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t1 cruz vs t2 frig

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Vorm Staker	Posted - 2006.06.06 15:49:00 - [1] I was planning to go assult frig then eventually hac but ive recently read a few threads suggesting that t1 cruzers outperform assult ships. the problem was they didnt really specify in what. I want to use the assult ship for small gang pvp (all t2 frigs) but if a small group of t1 cruzers would be better then its better i know now b4 i start specing for assult frigs.
Gronsak	Posted - 2006.06.06 15:51:00 - [2] crusiers beat AF in most departments personally id take a thorax over any t2 AF, but ther might be situations where an af can be better, but iom 95% of times crusier > af for pvp -------------------Sig----------------------- welcome to eve, a game for the unemployed, the t2 bpo winners, GTC sellers, macro miners and agent *****s
Greyshadow	Posted - 2006.06.06 15:53:00 - [3] Yeah cruisers usually have a better chance in general fights, but all depends on the pilot, its never a 100% definate. "Now you see me, now you don't!"
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.06 15:54:00 - [4] AFs are actually pretty much an easy target to many t1 cruisers (particularly the AC rupture in my experience)
Vorm Staker	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:08:00 - [5] so outperforms them in everyone way accept for tanking - ie u can take 0.0 bs's in a af but not a t1 cruz?
Lojik	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:12:00 - [6] depends how you have your hac tanked i have seen Hac's survive bs bombardment well just depends on your setup My word is my life, Do not test my word or i will take your life.
Vorm Staker	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:15:00 - [7] Edited by: Vorm Staker on 06/06/2006 16:16:13 Originally by: Lojik depends how you have your hac tanked i have seen Hac's survive bs bombardment well just depends on your setup im curious, at what stage did you confuse a t1 cruz for a hac? hehe nah i assumue u ment t1 cruz can survive a bs engagment with the right tanking skills/setup -edit added "/setup"
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:19:00 - [8] AFs laugh at NPC BSs totally, as do HACs. I've yet to try it in a tech1 cruiser, but i can't see it being easy.
M00dy	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:23:00 - [9] Yeah, T1 cruisers can do 0.0 ratting easy. Just orbit the BS going fast and they will miss you all day. Best done in a Vexor, but can be done with Rupy, don't know about the Rax.
ELECTR0FREAK	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:39:00 - [10] AFs tend to perform a bit better with higher level skills than a Cruiser will, I've found. The unique bonuses they've got, coupled with T2 weaponry and fittings, can make them useful in tactical situations. Generally, if you've got money, an AF is usually more useful in PVP than a cruiser, especially just because it's easier to catch up to a target with. If you don't have ISK to burn though, your best bet is to stay in a Cruiser which is fully insurable. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
PriceCheckMax	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:39:00 - [11] Edited by: PriceCheckMax on 06/06/2006 16:39:20 Originally by: M00dy Yeah, T1 cruisers can do 0.0 ratting easy. Just orbit the BS going fast and they will miss you all day. Best done in a Vexor, but can be done with Rupy, don't know about the Rax. Hmph, no? T1 cruiser can't tank the missles from a triple BS spawn(at least not for a very long time), another problems is with the NPCs who fly away from you and start hitting you. And BS spawns with cruisers are too dangerous too.
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:42:00 - [12] Originally by: HippoKing AFs laugh at NPC BSs totally, as do HACs. I've yet to try it in a tech1 cruiser, but i can't see it being easy. Once again Rupture is quite good at it. Get in close, drones on its escorts and once you're orbiting at 4km, with the 2x NOS running its pretty much over for the NPC BS. Taken a 2x Sansha NPC BS spawn in my Rupture...but it was a little hairy. Signature Remove, not Eve related. -ReverendM ([email protected]
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.06 16:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: HippoKing AFs laugh at NPC BSs totally, as do HACs. I've yet to try it in a tech1 cruiser, but i can't see it being easy. Once again Rupture is quite good at it. Get in close, drones on its escorts and once you're orbiting at 4km, with the 2x NOS running its pretty much over for the NPC BS. Taken a 2x Sansha NPC BS spawn in my Rupture...but it was a little hairy. Still pretty impessive for a t1 cruiser though I mainly kill guristas, and there the rules are slightly different (cruise missiles always hit, and hurt)
Crange	Posted - 2006.06.06 17:30:00 - [14] Ruppy acs use sicks amount of ammo rattin 0.0. Besides keepin ammo supplied the spawns are pretty easy. Err I should say turret spawns are easy the missile ones no fun.
Lojik	Posted - 2006.06.06 19:21:00 - [15] Originally by: Vorm Staker Edited by: Vorm Staker on 06/06/2006 16:16:13 Originally by: Lojik depends how you have your hac tanked i have seen Hac's survive bs bombardment well just depends on your setup im curious, at what stage did you confuse a t1 cruz for a hac? hehe nah i assumue u ment t1 cruz can survive a bs engagment with the right tanking skills/setup -edit added "/setup" yer sry got a bit confused read your post to fast thought u said T2 cruz and also said pvp BS, gotta stop drinking and forum whorin My word is my life, Do not test my word or i will take your life.
