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Phersephone
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Posted - 2003.09.25 10:09:00 -
[1]
I'm sure i'm not alone in saying that lastnight (24/9/03) the server was lagged to hell and back for several hours. I just thought i would share my experiance of the GM's Lastnight
I desided to join the "Help" channel to see what was up, on joining there was approx 150 people in the channel most of who where complaining of the lag or being stuck. Most players agreed that the server needed another kick :( Eventually a GM joined the channel so see a flood of plz reboot server messages. His responce???..."There will be no reboot and i will gag anyone asking for one!"
We where then told that this is a help channel and it was not appropriate to ask for this. Considering that it was taking people anywhere from 2 minutes to 20 minutes to jump between systems or dock at a station, not to mention the people stuck in systems, dont you consider this needing help?
has anyone else recieved this type of treatment from GM's? If so then i think CCP needs to look at who is getting selected as a GM and look at how much training they are getting.
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Noobious
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Posted - 2003.09.25 10:59:00 -
[2]
Yeah I've gotta be honest mate some of their support staff are usless GM White for example needs some serious training with how to deal with customers, last time I spoke to him all I got was attitude and a total lack of respect (complained to CCP they "noted" my complaint), despite the fact I was being polite.
I can however see why they get frustrated being only human having to listen to 12 year olds swear at them day in day out at the slighest problem, BUT thats what they get paid for so I have no sympathy for them, if they dont like it they should get another job.
My two pence
Noobious
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NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:29:00 -
[3]
Ill have to admit, I could not do there job
Must be hell at times, looking at the calber of some of the posts on the forums I can see why a GM may go insane at times, I know its there job, but dealing with members of the public can push even the most stable of people totaly nuts.
I can also see that thay need to be put on a valium drip to calm them down at times, could be a tax free perk 
==================================================
I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Rancid Mare on 25/09/2003 11:50:59
no one forced anyone to take the job of a GM.
if they dont like the hassle let them get a new job.
i understand bee keeping is a tad relaxing.
has there been any news on the current lag-a-thon situation ?
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:50:00 -
[5]
This is a joke. Help channel was clogged with 150 people spamming **** like:
> REBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT PLLLLLLLLLZ
> REBOOT NOW NOW REBOOT NOW NOW NOW
When there was a Polaris member there specifically telling the channel repeatedly that NOBODY in the Help channel has the power to reboot the servers, or the authority to contact anyone to request a reboot.
Did this stop the 100 jackasses from flooding the channel with their requests? No, of course not. It just got worse.
I would have started gagging people too. End of story.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:53:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
NOBODY in the Help channel has the power to reboot the servers, or the authority to contact anyone to request a reboot.
so what can people in the help channel actualy do then ?
laugh in yer face as your latest agent missions times out yet again ?
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
sutty
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:54:00 -
[7]
yes they do know the people to make reboot the server. they all sit on a irc chan together.
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Gigi Ana
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:37:00 -
[8]
Quote:
I desided to join the "Help" channel to see what was up, on joining there was approx 150 people in the channel most of who where complaining of the lag or being stuck. Most players agreed that the server needed another kick :( Eventually a GM joined the channel so see a flood of plz reboot server messages. His responce???..."There will be no reboot and i will gag anyone asking for one!"
We where then told that this is a help channel and it was not appropriate to ask for this.
Excellent! If they follow through with this the Help channel will become useful again.
People whining "I'm stuck" and "reboot" should be gagged. That isn't what the channel is for and I think anybody who isn't a new player should know that by now. "Stucks" should be petitioned, and players have no clue when a reboot should happen so they shouldn't be screaming for it ...
The help channel is for question-and-answer on things a player doesn't know how to handle ... not for rants, complaints, and suggestions on how a player thinks the game should be run. Sometimes it is hard to tell that though.
