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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
3214
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 02:40:00 -
[61] - Quote
What I hated was when an update came, and the station crews all over the cluster scrambled to remove and trash a launcher slot off of all of my Hurricanes. "Were [sic] not your monkey and so what?"-á -The Sex Pistols (2006) |

Decado Thellere
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 08:01:00 -
[62] - Quote
Seems to me the game designers can look at the while process right from training to use mining barges and strip miners right through to manufacturing the 'best' items (for whatever value of best you deem appropriate) and they can decide what time sink should be required in total for any given outcome and, further, how that time sink should be split at each stage in the process.
Since there is no time sink in reprocessing I can only assume that the need for refining is only in the game to manage cargo size. Miners mine big things, which limit how much they can do without a fleet or alt hauler, or by jet can mining. These big things are a pain to transport all over the place so refining is added to turn them into small things which are easier to transport. The time sink to obtain these minerals is all in the mining activity and associated skills, with bonus materials for going through the refining skills time sink.
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Jur Tissant
Hemah Industries
74
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 12:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
Not everything in EVE makes sense. This applies to most video games. It makes them fun.
Mining is already boring and profitless enough as it is. Don't ask me to spend hours mining ore and then have to wait for the minerals to refine. The difference between refining modules/ore and manufacturing is that you can't make much of a profit from buying stuff and refining it. |

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
4646
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 12:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
Decado Thellere wrote:Seems to me the game designers can look at the while process right from training to use mining barges and strip miners right through to manufacturing the 'best' items (for whatever value of best you deem appropriate) and they can decide what time sink should be required in total for any given outcome and, further, how that time sink should be split at each stage in the process.
Since there is no time sink in reprocessing I can only assume that the need for refining is only in the game to manage cargo size. Miners mine big things, which limit how much they can do without a fleet or alt hauler, or by jet can mining. These big things are a pain to transport all over the place so refining is added to turn them into small things which are easier to transport. The time sink to obtain these minerals is all in the mining activity and associated skills, with bonus materials for going through the refining skills time sink.
You must be SO much fun to be stuck in a lift with "A naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares "As Ramona previously mentioned, that is correct." --áISD Supogo |

Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
588
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 12:50:00 -
[65] - Quote
I can totally imagine some entirely new market niches opening up if refining won't be instant anymore.
The direct consequence would be 'boring gameplay' for refining alone, however if implemented correctly it could open up a lot more opportunities outside of it.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all... |

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
4648
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 13:10:00 -
[66] - Quote
Spooky
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/384x216/legacy/clip/p00ldpj4.jpg?nodefault=true "A naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares "As Ramona previously mentioned, that is correct." --áISD Supogo |

Da'iel Zehn
Evil Frosty's Premium Liqours and Fine Wines
160
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 13:20:00 -
[67] - Quote
Cristl wrote:...you can smelt millions of tons of ore instantly...
*whispers harshly and waves hands erratically* "Shush it up! Shhhh!"
*looks around for devs hoping they don't overhear this nonsense*
 Daniel Zehn Keeper of Evil Frosty
PLEX for...-á :-) |

Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
119
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 15:59:00 -
[68] - Quote
At least some other people share a little disquiet I see. For people thinking along lines like Jur (#63) I'd offer:
Jur Tissant wrote:Not everything in EVE makes sense. This applies to most video games. It makes them fun. Indeed. I'm all for fun, engaging and intelligent gameplay over realism.
Quote:Mining is already boring and profitless enough as it is. Don't ask me to spend hours mining ore and then have to wait for the minerals to refine. The refining could be set up and left while you did other things or logged off. I'm obviously not suggesting that you have to actively watch the process. Also, other aspects such as mining could be sped up to compensate GÇô there's no need for the overall time to market to increase.
Quote:The difference between refining modules/ore and manufacturing is that you can't make much of a profit from buying stuff and refining it. Yeah, and that's because refining is instant. You're aware of the phrase 'time equals money', right? Well there it is. If you offer a service that others can do instantly and effortlessly, then no one buys your service.
If refining took time, there would be a refining mini-profession: more people would need to chip-in in larger corporations, and newbies with fair-to-middling refining skills could still be of use. Imagine if they could accept refining contracts from industrial big-shots and make a little extra cash while they run their level two missions. It's an MMO remember: the more interaction the better.
And if POSes then needed an extra buff to refining (over the proposed buff in Crius), who would object?
ps. If they want to combine refining and reprocessing into one word, then smelting would make more sense than reprocessing. |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1106
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 16:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
Updating/placing new market orders should require complete paperwork to be filled with the Station broker. It's a team but there are only let's say 12 available at any given time in a single station.
That would totally be a fun mechanic.
EDIT : A whole new meta of "station camping" would be born. |

