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Caletha
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Posted - 2006.06.08 13:15:00 -
[1]
Before you all start, what is he mad! I'd like to explain a little.
First I'd like to say that Eve is one of the few (only?) MMO's where playing longer online does not have a direct effect on your characters abilities. Sure you can afford better ships, but you can still only use the same stuff someone else that started playing eve the same time as you (and took the same path). Even if you play 10+ hours, and that person only plays 1 hour.
Playing longer periods per day / week / month etc does not directly help advance your character a whole lot. Sure I fly a well equipt battleship, but some of my friends that play a lot less do the same (and they started playing eve at the same time as me).
What I propose is the ability to buy skillpoints. In some degree this is already in the game (and sanctioned by CCP) in the form of buying characters. This has some drawbacks as when you buy a character, your not only buying skillpoints, but also a specific path that person took. Your also buying that person's name and reputation (which isnt always a good thing).
I'd like to take this a step further and allow the purchase of skillpoints. It shouldnt be cheap. If you look at the character auctions, you'll see something in the range of 300m for 3m skillpoint character. Which results in 100isk per skillpoint. However since this is tailor made for your character, I'd say go more expensive and go for 1000isk per skillpoint (e.g. 3b to get a 3m character).
The impact of this would have wouldnt be that huge on high ranked skills and it wouldnt be any bigger then the sale of characters for isk. However this would give people (like me) a reason to keep making isk, because at this point I've got everything I need and feel I've lost any reason (at this time) to make isk (as I cant use any other ship-type for at least 2 months and I've got enough isk to replace my PvP ships for a while).
I'm sure this will start a flame, so go ahead :) I just had to get this off my chest.
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Auren I'del
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Posted - 2006.06.08 13:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Auren I''del on 08/06/2006 13:25:29
So that everyone with a lot of real cash can by all the isk they want on ebay and make the uber char?
this would in my opininon ruin the game completely
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Caletha
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Posted - 2006.06.08 13:29:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Auren I'del
Edited by: Auren I''del on 08/06/2006 13:25:29
So that everyone with a lot of real cash can by all the isk they want on ebay and make the uber char?
this would in my opininon ruin the game completely
They can already buy a 10m-20m sp character. And if you'd translate this (1000isk per sp) into real life money with current ebay / timecode prices, a 3m character would cost you 400 euro. Currently a 10m sp character goes for that price.
So I'm sorry that response isnt valid as long as the amount of isk you get for a 40-euro card is around 270m. (270m would give you 270k sp's, thats a fat increase ^^)
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Zoltaris
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Posted - 2006.06.08 14:38:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Zoltaris on 08/06/2006 14:39:16
There is already a way to buy SP if i may say so, it's by buying implants, those that do it get SP faster than those that don't, so money gave them more SP, and later in the game, attibute boosters will be introduced, that will further allow to buy SP, as buying attribute boosters will allow to increase an attribute by up to 5 pts for up to 8 hours if you increase the biology skill to lvl 5
So, someone rich enough will be able to constantly buy attribute boosters and get SP much faster that those that can't buy or don't want to buy such boosters
If it was possible to just convert isk for SP, we would see people selling tons of game cards to get loads of isk and they would then make char with over 100m SP, which would totally unbalance the game
No, really, the game is fine as it is, and i'm all for implants, attribute boosters and DNA mutators (which will allow to transfer an attibute point from one attribute to another one), but that's it! just a form of limited ways of increasing SP faster
BTW, yeah, its possible to buy chars with isk, but these chars still had to be trained in a regular way, as anyone else
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> Order Falcon & Pilgrim |
Martosh Toma
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Posted - 2006.06.08 14:45:00 -
[5]
The ability to buy skillpoints is already in the game in a way. You can buy implants that increase your attributes and therefore your learning speed.
Advantages i see in this is that a nobody can suddenly start with a highskill char. time in the game is still an issue and the invested assets can be destroyed.
Actually buying skillpoints in a bad thing in my opinion especially considering all those time card iskies. people that are new in the game need time to understand it. people setting up new alts know what to do already. that is their advantage.
I would hate to face a 1 month old and suddenly discover he bought himself bs at 5. Age is one of the few estimates of fighting strength we have.