~Gigi~ |
Phersephone
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:38:00 -
[9]
Fair enought there where a few people posting messages like "if your laggy and you know it clap your hands" then several people responded with "Clap...Clap.."
When the GM's said they could not reboot the servers they where asked "How do we contact someone who can? " reply "You cant." so my question is now this... If you cant contact anyone who can perform a reboot, how did you know the techie guys where looking at it and how did you know the server would be rebooted in 20 minutes? There Must be someway that the GM team can communicate with the Dev's/ Techies/ Zoo keeper or whoever feeds the monkeys to contact each other to pass this information. Imho 90% of this games problems would be fixed if they just listend to who was actually online playing it instead of making unnecessary changes to functions like the eve-mail inbox that wasn't even mentioned in the patch notes!!
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Pann
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:44:00 -
[10]
Having braved the trenches of Help Channel myself, I can see both sides of the coin here. As a player, you go into the channel hoping for a quick answer to a problem you're having. As a customer support representative (be it GM or Polaris) you go in with the hopes you can answer those questions. It is often difficult for either side to achieve their goals because of things like:
A. The Jerk factor - there are always some folks in there who are doing their dead-level best to be disruptive jerks. They insult, they spam and they interrupt.
B. Impatience - people want an answer and they want it *now* and will not wait while the others who were there first are assisted.
C. Who's Who confusion - Many players are still confused by the colored text. Red = GM's, blue = devs, green & light blue = Polaris volunteers. Just because someone has colored text doesn't mean they have god-like powers and can instantly reset things to your specifications. Help Channel is a place where you can go for answers to questions. For larger issues - like lost items or to report harassment - players must file petitions.
I have spent countless hours in Help Channel, both with my flagged characters and incognito, and there has not been a single time I was there that I did not witness inappropriate behavior from the players toward those who were trying to assist them. I was not there last night, but based on past experiences, I can pretty well gauge what happened and why the threat was made to gag people spamming for a reset. I've had to say that myself a few times.
The frequent argument is "I am paying for this subscription and I am entitled to service." True, you are. But you are not paying for the privilege to insult the game masters and Polaris volunteers, spam the ingame channels or act like a spoiled brat. No retailer would allow you to act like that in his store. No restaurant manager would permit you to cuss and spit on his waiters. Please stop confusing the two.
Eve Community Manager
[email protected]
CCP |
Commander Jones
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:48:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Commander Jones on 25/09/2003 12:56:28
The biggest problem with the GM situation is the fact that they're volunteers and not paid staff and as such have no fear of being sacked.
The reply I get most often when complaining about server conditions is: " Look, there's nothing we GMs can do about it so leave it alone."
Whatever happened to friendliness to paying customers?
I've worked in tech support for years in RL before I started up on my own business, and that's pretty much the kind of answer every boss I've ever had would sack me for. I say CCP needs to get a proper support staff, and better lines of comunication with the customers (how come there's no support number we can call?).Some may even say that the help channel is not for that kind of complaint, but i don't see any other direct line of comunication with CCP representatives (sorry, but petitions just take too long to be answered in general). Such behaviour might be fine (even necessary)in Beta, but last time I checked my credit card invoices, we weren't in Beta anymore... Or are we?
And don't tell me they can't pay for it because the playerbase on this game is huge and the CD was very expensive.
just my 2 isk
"You end up paying good money for the sort of treatment you ancestors spent their short, brutal lives trying to avoid. That's progress"
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sutty
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:53:00 -
[12]
GM's are payed. the problem is there lack of respect for the customers, you know when people pay for somthing they expect it to work 99% of the time not 5%. so peoples anger is understandable.
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Commander Jones
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:59:00 -
[13]
Quote:
GM's are payed.
Fair enough, my bad for not being well informed, but if they're paid that makes their general disregard for the opinion of their customers even worse in my opinion.
