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Albrecht Wassenar
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Posted - 2006.06.06 00:34:00 -
[31]
If we are really going to get into the science of determining "Where the hell am I?" in space, we need to talk about Pulsars. Seeing as how that aspect is not even discussed in the fiction or ingame elements, I doubt very much that we will have a sure answer from any of the matierial provided by the Devs or the game. However from the impression I got from the cannon fiction is that the shape of the EvE galaxy was either generic or unknown from any known from the Milky Way, and that we couldnt find any familiar pulsars at all.
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Erik Pathfinder
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Posted - 2006.06.06 00:57:00 -
[32]
I like this thread. Very interesting idea about the Jovians.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.06.06 00:59:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Nyphur
Jupiter's moons, in most Sci-fi, are usually one of the first places to be colonised after Mars. I would guess that at some time in Earth's history (from eve's point of view), the Jovian colonies declared independance. When the eve gate collapsed, those from jupiter probably began using genetic manipulation to suit harsher environments and thus didn't go through the complete regression of technology and culture that the other races did.
I wonder why they didn't put martians in too. 
Maybe people wouldn't take it seriously
That's just it. "Jovian" is the new "Martian".
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Frezik
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Posted - 2006.06.06 02:34:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Alessandra Grey
Perhaps the angel cartel was a forerunner experiment to the four main races and the Jove kept them in their own space for closehand observation, and when the experiment failed or the next experiment began, they transplanted them to another region of space.
The Angel Cartel is one of the younger pirate factions in Eve, and they clearly come primarily from Minmatar and Gallente roots. They have a few designs which are alledgedly based on old Jove designs (e.g. the Machriel), since they inhabit the region of one of the old Jove empires (the current Jove empire is the third one, IIRC).
Quote:
We know that in the beginnings of the eve races, each race had to start from square one, discovering means for space travel and whatnot. All of the technology we see is, according to lore, the result of thousands of years of progressive advances and some major leaps made by the provision of technology by none other than the jove.
Not entirely from square one. The Amarr developed stargates by finding an old one in their system. The Gallente and Caldari (who share a home system) didn't find an in-tact stargate, so they had to mostly reinvent the science. There are no ancient stargates in the Minmatar home system (an interesting oddity in itself), and they never did invent the technology until the Amarr conquored them.
None of this indicates any meddelling by the Jove.
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Ergo, we have no knowledge of where we really are, only clues left by the one race that seems to have all the keys and keep suspiciously quiet. For all we know, Jove space could contain Sol, as well as all of the other major charted close-to-home systems (i.e. alpha-centauri) and we've simply renamed them over the course of thousands of years because we didn't know any better and we were led to believe that we were in another galaxy.
The opening movie is quite explicit about the fact that the Eve wormhole opened to another galaxy.
Additionally, Sol itself can't have a stargate of its own. Stargates require at least two stars in the system to work. So while alpha proxima (a trinary system) could have a gate, much slower means would have to be used to get there.
That is, unless you buy the Nemesis theory, which, it must be admitted, is on very shaky scientific grounds.
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In addition, when doing a diagnostic comparison with the eve galaxy and the milky way galaxy insofar as game mechanics can allow (this done by taking a 2-d map of both the milky way galaxy and the eve-galaxy), I discovered that when layered and geometrically alligned, the position of jove space roughly coincides with the area of the milky way galaxy that Sol resides in. The galactic arms of the eve galaxy also line up almost perfectly with the galactic arms of the milky way when laid on a two dimensional plane.
I think this can be put down to coincidence. A lot of constellations are going to look like a lot of other constellations if you squint enough.
Where the backstory stands now, any theory on the Joves must also take into account what was revealed in Theodicy concerning the "Dark Jove". One must also remember that all details on the Dark Jove come from the Jove themselves, who may not represent an unbiased source. The Dark Jove are supposedly the main enemies of the Jove, are more technologically advanced, and are not human "anymore".
