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Osolot Caine
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Posted - 2006.06.08 23:34:00 -
[1]
I am not trying to provoke a mass flame or wind anyone up, this is just my opinion, I might be missing something, feel free to agree or disagree
I dont get the point of declaring war on a 0.0 corp or alliance. In some respects I think it is pointless and in others cowardly. if you want to fight a 0.0 corp or alliance you know where to find them.
0.0 corp members really only go to empire for consumables, skill books etc. maybe they transport some bits and bobs around to. Chances are they are not flying combat ships and probably wont face to much financial loss, they make most of their money in 0.0. 3 Battle ships ganking a shuttle or frig is not war, its a kill and a pretty poor one at that
Cheers
I could calulate the chances of survival, but you wouldn't like it |
Jiara Castoumi
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Posted - 2006.06.09 01:22:00 -
[2]
not everyone in an alliance lives in 0.0 tbh and they tend to end up being the targets.
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.06.09 02:31:00 -
[3]
You have more or less 3 possible targets when you are a "warcorp". Empire corps, empire alliances and 0.0 alliances.
Of those 3, 0.0 alliances tend to be the richest and easiest to kill as they usually cba going to empire to fight, so you might get more easy kills and better loot.
Blobbing can also be considered cowardly, yet most (all?) alliances have no problem doing that.
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Mephistos
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Posted - 2006.06.09 07:36:00 -
[4]
Because all alliances, 0.0 or otherwise use empire.
Where do you sell the mins that your miners get? Where do you build/acquire your tech 2 items? Where do you sell the loot from that officer you just killed?
When people are flying around empire they're more likely to get careless and make an expensive mistake. Cutting off an alliances access to empire hurts them financially and hurts their morale.
And in EVE where you can't really kill an alliance the best thing you can do is to make them no longer wish to be at war with you, and to do that you have to destroy their morale, make it so it's not fun for them.
You can't just war dec an alliance and ignore their 0.0 operations of course, but that's the purpose of the empire war dec.
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Eric carr
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Posted - 2006.06.09 08:44:00 -
[5]
well most drilled 0.0 allainces have alt corp outside the alliance to thier hauling to empire. We talkin freghtors etc etc. So find the juicy targets you must get out to 0.0 and kill everything
Please only use english in your signature - Jacques([email protected]) |
Rina Shanu
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Posted - 2006.06.09 13:40:00 -
[6]
A war is a war. Disrupting enough the economics of one entity can get their attention and if it is done at a certin level destroy it.
From what I have observed wars against 0.0 alliances are not singular, meaning that wars are declared on a 0.0 alliance at a point in time when another entity wages war in that area of effect (0.0 it is). Thus the 0.0 alliance focuses it's resources for offence, defence, or in expectation. Soldiers ftw.
This triggers the industrial part of the entity, which has to make runs to empire at some point.
A war declaration ives thye possibility of killing these industrials everywhere.
Makes a lot of sense to me and seems to a huge lot of others.
Regards, Rina Shanu
RECRUITING |
Dearwin
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Posted - 2006.06.09 22:07:00 -
[7]
The previous posters got it nailed. I think one of the other things lit lets you do is be flexible. Most pipes from empire space to alliance hubs go through atleast several low sec empire systems before coming to any system of value. This simply gives you more options to engage you're target in what is safer and hence more tactical space for you. It also simply makes it harder for targets to run. If theres no war dec either system can just run to the nearest system with some sentry guns and sit and laugh. War deccing does a good job of taking out the guess work, and allows you fully flexible enviroment for you're tactics. Besides how else you gonna get the poor industrial character hauling 6000m3 of Zyd into Jita?
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nickycakes
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Posted - 2006.06.10 09:29:00 -
[8]
Quit with the whine. If theres no point in declaring war on a 0.0 alliance, and it's so pointless, then it wont affect you. Just use an alt to haul or something, no need to cry .
Rarely Outnumbered, Usually Outgunned, Never Outsmacked
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Fong SaiYuk
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Posted - 2006.06.10 16:18:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Fong SaiYuk on 10/06/2006 16:22:35
Agree with nick. Like all else in Eve deal with it through the many facilites available or pls....STFU.
To answer your OP the point of wardecing an alliance is to hit those alliance members that are in 0.0/ Or in the recent case of Outbreak, camp the 0.0 pipelines to disrupt supply lines and get rich. Its canny but perhaps you hadn't thought this thru....alt.