"You end up paying good money for the sort of treatment you ancestors spent their short, brutal lives trying to avoid. That's progress"
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Zodiac Laserstorm
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:04:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Zodiac Laserstorm on 25/09/2003 13:06:42
Quote:
The biggest problem with the GM situation is the fact that they're volunteers and not paid staff and as such have no fear of being sacked.
Sire, still another misunderstanding. Game Masters, if you speak of the big customer support here, are paid and under contract. They are the ones answering to your "lost my stuff" petition, the "this guy scammed me" one and to the "all my skills reset to 0, what gives??!!1" ones. 
Polaris are the ones in the help channel answering "Why won't my wallet open" and "how come I can't have NPC crew on my ship??". They are volunteers. And they, if I remember correctly, can lose their status as well.
*Edit: oops, yes, here: not paid, but can get removed of their corp or what it is they are in.
Dev's (Developers) code the game, some fix bugs, other code new things to implement into the game. (Yes, the ones that changed the prefs.ini so that each time I leave the game now I need to click on "are you sure???"... )
Then there is the Server Technichans, that are someone else still, and I would guess they hang out not in iceland, but wherever the servers are, getting called to work at night on their mobile when the servers crash by someone.
.. hm, what?
What are you staring at me? 
Hey, don't ask me who "someone" is, I only know if the GMs say they aren't and Polaris say they aren't, that that's all I know about it. Unlike many here, I'm not a programmer or whatever who can say "I know how this works and how ccp must fix this!!" 
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Commander Jones
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:09:00 -
[15]
Quote:
[Sire, still another misunderstanding. Game Masters, if you speak of the big customer support here, are paid and under contract. They are the ones answering to your "lost my stuff" petition, the "this guy scammed me" one and to the "all my skills reset to 0, what gives??!!1" ones.
Dear sir,
I refer you to the post just above yours
"You end up paying good money for the sort of treatment you ancestors spent their short, brutal lives trying to avoid. That's progress"
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Phersephone
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:11:00 -
[16]
Pann I agree with what your saying but the fact still remains that as Soon as the people turned up(think they where polaris) he went on the war path with saying they where going to ban people. Also it turns out that everyone requesting the reboot was right because what happend.... they rebooted the server, after that everything was fine.
The point i'm really trying to make is that there is not a mechanism in place for players request a server reboot. I can see people saying that they will not reboot if only a few people are having problems.. fine, i wouldn't either. but if 50% of the currently active players are experiencing problems so bad that it effects gameplay then i think it should be rebooted and i dont think i'm alone in this.
If the Polaris bods cant do anything in the help channel then maybe you should setup a channel where people could ask this type of question without fear of being banded or censored.
ps. i agree there is no need for the bad language thou.
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GM Grimmi
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:30:00 -
[17]
Hi everyone,
Just a quick comment on the server reboot issue; the decision to reboot the server is not based on how many requests there are in the HC. When a stuck crisis arises we GMs closely monitor the situation and act according to preset rules and procedures set up to deal with such situations.
Thank you.
GM Grimmi
Senior Game Master
EVE CSS |
brainiac 13
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:43:00 -
[18]
I don't know I can see both sides arguments as regards the help channell. I think people in this tread have mentioned 12 year old brats insulting polaris in the channell ect. I don't think I have met anyone in this game yet that is under 18.
I think my greatest frustration is the automated polaris bots in the channell, you know the ones that say clear your cache and file a petition. I know they are not bots but boy does it feel like it.
Another point I have noticed is I am living in gmt+1 and there are never polaris peeps or GMs in the help channell during the day where I am. Is a prerequisit that you have to live stateside or something to be in polaris or a GM?
And yes I am a person who has got frustrated in the help channell at polaris because after been stuck 3 days in a row someone told me to file a petition!!! again. Since the last patch eve has nearly turned into a text only roleplaying game because it seems people spend more time typing petitions ect.
I think someone in CCP should look at the overall forum treads and take a trip to ebay and realise there Game is dying pure and simple there is less players.