Krulla	Posted - 2006.06.06 19:44:00 - [16] Every time you call cruisers "cruz", god kills a kitten. Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs. Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
Xerpex	Posted - 2006.06.06 22:37:00 - [17] Edited by: Xerpex on 06/06/2006 22:38:16 Originally by: HippoKing Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: HippoKing AFs laugh at NPC BSs totally, as do HACs. I've yet to try it in a tech1 cruiser, but i can't see it being easy. Once again Rupture is quite good at it. Get in close, drones on its escorts and once you're orbiting at 4km, with the 2x NOS running its pretty much over for the NPC BS. Taken a 2x Sansha NPC BS spawn in my Rupture...but it was a little hairy. Still pretty impessive for a t1 cruiser though I mainly kill guristas, and there the rules are slightly different (cruise missiles always hit, and hurt) I used to use a plated (1600mm) vexor to hunt angels (i.e. explosive torpedo shooting bs, worst thing for an armour tanker). It worked pretty well, I could take most spawns without warping out. Took a bit to kill the bigger ones though (doesn't help I only got 400k sp's in drones). BS hunting can be done without too much trouble in some cruisers. edit: That particular vexor succumbed to 6 angel battlecruisers when I was too busy typing to warp out.
xenodia	Posted - 2006.06.06 22:54:00 - [18] Originally by: Vorm Staker I was planning to go assult frig then eventually hac but ive recently read a few threads suggesting that t1 cruzers outperform assult ships. the problem was they didnt really specify in what. I want to use the assult ship for small gang pvp (all t2 frigs) but if a small group of t1 cruzers would be better then its better i know now b4 i start specing for assult frigs. If you have good skills, an AF is better. If you dont have really good skills, you are better off hopping in a T1 cruiser. Its the old axiom... theres more to piloting a ship than simply possessing the ability to undock in it. Ive seen so many noobs start up and just take a direct training path to the skills that let them fly an assault frig, and then get wtfpwned whenever they try to engage someone. I think thats where this impression that T1 cruiser > t2 frig comes from. Ultimately, its going to boil down to relative skills, and whos ship is better in the game of setup rock-paper-scissors. Ive personally taken out battlecruisers in an assault frig 1 on 1, and ive been victorious in 1 vs 2 fights against 2 t1 cruisers, and once even against 2 less experienced pilots in their own assault frigs (My harpy vs their wolf and enyo). Course ive also been popped 1 vs 1 by someone in a vexor I had no business losing to when I made an idiot mistake and let them get in NOS range. Could a T1 cruiser beat an AF if it was specifically set up to do so, and the AF pilot played into the cruiser pilots hands ? Sure. But in a straight up pvp fight between 2 skilled pilots that didnt know what they were fighting coming into the fight... Id give the edge to the AF pilot.
Harper04	Posted - 2006.06.07 00:59:00 - [19] Originally by: xenodia Originally by: Vorm Staker I was planning to go assult frig then eventually hac but ive recently read a few threads suggesting that t1 cruzers outperform assult ships. the problem was they didnt really specify in what. I want to use the assult ship for small gang pvp (all t2 frigs) but if a small group of t1 cruzers would be better then its better i know now b4 i start specing for assult frigs. If you have good skills, an AF is better. If you dont have really good skills, you are better off hopping in a T1 cruiser. Its the old axiom... theres more to piloting a ship than simply possessing the ability to undock in it. Ive seen so many noobs start up and just take a direct training path to the skills that let them fly an assault frig, and then get wtfpwned whenever they try to engage someone. I think thats where this impression that T1 cruiser > t2 frig comes from. Ultimately, its going to boil down to relative skills, and whos ship is better in the game of setup rock-paper-scissors. Ive personally taken out battlecruisers in an assault frig 1 on 1, and ive been victorious in 1 vs 2 fights against 2 t1 cruisers, and once even against 2 less experienced pilots in their own assault frigs (My harpy vs their wolf and enyo). Course ive also been popped 1 vs 1 by someone in a vexor I had no business losing to when I made an idiot mistake and let them get in NOS range. Could a T1 cruiser beat an AF if it was specifically set up to do so, and the AF pilot played into the cruiser pilots hands ? Sure. But in a straight up pvp fight between 2 skilled pilots that didnt know what they were fighting coming into the fight... Id give the edge to the AF pilot. Doubtful, at least not against a thorax, rupture, bb, celestis, vexor...also 5 t2 hammies = dead af For some odd reason now t2 hammies are going for a mil+ each though
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.06.07 01:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Vorm Staker so outperforms them in everyone way accept for tanking - ie u can take 0.0 bs's in a af but not a t1 cruz? You can take 0.0 bses in a cruiser. Using t2 mods you can get very nice resists on a Moa, and 5k+ shields. Throw on 4 200 or 250s and 2 heavies and your DPs (suing AM and whatever missiles work best) is usually enough. Caracal with kin missiles can out damage an AF pretty well, and from 5-10x the range.