 Quote:
0.0 corp members really only go to empire for consumables, skill books etc. maybe they transport some bits and bobs around to. Chances are they are not flying combat ships and probably wont face to much financial loss, they make most of their money in 0.0.
And to point out some misconceptions/general idiocy. The richnes of 0.0 is generally exemplified thru loot. To get a decent price you need to take it to empire. Now to expand on this how do T2 combat ships get to 0.0? Well asshat they need to be produced and while 0.0 T2 ship production is possible it isnt common. Therefore you need to get the ship to 0.0. I think your begining to see the point. 0.0=ISK=Need to get it to empire=need to return to 0.0 with goods.
Now do you see the disruption caused thru Empire war? No not a big pain but relevant.
3 Battle ships ganking a shuttle or frig is not war, its a kill and a pretty poor one at that
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Kalixa Hihro
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Posted - 2006.06.11 03:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Osolot Caine
I am not trying to provoke a mass flame or wind anyone up, this is just my opinion, I might be missing something, feel free to agree or disagree
I dont get the point of declaring war on a 0.0 corp or alliance. In some respects I think it is pointless and in others cowardly. if you want to fight a 0.0 corp or alliance you know where to find them.
0.0 corp members really only go to empire for consumables, skill books etc. maybe they transport some bits and bobs around to. Chances are they are not flying combat ships and probably wont face to much financial loss, they make most of their money in 0.0. 3 Battle ships ganking a shuttle or frig is not war, its a kill and a pretty poor one at that
Cheers
Generally you take it to empire once they are beaten up in 0.0. It's a way to beat them completely into submission. If they can't even undock in empire, well, that's how alliances are destroyed, when corps have had enough and leave the alliance because they can't even go to the corner store.
It's more psychological than bullying and definitely isn't about posting shuttles on the killboard. If you don't kick them when they are down, they regroup and come back stronger. If you utterly destroy them, you don't need to worry about them coming back or trying to take revenge, since if the member corps split and join other alliances, the new alliance already has goals in mind other than one corp's vendetta.
Self preservation is the goal.
-Kal
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Superbus Maximus
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Posted - 2006.06.12 19:50:00 -
[11]
War decing an alliance allows you to hit them in an empire hub where they might be picking up items they cannot get in their territory, and honestly catches a lot off guard.
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Mivander Caine
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Posted - 2006.06.14 06:54:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Mivander Caine on 14/06/2006 06:54:41
Fong
I thought my post was a perfectly polite question, stating a an opinion and then asking for others, shame you seem incapable of being as poilite as myself and the others that have posted on this thread, you should be ashamed of your self, your obvious need to raise yourself above others by putting them down and picking at their opinions and suggestions strikes of narcissism, I suggest you get that checked out. 
As for everyone else, thanks very much, I now see where empire attacks on 0.0 corps can influence the stability of the 0.0 corp and alliance.
Cheers
Mivander
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.06.18 04:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Mephistos
Because all alliances, 0.0 or otherwise use empire.
Where do you sell the mins that your miners get?
0.0
Quote:
Where do you build/acquire your tech 2 items? Where do you sell the loot from that officer you just killed?
0.0
kthxhaveaniceday
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2006.06.18 09:00:00 -
[14]
Well silly, so you make the entire eve universe vs them 0.0. U'd be suprised at how many 0.0 corps and alliances have large details in empire.
Thats all.
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2006.06.18 11:16:00 -
[15]
It's not stupid because those corps alliances DO have footholds in empire unless they are self sufficient in 0.0 (only a few I know which are). It also makes to whole map like 0.0 and it also prevents people from reaching "safe" space in other words empire.
High-Sec Piracy Recruitment |
Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2006.06.19 11:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kaeten
It's not stupid because those corps alliances DO have footholds in empire unless they are self sufficient in 0.0 (only a few I know which are). It also makes to whole map like 0.0 and it also prevents people from reaching "safe" space in other words empire.