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Harum Skarum
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Posted - 2006.06.08 14:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Auren I'del
Edited by: Auren I''del on 08/06/2006 13:25:29
So that everyone with a lot of real cash can by all the isk they want on ebay and make the uber char?
this would in my opininon ruin the game completely
These people already can buy GTCs for real money, sell them for isk and buy 40 mil sp chars.
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Zoltaris
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Posted - 2006.06.08 14:55:00 -
[7]
The supply of 40m SP is quite limited, and they can't get them just as they would like to have them, they have to chose what is closest to their need within the few chars with that many SP that are available
And still, they can't just come with a char with over 60m SP all out of nowhere...
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> Order Falcon & Pilgrim |
Caletha
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Posted - 2006.06.08 15:24:00 -
[8]
Yea but lets get real, the amount of isk needed to get a 10m sp character is insane (10b). Would anyone be silly enough to spend this much? If thats not enough, make it 5000 isk per skillpoint, meaning a 10m sp character would be 50b.
If you'd translate that with current exchange rates into 'real' money, then your looking at thousands of euro's / dollars. No one will ever spend that much on a character when they can get a 10-20m character for 2b-4b (heck a 41m char was just auctioned for 9.5b, which translated into 'real' money is still a lot but shy from the 41-200b that I suggest).
If anything, because its more expensive then buying a character, I think very few would use this ability to gain anything above 1m sp (which would be 1-5b isk). I'd suggest before making a 'but people will buy isk to skill their character' remark that you check the exchange rates and then do the math.
Yes people can advance their characters using isk, its the whole point of the idea. The isk for time-card issue doesnt really play a role unless someone puts in an extraordenary amount of (real) money, which really wont happen if a existing characters are sold for 10-50 times cheaper.
Another possible addition to this idea would be to only allow people to buy 50% of their SP's, and as such still require time to skill up (and not get an insta-..m sp character) while still helping to reward people that play the game more then people that dont.
I like the attribute enhancers for x hours, its a step forward but I'd like to see more abilities to help your character improve if you play more.
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Shinca
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Posted - 2006.06.08 15:36:00 -
[9]
Price for chars used to be around 100 mil ISK for 1 mil SP... It went up a bit lately (well almost to 200 mil) but is still nowhere near 1 bil ISK for 1 mil SP.
clones are people two
Slovenian EVE forum |
Ethinarg
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Posted - 2006.06.08 15:50:00 -
[10]
In addition to the isk cost to buy the sp, have a "true" play time factored into it. "true" meaning not just hanging out in a station or in dead space for 23h a day. For example you can only buy 1000 sp for ever 1 hour of "true" play time.
just my two cents
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Matrim Acoma
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Posted - 2006.06.08 18:25:00 -
[11]
I think it is the premise that is flawed. It is the very nature of progressing while off-line that makes this game so attractive to alot of people.
I have to work 60 hr weeks, plus spend time w/ the family. That doesn't leave alot of time for gaming, mostly when I travel. So, the way EVE is setup, it allows my character to continue to grow. This is why I don't play any other MMORPGs, while I used to be a fanatic Mudder back when I had the time. This game appeals to the market for adults who like to game with limited time availability, which is why the average age of an EVE player is 27.
By not playing as many hours, I don't earn the ISKies as fast, my standings are much lower, I don't have as many LP, and can't afford the nice expensive Gistii stuff. That is the benefit you get from playing all the time, plus the enjoyment of it.
Besides, CCP makes money on monthly memberships, not based on hours played. Also, the more people playing actively means the more load on the system, hardware resources required, etc.
It is not in their best interest to have you playing massive hours for the sake of being online. So don't look for them to go out of their way to reward behavior that runs counter to their bottom line.
In fact, I would propose that you train skills faster while off-line, just an extra 2-3 SP/min. After all, when you are on-line, your character is focused on many other things than the skill they are training. But when you are off-line, they can focus solely on the skill they are training.