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"Well in this case, he's being flamed, and rightly so, for whinning about a game mechanic that doesn't actually exist." -Lorth |
Defiant Soldier
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Posted - 2006.06.06 03:01:00 -
[35]
The theory is very, very interesting. To all those you state the Introduction movie, remember: is that movie not based off of what history the people of EvE have been taught?
We can only know what has been taught, and if there was some kind of cover-up, if the people had be taught from the beginneng that they were in another galaxy, how would they know otherwise?
And yes, I do enjoy conspiracy theories. 
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Defying the universe, one person at a time. |
Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2006.06.06 03:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Wrangler
The Jove are supposed to be very mysterious, so I guess anything is possible.
Frank Horrigan here, Kindly requesting more JOBIAN news articles and events. as they are DIEING OUT OF EVE lately.
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Niccolado Starwalker
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Posted - 2006.06.06 07:00:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 06/06/2006 07:02:09
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Nyphur
Jupiter's moons, in most Sci-fi, are usually one of the first places to be colonised after Mars. I would guess that at some time in Earth's history (from eve's point of view), the Jovian colonies declared independance. When the eve gate collapsed, those from jupiter probably began using genetic manipulation to suit harsher environments and thus didn't go through the complete regression of technology and culture that the other races did.
I wonder why they didn't put martians in too.
Maybe people wouldn't take it seriously
They are allready ingame. Better known as "Band of [green Martian] Brothers"  After all, we know that the Devs of CCP are from Mars...
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Kraik Graeme
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Posted - 2006.06.06 07:30:00 -
[38]
Very interesting theory Alessandra. Havent the devs said on more that one occassion, that there is a "gate" to the jovians. I think its brilliant if it is the the evegate, so obvious(ie. not hidden in the slightest) that no one for so long questioned what it "might" be used for.
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Novarei
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Posted - 2006.06.06 08:24:00 -
[39]
the eve cluster is far from sol, jove space does not contain sol. The original people who went through the eve gate would have figured this out.
There are lots of SF books/movies that use the word 'jovian' or 'jove' not relating to jupiter. Btw tractor beams dont contain real tractors.
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Tehyarec
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Posted - 2006.06.06 08:29:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Tehyarec on 06/06/2006 08:30:13
Jove being Terrans is very very unlikely in my books. I just don't see the point of overhauling the whole damn backstory with a silly stunt like that. Suffice to say I'd be very, very disappointed. It wouldn't be interesting, it'd be lame It would make this whole "remote pocket of humanity rising from the ashes" thing fall apart and ruin it.
There isn't really any major reason to believe Jove have Sol. Heck, Milky Way isn't that full of nebulaes anyway Also, from all that CCP has implied Tech III+ will be based on mostly archaeology stuff - basically finding old relics of Terran tech the original settlers from the other side of the gate came in with (like that Tech III railgun in the database). All that combined with the backstories and intro and whatnot just don't support the "Jove = Terran" equation.
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K Shara
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Posted - 2006.06.06 08:33:00 -
[41]
curious, however what is in a name ?
The Jovians, may be the remanent of the jovians colonies from Sol system.
<><><><><><><><><>
Contraband
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Jonathan Davis
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Posted - 2006.06.06 08:42:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Novarei
There are lots of SF books/movies that use the word 'jovian' or 'jove' not relating to jupiter. Btw tractor beams dont contain real tractors.
That made my morning . I dunno why, but the image of a beam of tractors shooting out from a BS just makes me smile .
And It would be a nice twist if the Jovians were Terrans all along, but that big a plot twist imo should be reserved for Books and Films, not MMOs. The EVE gate being harnessed by the Jove as a secret entrance to their space however, if 'introduced' well, as a series of large events (a la Crielere) culminating in a big fleet fight between the Jove and someone else (a couple of pirate factions, maybe the Ammarians?) to introduce factonal warefare/tech III ...etc would be ****in kick ass .