Decado Thellere
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.05.30 16:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Decado Thellere wrote:Seems to me the game designers can look at the while process right from training to use mining barges and strip miners right through to manufacturing the 'best' items (for whatever value of best you deem appropriate) and they can decide what time sink should be required in total for any given outcome and, further, how that time sink should be split at each stage in the process.
Since there is no time sink in reprocessing I can only assume that the need for refining is only in the game to manage cargo size. Miners mine big things, which limit how much they can do without a fleet or alt hauler, or by jet can mining. These big things are a pain to transport all over the place so refining is added to turn them into small things which are easier to transport. The time sink to obtain these minerals is all in the mining activity and associated skills, with bonus materials for going through the refining skills time sink.
You must be SO much fun to be stuck in a lift with
I've never been stuck in a lift but I'm sure I'd be good company. Unless I've been eating beans, in which case you may want to take an alternate route.
Maybe an alternate building. |

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
56
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 16:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Updating/placing new market orders should require complete paperwork to be filled with the Station broker. It's a team but there are only let's say 12 available at any given time in a single station.
That would totally be a fun mechanic.
EDIT : A whole new meta of "station camping" would be born.
Also we should have to file a comprehensive flight plan every time we plan to undock that lists all the systems we will be passing through on route to our destination. Processing times will vary between 2 and 4 hours after which you will be allowed to undock. |

Cristl
Perkone Caldari State
120
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 17:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Updating/placing new market orders should require complete paperwork to be filled with the Station broker. It's a team but there are only let's say 12 available at any given time in a single station.
That would totally be a fun mechanic.
EDIT : A whole new meta of "station camping" would be born. Also we should have to file a comprehensive flight plan every time we plan to undock that lists all the systems we will be passing through on route to our destination. Processing times will vary between 2 and 4 hours after which you will be allowed to undock. Hilarious excerpts from "my first sarcastic comment", medium: crayola #4 on paper. Fantastic.
Remember, this would not have to require any extra clicks. You would still be going from 'clicks' to 'get bacon', just with a time delay. But that little delay would increase the value of people with so-so refining skills by a lot. At the moment they break the rule of "you can still be useful with less than optimal skills" that Eve values dearly. |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1106
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 18:14:00 -
[73] - Quote
Cristl wrote:Harrison Tato wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Updating/placing new market orders should require complete paperwork to be filled with the Station broker. It's a team but there are only let's say 12 available at any given time in a single station.
That would totally be a fun mechanic.
EDIT : A whole new meta of "station camping" would be born. Also we should have to file a comprehensive flight plan every time we plan to undock that lists all the systems we will be passing through on route to our destination. Processing times will vary between 2 and 4 hours after which you will be allowed to undock. Hilarious excerpts from "my first sarcastic comment", medium: crayola #4 on paper. Fantastic. Remember, this would not have to require any extra clicks. You would still be going from 'clicks' to 'get bacon', just with a time delay. But that little delay would increase the value of people with so-so refining skills by a lot. At the moment they break the rule of "you can still be useful with less than optimal skills" that Eve values dearly.
Fine then just add a delay to market order before they appear because of the paper work simulation and stocking the items in the right place.
All you are doing is adding a delay for no reason at all from a gameplay point of view. The reason why refining is inseatt is mostly because it does not matter since minerals are not a finished product that need to be limited before it reach market. If we removed build time from production for example, BPO would become ridiculous as you could make infinite batches in the time it takes to amke a few clicks thus completely flooding any market anywhere as long as there are at least 1 slot available. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
22282
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 18:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Cristl wrote:Hilarious excerpts from "my first sarcastic comment", medium: crayola #4 on paper. Fantastic. So you agree, then, since you have no other argument and have to rely on fallacies.
Quote:Remember, this would not have to require any extra clicks. You would still be going from 'clicks' to 'get bacon', just with a time delay. Why?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1460

|
Posted - 2014.05.30 20:48:00 -
[75] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1840
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 02:06:00 -
[76] - Quote
An ore refining timer would be welcome, imo. Its no more radical then a manufacturing or a research timer.
The immediate result would be miners spreading out to less crowded systems. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5362
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 04:48:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It's kind of the same as why compression is being made instant: because it's a time sink that just gets in the way of the intended purpose of moving stuff around long distances with less hassle.
Thus rendering the idea of "local manufacture" meaningless. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |

Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1840
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 06:04:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Tippia wrote:It's kind of the same as why compression is being made instant: because it's a time sink that just gets in the way of the intended purpose of moving stuff around long distances with less hassle. Thus rendering the idea of "local manufacture" meaningless.
Pretty much, if CCP wants people to spread out, they do everything imaginable so they pack into same place. Therefore you have to assume that CCP really wants everyone on the same little box. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |

Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
2412
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 11:19:00 -
[79] - Quote
Dear OP, because if the Good Lord can make an entire universe in six days, then refining etc, is just child's play. This is not a signature. |

Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
362
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 15:00:00 -
[80] - Quote
Let me see...'cause it takes less time to destroy something than to make something? NO? Well.... ...what else COULD it be then? Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to. |
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