- Matrim
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Krb686
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Posted - 2006.06.08 19:03:00 -
[12]
Well instead of buying ISK so that you can get your ships faster, to benefit those who play the game much more they could just add some kind of system where doing something in a skill would give you a small amount of skillpoints. These skillpoints could either go onto the skill that you were "training" (like if yoru mining, they go onto mining skill) or they could go into a "pool" where you can choose where to put the skillpoints.
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Kari Kayira
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Posted - 2006.06.08 20:05:00 -
[13]
I agree with those who have said that EVE's skills over time, not skills over time played make it unique and as such, attractive. I don't feel any change to that is necessary, or indeed desirable. Whether it be by buying skills or by gaining skills from action.
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Hesprax
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Posted - 2006.06.08 20:35:00 -
[14]
You'd totally screw up the game by doing this, it has no role play value what so ever, it's just impatient isk grinders trying to make the game something it isn't. Don't think for a minute that there aren't people with enough isk to buy sp's at these fantastically high prices, the Cap Recharger II BPO holders, zealot, vagabond BPO holders etc.
And for the record I think being able to buy and sell game time cards for isk is a really, really bad idea as well. However that's all been given the green light now so there isn't much that can be done unless CCP realise it's bad for the game. Any translation of in game money into real money and vice versa is bad, it's been the ruin of several games to date. And it doesn't take Einstein to figure out that GTC sellers would be buying up the skill-points as fast as they could rake in the isk.
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Brisi
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Posted - 2006.06.08 21:30:00 -
[15]
I thought up a very long and complicated answer, but what it eventually boils down to is this:
"No."
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Caletha
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Posted - 2006.06.08 23:51:00 -
[16]
Pretty much most of the answers I expected, still had to express my idea 
I fully understand why people like the idea of the offline skilling, and heck even I like it. But having almost no way to increase the speed at which you gain skillpoints seems a bit weird to me. I guess I'm too used to games where you can 'grind' experience, but in a roleplay way that does fit better into the system then gaining skillpoints while sleeping.
My isk to sp idea basicly got born from the idea that all professions make isk. And as such all professions would be able to skill faster if they earn more isk (by playing more). Its also a process which is hard to 'automate'.
I still feel strongly that if you play more then someone else, this should be seen in more then just better items. If I play less I expect to progress slower through a game, if I play more I expect to progress faster. But Eve (currently) isnt like that, we all progress through the game at the same pace. This means a player that started 7 months earlier will always have a 7 month advantage over me, even if that player only logs in once a week to change his skill.
Ohwell, I think I'll crawl back in my hole.
And as for the person saying "no", if you dont have anything inteligent to add to a conversation, stay out of it. This is a discussion forum, and "no" isnt even a sentence.
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Tripoli
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Posted - 2006.06.09 04:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Caletha
Buying skillpoints
No. Just no.
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283 of 312 skills trained. |
Vardemis
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Posted - 2006.06.09 04:31:00 -
[18]
It would ruin the game. |
Dr Caymus
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Posted - 2006.06.09 04:51:00 -
[19]
Hmmm...could I buy a complete set of Level 5 Gunnery skills? Maybe add the Level 5 Gallente Spaceship Command package?
Nah...not a good idea. One of the main points of the skill system is to create some degree of balance between the casual player and the hard-core power gamer. The power gamer still maintains an advantage in building game wealth and hands-on experience faster.
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Pyrok
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Posted - 2006.06.09 06:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Caletha
I still feel strongly that if you play more then someone else, this should be seen in more then just better items. If I play less I expect to progress slower through a game, if I play more I expect to progress faster. But Eve (currently) isnt like that, we all progress through the game at the same pace. This means a player that started 7 months earlier will always have a 7 month advantage over me, even if that player only logs in once a week to change his skill.
That's where your philosophy and that of CCP differ, and as they're the one's in charge of the game, it will likely stay the same. The advantage you have over the guy with the seven months of time on you is that you (Probably) have more isk and actualy experience over him. He may be able to fly a hac better than you, SP-wise, but you'd have a ship that you know inside and out, and have carefully selected the fittings for, and know exactly how to get the most out of it, while he grabbed a deimos off of the market at Jita and stuck 5 Heavy Neutron IIs on it not knowing what he's doing.