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Novarei
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Posted - 2006.06.06 08:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Jonathan Davis
Originally by: Novarei
There are lots of SF books/movies that use the word 'jovian' or 'jove' not relating to jupiter. Btw tractor beams dont contain real tractors.
That made my morning. I dunno why, but the image of a beam of tractors shooting out from a BS just makes me smile .
I smell a photoshop...
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
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Posted - 2006.06.06 09:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Frezik
Where the backstory stands now, any theory on the Joves must also take into account what was revealed in Theodicy concerning the "Dark Jove". One must also remember that all details on the Dark Jove come from the Jove themselves, who may not represent an unbiased source. The Dark Jove are supposedly the main enemies of the Jove, are more technologically advanced, and are not human "anymore".
This sounds quite like an extrapolation of Bruce Sterlings Schismatrix.
Dunno on which page it was mentioned .. but in this story was something like "Jove Syndicate/Coalition/?" which referred to a organisational structure claiming the Space around Jupiter.
The interesting thing is - Schismatrix tells the story of the struggle between the Shaper (biogenetic enhanced humans) and Mechanists (cybernetic enhanced humans) ... in some ways it sounds like Jove = Shapers and Dark Jove = Mechanists. Only extrapolated a few thousand years in the future ...
[rabble rabble rabble]  
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Planek
Destruction under the influence
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Posted - 2006.08.02 04:56:00 -
[45]
When the first settlers arived in new eden they created a jump gate from new eden to promised land, the first gated system. What is stopping us from creating a new gate directly to a jove system such as a gate from JZV-F4 to N-FKXV. This distance is nothing compared to other jumps in eve.
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Professional Troll
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Posted - 2006.08.02 05:38:00 -
[46]
Necromancer!
Burn him!
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Biardi
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Posted - 2006.08.02 05:52:00 -
[47]
I hesitate to believe that New Eden is the Milky Way, because like somebody said (take credit, I couldn't find your post), the density of nebulae in New Eden suggests that it is either far younger or far older than the Milky Way...It's possible that in the tens of thousands of years between now and EVE enough stars would die and create the nebulae, but it's improbable.
Plus, the reason for colonists coming to New Eden at all was a lack of resources in the Milky Way. Technology existed at the time to travel to all corners of the milky way, but apparently not to other galaxies, I believe, so going to another spot in or near the milky would hardly solve the problem.
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R3aliti
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Posted - 2006.08.02 06:06:00 -
[48]
Edited by: R3aliti on 02/08/2006 06:08:42
There is a very good short story "Theodicy" which explains why the Jovens are unreachable and why they keep a distance from the rest of the races. You can find this under backstory - short stories. Very good story and very insightful of the struggle between the races. I enjoyed it very much and have passed it on to other non-eve friends who thought it was an excellent story also. I now bring it to your attention also. :-)
R3
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Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.08.02 07:01:00 -
[49]
There's a book called The Cassini Division, in which humanity went forward, however a group of them became genetically enhanced. They left society behind, and went off to Jupiter and became known as the "Jovians."
They advanced far faster than humans, and in the end came back to conquer them.
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gfldex
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Posted - 2006.08.02 07:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Nyphur
the Jovian colonies declared independance.
When you watch the intro movie carefully you will learn that space exploration was driven by cooperations, not by any government. They don't had to get independent because they allready where. If you want to find out about the origin of the name of the Jove faction you have to think about the name of the cooperation that got the settlers in.
What's about Jupiter Enterprises?
The whole eve universe is build around cooperations. Most players sadly dont realize that fact. They start to struggly to understand why CONCORD is not going after criminals and in the end cry for a government where no such government actually is.
But that may be matter of a different thread. :)
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$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.08.02 07:44:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Frezik
...Not entirely from square one. The Amarr developed stargates by finding an old one in their system. The Gallente and Caldari (who share a home system) didn't find an in-tact stargate, so they had to mostly reinvent the science. There are no ancient stargates in the Minmatar home system (an interesting oddity in itself), and they never did invent the technology until the Amarr conquored them...