I'm sorry but I believe you are mistaken. There arent a few which are, there are exactly 0 which are. It is not possible for a territory holding 0.0 alliance to be self sufficient and not need supplies from empire. The mechanics simply don't allow for it. Unless you know where to mine robotics (ore one of the other 50 items you can only purchase from NPCs yet are required to hold soverignty over a system), or have a bpo of it... in which case... WTB Robotics BPO. :P
Every 0.0 alliance MUST get supplies from empire. And that is the point of the wardec. Well, it's one valid point... tbh the real point is usually to get easy kills against the dim witted members of the alliance, padding killboards and/or collecting nice loot. New members, stupid members, drunk members, all easy targets.
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zoolkhan
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Posted - 2006.06.19 12:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kaell Meynn
There arent a few which are, there are exactly 0 which are. It is not possible for a territory holding 0.0 alliance to be self sufficient and not need supplies from empire. The mechanics simply don't allow for it.
With all due respect mister Meynn, allow me to correct:
-The game mechanics allow outposts visited by unrelated traders.
-Game mechanics allow conquerable stations beeing visited by neutral traders
-Game mechanics allow to set up all kind of assemblies
(i personally build ammo and drones from the ressources found locally
and refined in the pos mounted refinery)
-game mechanics allow friendly relations to traders and truckers
who drop supplies into cans against cash.
and since 0.0 alliances are rich (i dont feel rich, but well. i probably am
rich by definition then) - we pay for that service.
so technically: if i dont want, i dont need to get into empire.
However, i do holidays in empire. even though we have 4-5 concord wardecs
against us. *shrugs*
you dont believe how many forces dont like our people freed
If i be asked where i got podded most in my entire career, i would
have to say: empire
*me salutes to the amarr loyalists, who keep him young by forcing him into
new clones on a regular base*
U'K recruit! |
Uggster
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Posted - 2006.06.23 01:52:00 -
[18]
One of the strange things that I have noticed is that I lose less ships during times of empire wars.
Maybe its because my lvls of paranoia are higher and I go with routes I have instas for or run faster better ships or whatever but it is alway the case for me.
Still, I'm not a hard core industralist so it may be a lot harder for them to do but with T2 haulers and such its possible to do a lot if your careful even in the middle of a war.
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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2006.06.23 04:13:00 -
[19]
Ya, it is not impossible to be self sufficient anywhere in eve. All depends on what you want to fly around and what u want to shoot or mine with.
All you need is a couple blueprints, some basic things to start you out, and a little ambition and bada bing. You can make it.
I personally think its easier to self sustain in 0.0 than empire.
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Fitz's Spy
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Posted - 2006.06.23 11:39:00 -
[20]
Its very very rare that we do not have at least a coupleof empire wars going on.
The vast majority fall into 2 camps:
- (i) e-peen: OMFG look at us we war decced the largest alliance in the game and there are only 10 of us and we got a positive kill:death ratio, we must be the most 1337 killerz ever to play!!1111!!!
- (ii) opportunists: there are always a few alliance people in empire, usually mission runners, and if you are in a 5 man gang they make for easy ganks if they are not being observant.
Fighting in empire is really really easy if your target is large. Its a piece of cake to use out of corp alts for scouting and to get ganks.
I cannot think of a single empire war that has really resulted in any co-ordinated activity in empire aside from the Outbreak war dec and that was just one evening to move a ton of freighters.
I still cannot understand why anyone would move stuff through empire in a hauler in an alliance character when we have war decs but *shrugs* there is always a few.
War deccing a large 0.0 alliance has pretty much no appreciable effect on them (unless you also take it to them in 0.0) as everything is done out of corp.
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Darknesss
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Posted - 2006.06.24 00:17:00 -
[21]
As someone who war decs corps and alliances for fun i can give you a simple answer. Alliances all use empire at some time, maybe not officially but the members do. A small corp cannot attack a bigger alliances space with any considerable force because as someone has pointed our they blob, in empire guerilla tactics come in and targets are more vulnerable. And again as someone has already pointed out, declaring on a 0.0 can hardly be called a cowardly act by an alliance which uses numbers to hide amongst.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2006.06.24 00:19:00 -
[22]
Well frankly you can cause more damage, or at least the same amount by war-dec'ing an allience in empire.
However, most alliences get around this via alt haulers/miners/spys/whatever. Which is a shame.
I'm all for seperatting two differant charactors played by the same player. But when both charactors are esentually performing the same role yet one remains untouchable I personally see a problem.
For more see; Lorths guide to accountability, and how you can avoid consequences for every single thing you do in eve... 