Buying skillpoints/rewarding ingame actions with character progression is contrary to the fundamental design of Eve, and can't be reconciled
Lowsec Piracy: Because you're tired of veld mining but still too much of a girl to go to the real frontier |
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
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Posted - 2006.06.09 06:48:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 09/06/2006 06:52:05
Originally by: Caletha
However this would give people (like me) a reason to keep making isk, because at this point I've got everything I need and feel I've lost any reason (at this time) to make isk (as I cant use any other ship-type for at least 2 months and I've got enough isk to replace my PvP ships for a while).
but you know - isk should be seen as a tool, not as an aim  ... money (in-game & rl) is overrated 
Quote:
I still feel strongly that if you play more then someone else, this should be seen in more then just better items. If I play less I expect to progress slower through a game, if I play more I expect to progress faster. But Eve (currently) isnt like that, we all progress through the game at the same pace. This means a player that started 7 months earlier will always have a 7 month advantage over me, even if that player only logs in once a week to change his skill.
wrong - he won't have a 7 month advantage .. maybe in skillpoints but not in playerskill
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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wiatros
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Caletha
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omg, worst idea ever. please, dont make another wow from this game.
if you are so rich and you want to get your char uber, just go on auction and buy some +30mills sp chars. prices for those are rather cheap (comparing to, lets say, t2 bpos)
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Chribba
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:45:00 -
[23]
I want to be able to buy faction standing as well then.
EVE-Files | EVE-Search | Monitor this Thread |
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Shandling
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Posted - 2006.06.09 09:47:00 -
[24]
lol
no :P
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starvoid
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:16:00 -
[25]
So basically you are saying that those with more money in real life should be able to bring that advantage into eve? 
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Asnar
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:16:00 -
[26]
Let's make everything ingame buyable with RL cash then. At stupid prices as well. So people that have more cash, get to play EVE better... awesome idea. Trully brilliance... but NO
If you got that much isk, there's plenty of implants to buy... go fly a dreadnought... or whatever. Invest it, so you don't ahve to spend time making isk ever again.
 And how exactly do you adapt to potentially getting killed by everybody you kill? -Nero Scuro
If I miss you, it will be because my tracking is a little off. - Grey Area |
Shandling
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Posted - 2006.06.09 11:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: starvoid
So basically you are saying that those with more money in real life should be able to bring that advantage into eve?
This is one of the things I really like about Eve... ISK can't really buy any sort of powerleveling (besides implants) and the only way to become 'uber' is to put your time in like everybody else.
ISK does not a badass make.
If they made a change like this, that would all change. People would buy ISK as much or more than gold/plat in other MMO's.
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newfacewee
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Posted - 2006.06.09 13:54:00 -
[28]
I don't know if it should be isk based, but I do think there should be a way for people willing to put some effort in to gain more SP. Its the most annoying thing ever being a new player and being constantly outmatched, even when you gear yourself up to your max, because some guy started playing 6 mo before you.
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Hesprax
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Posted - 2006.06.09 14:09:00 -
[29]
A lot of people who are fairly new to Eve miss this point. Beyond a certain point it's much more about experience and actual player skill and knowledge than about character skill points, being able to outthink your opponent weather it's through clever use of what you have or through some other mechanic of the Eve galaxy or indeed just psychology is the recipe for success much of the time. Eve is a thinking game more than it is a blasting game.
Also you'd be surprised how fast you can catch up if you specialise, particularly in the smaller ships, as there is only so much you can train for using one ship class and 1 weapon type etc.
/emote adopts Yoda persona, Have some patience young padawan ...and the force shall come to you in time.
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Mastoras
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:56:00 -
[30]
If people bought sp, that would also destroy the strategy we all use when were up against someone in space. Its that we look at someone's employment history to see how old they are, which gives a pretty good indication of how powerful a character is by how long they been around. If anything they could be weaker because they didnt play that whole time, but at least you know the max potential they have.
Now if you add in buying skill points, well then when u come against a June 1 2006 player, how do we know they dont have 10m skillpoints cuz they just bought it all. See that would be horrible and totally change the way eve plays. Yeah maybe you can say its more exciting cuz u have no idea what your facing, but that little bit of information goes a long way of strategizing and thats something most of us dont want to lose.
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