This Game in some ways reminds me of the card game Magic the Gathering when it was first brought out it was cool fun and new. Then it started to get exspansions (patchs) new features to try and balance the game because most of the people who played it from the beginning had such a advantage over the people who joined later and the only way to even that up was to go and buy and the powerfull cards on ebay. Same thing is happening here the only way for players to get to the same level as some of the people that started day 1 is to buy the stuff on Ebay. Even wizards took out the only risk in magic which was ante the only thing that made it interesting and CCP are near enough taking out pirates in eve.
Don't get me wrong here I love this game it is the first online game I have ever played and is about the only game to consume so much of my time some people think I'm mad.
To sum up the bugs are getting out of control the lag makes the game feel like it is turn based. The polaris members in the help channell do and say the things most people working for tech support companies get fired for on a weekly basis.
I don't know what people think but I do know if CCP or the guys who host CCPs servers phoned up HP or whatever company the servers are supplied by and the agent on the other end told them to shut-up and stop complianing were doing our best. You can be sure than person would be in some deep ****.
I think a lesson could be learned by the polaris guys and GM's and that is those little funny names in the help channell are actually people who have paid for a service and are probably paying the GM's wages.
I know I was given out to by a polaris teem lead in the help channell because I was asking questions and what a surprise I was been ignored by polaris even though I was been polite after 10 mins or so I lost the rag and said
" I know carlsberg don't have a customer service department but thats because they supply a quality product CCP are just taking the **** with having none "
What a surprise I got a reply to that from a polaris team lead....I never got a reply to I'm stuck help?, What is causing all this lag?
No I get a reply by some guy sitting there watching the text go by and peoples genuine questions and him not bothering his ass to answer but one smart comment and there he is.
Before anyone says he might have just logged on he had not he had posted some other comments in the channell as well mostly stuff like " thats enough of that " to various players that were calling for reboot.
Well sorry about the long page I am a bit annoyed and to CCP maybe you should think about putting the customer back in CUSTOMER SERVICE and cut this treating us all like children routine.
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:45:00 -
[19]
Funny, a lot of people seem willing to complain about Polaris but they don't seem too keen on signing up for the team. Hrmm.
*Signed up himself, was turned down though...prolly due to being sixteen. bleh*
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Phersephone
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:03:00 -
[20]
I'll sign up for polaris if thats whats required.
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Commander Jones
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:13:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Funny, a lot of people seem willing to complain about Polaris but they don't seem too keen on signing up for the team. Hrmm.
Why should one sign up to help support a game one is paying good money for? Eve to me is a game, not work.
"You end up paying good money for the sort of treatment you ancestors spent their short, brutal lives trying to avoid. That's progress"
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:16:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Why should one sign up to help support a game one is paying good money for? Eve to me is a game, not work.
Haha. That's exactly the point. Polaris members are willing to devote their own time and energy to supporting a game they pay to play, and what do they get in returned? Spammed, flammed, accused of cheating, made fun of, pushed around, people making demands, acting like children, etc., etc.
I would have a gag quota if I was Polaris, at least 10 a day.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Phersephone
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:18:00 -
[23]
you shouldn't see eve as work. Thats why its a volunteer program. If you join the help channel most of the time its not even the polaris bods that are helping its just you average joe blogs telling people how to change settings etc.
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Gigi Ana
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:24:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Quote:
Why should one sign up to help support a game one is paying good money for? Eve to me is a game, not work.
Haha. That's exactly the point. Polaris members are willing to devote their own time and energy to supporting a game they pay to play, and what do they get in returned? Spammed, flammed, accused of cheating, made fun of, pushed around, people making demands, acting like children, etc., etc.
I would have a gag quota if I was Polaris, at least 10 a day.
Dang, dang, dang - somebody call up the wire services - it's a miracle - Veruna and I agree on something completely!