My understanding is that the Minmatar had interplanetary slip gates like the deadspace gates but nothing that would get them out of the system. The Ray of Matar also suggests advanced nano-tech or similar. The Matari didn't invest that heavily in space travel as they were blessed with a fertile world and they had no need to head to the stars in search of new land or resources. Tribal warfare probably went a long way to keeping the population at a managable level and the focus on conflict rather than global co-operation (something the other 'empires' got to long ago) is probably what make the Brutor so strong or the Sebeistor so cunning.
It is interesting to note that the Matari have a lot of focus on bloodline and the Voluval hints at the ability to tap family traits through tech. The Brutor and Vheriokor tribes are both branches of the lost Starkmanir tribe, it will be interesting to see if this becomes key in reviving that bloodline in a lab and somehow replacing the lost elders thereby unifying the tribal council.
Another thing I am interested in, and its a shame I never got into the COSMOS stuff, is this sleeper tech and the other four. Has anyone done enough of COSMOS to piece the story together? I often wondered if the Matari had no gate and a paradise world because they came on a sleeper ship and sent a terraformer ahead of them. From another Earther colony?, just not via the Eve Gate. All the other empires seem to have suffered early hardships based on reliance on the gate while the Matari seem to have been quite comfortable. There is reference to a sacred plain on Matar where the first colony ship landed but nobody confirms where it came from.
I'm pretty sure the Gallente / Caldari had gates around the same time as the Amarr? I thought the Caldari turned on the Gallente and started froming the state around the same time as the Amarr invaded Matar?
As for the Jove, who really knows except the Jove. Perhaps they are aliens who spliced human genes onto themselves? perhaps they were the first here and were less reliant on the gates supply lines when it collapsed. Therefore more Earther tech survived with them.
If anyone can tell me about the Sleepers / Talokan etc that would be great. If not I guess I'l have to go look for myself after the slavers are defeated.
I do hope all these gaps get filled in over time. Who knows, one day we may find our way back to Sol and discover our origins. No idea what state it will be in, maybe just a dead system or a nova's heart. I don't think Sol is anywhere near us though.
>> RECRUITING << |
Dao 2
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.08.02 08:24:00 -
[52]
THAT IS NOT THE SECRET!!!
The real secret is that the joves know how to get back :|
but they won't. Why? they sent a fleet there to check, and only a couple ships made it back :( What did they find? The gate was camped :| bubbles all around and the lag was so bad that almost none of them even loaded. Were stuck here :(
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NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
Also the gal |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.02 08:36:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Skva
Originally by: ArcticFox
If Jovian space indeed does contain the Sol system that means we'll never get to see the Eve gate reopen and an army of angry Terrans come through to go to war with all of Eve. 
Because you really want that to happen, right?
They might drop good loot.
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
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gfldex
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Posted - 2006.08.02 08:51:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
I'm pretty sure the Gallente / Caldari had gates around the same time as the Amarr?
Only 1300 befor the Gallente and the Caldari got the first one. Not more.
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$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.08.02 10:45:00 -
[55]
the theocracy novel available on the chronicle section clearly outlines that even the jove have some old enemies - i shall name them once i get the novel back up - ah to long to load the novel someone will fill u in perhaps they will come in as the jove iprate faction
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fuze
Gallente
Chosen Path
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.08.02 10:52:00 -
[56]
Edited by: fuze on 02/08/2006 10:54:56
Just remember boys and girls that the Jovians are the endbosses of this game.
Unless they come up with monkeys that know level 6.  |
Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.08.02 10:55:00 -
[57]
Originally by: fuze
Just remember boys and girls that the Jovians are the endbosses of this game.
so with their expansion coming in 2007 is that the end game for us
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fuze
Gallente
Chosen Path
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.08.02 10:57:00 -
[58]
By then CCP sells Eve to EA and they transform it into battlestar galactica online.
Vipers 4tw! |
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