Copine Callmeknau	Posted - 2006.06.07 01:23:00 - [21] I'd always take my AC Ruppie over an AF. ------- With five million sheep in this army I seem to be the only one fit to command
Leon 026	Posted - 2006.06.07 01:24:00 - [22] Most cruisers with a microwarpdrive, nos and web will kill an AF. Usually, unless the AF pilots is extraordinarily skilled and/or has a nos of his own. ------------------------------- [20:05:51] Cyshade > Leon 026, making Crow BPO owners trillionaires since 29.08.2005
Lienzo	Posted - 2006.06.07 02:27:00 - [23] List of advantages of cruiser: 1)Can fit a larger class nos. Non-intensive skillwise. 2)Bigger capacitor and more slots= wider tactical selections. 3)Often more drones. 4)AFs don't outrun missiles explosion factors. 5)Cruisers are usually as fast or faster* than AFs. 6)All AFs are severely cap dependent, even minmatar. *A Jaguar with rails might be a pretty good cruiser killer if it can just stay out of web range. Pull wide on an MWDing Thorax and then close you just might get past his turn radius. His drones and falloff is still gonna make for some pain depending on his fit and the characteristics of your tank. List of points where AFs and Cruisers are similar: 1)Similar range often. 2)Both can power 20km scram. Ship classes are really understood in their proper context when you understand them in small groups rather than by 1v1 comparisons. That's where the better tracking/range of an AF range weapon shows up in somewhat closer overlapping optimal bubbles. Assault Missile Launcher Improvement
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.07 06:50:00 - [24] Edited by: HippoKing on 07/06/2006 06:51:52 Originally by: xenodia Ive personally taken out battlecruisers in an assault frig 1 on 1, and ive been victorious in 1 vs 2 fights against 2 t1 cruisers, and once even against 2 less experienced pilots in their own assault frigs (My harpy vs their wolf and enyo). Course ive also been popped 1 vs 1 by someone in a vexor I had no business losing to when I made an idiot mistake and let them get in NOS range. Could a T1 cruiser beat an AF if it was specifically set up to do so, and the AF pilot played into the cruiser pilots hands ? Sure. But in a straight up pvp fight between 2 skilled pilots that didnt know what they were fighting coming into the fight... Id give the edge to the AF pilot. I think you are wrong here. My rupture has eaten every AF that has come its way, and it only has t1 guns. I've been hurt by an AF once, an ishkur with t2 blasters and drones shot the hell out of me once: my cap was failing and I was at 20% armor when he died. These were all before the sig changes. The rupture with a MWD is faster than pretty much all AF setups, and if it gets into web/nos range, you have one dead AF. Vexor is even more fatal to them. Thorax would find it easy enough in a general setup. Other t1 cruisers would probably still be able to kill them in a general setup.
Knoppaz	Posted - 2006.06.07 07:38:00 - [25] Nos is no problem for a passive tanked Jag.. web is another story tho.
Daos Leghki	Posted - 2006.06.07 07:38:00 - [26] An AF is likely to beat a long-range setup on a cruise, but then again, a T1 frig will too. AFs could prolly be used to take out BS using frig tactics, since it'd be hard to hit them. Don't know why you wouldn't use interceptors instead though. I just got a wolf and jag, so I don't know too much about them, but they seem not much better than my Omen and Rupture. The nice thing is that I'm ratting in Blood space, and they take almost no damage there Honestly, I think it's a class of ships that have a badly defined role. Currently, everything they can do, interceptors or cruisers can do better.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.07 07:45:00 - [27] Any AF can easily kill T1 missile cruisers from experience. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire EvE is ecstatically malevolent.
Ciaphas Khaine	Posted - 2006.06.07 07:51:00 - [28] its all about the setups. thing is, if they web/nos you, then you are dead. simple as that. Im a big fan of MWD on AF's as it allows you to stay outa cruiser's way IN THE FAR FLUNG FUTURE OF EVE THERE IS ONLY.... WARRRR
Quebber	Posted - 2006.06.07 07:58:00 - [29] cough retribution cough cough
Jogyn	Posted - 2006.06.07 08:24:00 - [30] Lets say that an af cost 20m + 15m in fittings. If you spend 35m on a cruiser, it will pwn it so hard. Rupture, stabber, moa, thorax and mallers will eat any af if they go tackler setup. Which they usually do if they solo. In gangs I also prefer cruisers, since they can take more damage and have higher dps (if you use t2, ofc). The only advantage for af's are that they can get through 0.0 gate camps and that some people might mistake it for a t1 frig.

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