~Gigi~ |
Commander Jones
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:40:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Quote:
Why should one sign up to help support a game one is paying good money for? Eve to me is a game, not work.
Haha. That's exactly the point. Polaris members are willing to devote their own time and energy to supporting a game they pay to play, and what do they get in returned? Spammed, flammed, accused of cheating, made fun of, pushed around, people making demands, acting like children, etc., etc.
I would have a gag quota if I was Polaris, at least 10 a day.
That's fair enough, and I do apreciate the fact that they're spending their time doing such work, but it still makes no difference to the original point. And another thing... although Polaris might be volunteers but they have a tech support job to do in Eve, and dealing with complaints just goes with the territory. If they can't deal with that I'd sugest they just stick to playing the game. If the CTDs will let them
"You end up paying good money for the sort of treatment you ancestors spent their short, brutal lives trying to avoid. That's progress"
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Commander Jones
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:44:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Commander Jones on 25/09/2003 14:46:02
again I try to bring to your attention that the help channel is pretty much the only direct means of comunication with support staff. I'd be more than happy to keep my complaints off game if I could...In fact I'd rather not complain at all, but it's not like we're not being cheated out of our playing pleasure by CTDs, blackholes and the such.
"You end up paying good money for the sort of treatment you ancestors spent their short, brutal lives trying to avoid. That's progress"
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Zodiac Laserstorm
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:58:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Edited by: Commander Jones on 25/09/2003 14:46:02
again I try to bring to your attention that the help channel is pretty much the only direct means of comunication with support staff.
Am I starting to bore you repeating this? I don't care 
I'm getting spoiled by the EVE CS, especially the Help channel. Indeed, it IS a place to interact with the customer support, even if only limited. Many other games should try a bite of that.
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LittleFu
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Posted - 2003.09.25 15:04:00 -
[28]
O-Ton from a Polaris Guy yesterday evening:
Help Channel:
"There is noone here who could do a server restart. And those who can dont come in here"
I mean .. "Helloooo!???"
What are we?! A bunch of kiddies
asking to play with mom?
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Gigi Ana
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Posted - 2003.09.25 15:06:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Edited by: Commander Jones on 25/09/2003 14:46:02
again I try to bring to your attention that the help channel is pretty much the only direct means of comunication with support staff. I'd be more than happy to keep my complaints off game if I could...In fact I'd rather not complain at all, but it's not like we're not being cheated out of our playing pleasure by CTDs, blackholes and the such.
Except that it isn't the only means, it (usually) isn't even a means of communicating with support staff AT ALL.
If you complain in the help channel, your complaint will likely never be heard by support staff. If there is a Polaris person present, they may remember to forward your complaint on, they may not, but it will be that person's interpretation of your complaint.
If you want a support person to hear your complaint ... file an "other" petition (or a bug/exploit report if that is more appropriate). Then your complaint will survive intact and be read by a GM.
~Gigi~ |
Deadmetal
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Posted - 2003.09.25 15:13:00 -
[30]
I'll back up Pann on this one... the help channel can be a great place to get "help" suggestions.. tips etc.. for tech issues you do have to file a petition. BUT having said that the help channel should also provide the player base with a quick update method on current issues.
As to the GM issue? eh.. some are good.. some appear to have gotten their customer service skills from sitting in an Icelandic Sweat Lodge.. flagellating one another with pine boughs.
NOW again having said THAT.. we as the players should not abuse the Online support.. most will try to help.. hamstrung though they are by CCP regs. My main beef is with these regs.. no restoration of lost items due to CTD.. continual griefing issues etc. The game is great but as many have pointed out.. it's becoming more like work to play... a game is just that a GAME. ment for enjoyment not continual frustration. CCP could address this issue fairly quickly if they wished... well that's my 2 cents worth...
"Human Nature - If someone put a big red button in a remote mountain cave with a sign on it 'End of the world button!! Do not push!!.. the paint wouldn't have a chance to dry." |
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