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Nytemaster
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Posted - 2006.06.25 02:13:00 -
[23]
Don't forget that declaring war on a 0.0 alliance can be for political purposes and not just for war itself.
If you need to try and slow down supply lines and you aren't doing a good job of it in 0.0, an empire war might work better or at least make it harder for them (ie use of alts and other corporations.)
Besides, not all members of 0.0 alliances reside in 0.0. A lot of them choose to do missions and other types of empire tasks that they cannot do in deep space. Tech II blueprints don't grow on trees.
---
Nytemaster |
silence guilt
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Posted - 2006.06.25 06:59:00 -
[24]
I think alliances are evrywhere and not only in 0.0
So when declaring war to any corp or alliance must be ready to face the enemy evrywhere (either sides).
Yes I agree with you killin a frig with 3 bs, is not such a fair kill , i would say its a waste of ammo
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killerco
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Posted - 2006.06.25 11:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kaell Meynn
Every 0.0 alliance MUST get supplies from empire. And that is the point of the wardec. Well, it's one valid point... tbh the real point is usually to get easy kills against the dim witted members of the alliance, padding killboards and/or collecting nice loot. New members, stupid members, drunk members, all easy targets.
True every 0.0 alliance must get supplies from empire, however most 0.0 alliances use 2nd accounts too get those supplies too the mainports too 0.0 and have a nice fleet there waiting too escort the goods too 0.0. But still it is a valid way of trying too disrupt supply lines.
Don't be a great man just be a man |
Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.06.26 12:03:00 -
[26]
Our alliance has several wars declared on it. Now...up until yesterday I was wondering where all the flashing red people were hiding. Hadent seen any of them since they dec'ed.
That was up until last night when I made clone jump to Empire to grab a few skills. Jusr done the usual "Open Market, Buy Skills, Set Autopilot, Undock in my shuttle and fly about" style of thing.
So I'm sitting there semi afk watching the wee shuttle fly along through warp, it emerges from warp at a gate.....and theres red on the overview. "Must be a bug I think" and let the shuttle fly along on its own....no no...a second or two later a little interceptor is targetting, then scramming and webbing me. Not much I can go in a shuttle, so I let it fly along on auto, and jump the gate.
Over the course of the next 16 jumps, I get targetted and attacked no less than 11 times, on two occassions it was a pair of BS's (who looked suspiciously like they were gatecamping) after my ass. It was like a full on ****ing warzone.
I thought 0.0 was supposed to be hostile, but no, its actually far less stressful than trying to get a few skillbooks in high sec Empire.
So, yes, thats why alliances get dec'ed, so that PvP corps can attack, sleepy, semi-afk Alliance members, when they are forced have to jump clone up to that god-awful mess that is known as Empire. 
Anyway, seeing as I saw a good few war-targets flying around in Haulers, frigates and the like, I think I might spend a short while in Empire ganking a few of them....but....I get the feeling that a lot of them will dock rather than fight, they only seem to be after cheap, quick and easy kills. (Probably profitable though, and not overly risky)
---------------------
Sig to come soonish.
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Jade Ro
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Posted - 2006.06.27 05:35:00 -
[27]
I have been in 0.0 since I started game.. war decs... I barely notice. Since I can remember I have had a war dec either on my current corp or alliance.. I am always checking the current war decs and thinking.. hmm who the heck are these guys.. and why do I never see them.. oh thats right.. They are to terrified to come down here.
I have not lost a single item ferrying from Empire.. as I always use scouts, I don’t fly where I know there are bubble camps etc into the entrances of Empire. When I am in Empire I am fit for battle and I use instas... scouts/know my area etc.. If I need something.. I send intys or have it delivered via carrier.
In my experience, war dec'ing a 0.0 alliance .. at least personally is not terribly disruptive and a bit humorous. However if war dec'ing a particular alliance who has strong empire ties.. well that might be an effective means of killing said alliance. But a 0.0 alliance that knows his stuff? I have not really known it to be of a serious threat of any sort. Good 0.0 pilots are used to watching their backs 24/7 and treat Empire like its 0.0 if there are any current war decs at all times.
Just my thoughts on this.. yes war dec'ing a good 0.0 alliance or corp is silly but possibly not in all cases. Depends on how strong their ties and how noobish their player base is.
Navy Fleet Director - Catalyst Reaction
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