - 2014.06.04 11:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
It's not a dedicated missile ship and as such one probably shouldn't waste too many rigs and modules on missiles alone, it might look great on paper but in reality it'll be a ***** to use sentries, missiles and painters at the same time. As such you're better off to, generally, not use fury but use faction instead and use those freed up mid slots for other stuff.
Here's a valid realistic fit that isn't overly silly or dumb. It does require a cpu implant.
[Rattlesnake, LVL 4] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II
100MN Afterburner II Large Micro Jump Drive Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Thermic Dissipation Field Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Garde II x2 Warden II x2 Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 |
ChromeStriker
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
733
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 12:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dont forget your faction drone damage mods.... i need more loot drops!!!
No Worries |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2014.06.04 12:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Dont forget your faction drone damage mods.... i need more loot drops!!!
Dunno why some people are so obsessed with X-large boosters for the price of a ship on a lmjd fit bs.... |
Barton Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
49
|
Posted - 2014.06.04 12:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
How about the usual
[Rattlesnake, Drone + Cruise basic] Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier Drone Damage Amplifier II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II
Large Micro Jump Drive Experimental 100MN Afterburner I F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I
Warden II x2 Bouncer II x2
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