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Sentani
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sentani on 09/06/2006 15:12:30
im sick of seeing macrominers safe in highsec just becouse they are in a NPC corp
i honestly think you should get kicked outoff the newbie corps after one month into a CCP run player corp wich can get war-deced
your not supose to be in a newbie corp forever anyway...
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The Eris Goes Straight to your Head.  |
Intas Revso
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:08:00 -
[2]
Or you can make the mining lasers go bang after 1 hours.... because franky noone can decide when you stop being a "newbie" therefore it would be very ignorant to put a limit of which you can be in the corp.
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Pepperami
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:09:00 -
[3]
ncp car parks?
[Art of War][- V -] |
Iron Wraith
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Posted - 2006.06.09 15:28:00 -
[4]
no. you cant peanalise an entire player base because of some jerks. nerfing the newbie corp is not the way to deal with macroers, war dec dogers or corp theives. there are many players out there who even after years of play are still in the newbie corp and want to stay there. so please keep brain storming but leave the innocents alone.
i've seen these newbie corp vets time and time again. they are generaly happy soloing lvl4 missions and chatting to newbies and answering their questions. while i only take my experiance into the newbie corp's when i make an alt these guys are there day in and day out helping our younger players get into the game.
Because sometimes you just have to go back to your roots:
[2005.02.20 01:08:03] (combat) Your Civilian Light Electron Blaster perfectly strikes Serpentis Smuggler, wrecking for 20.3 damage. |
Kari Kayira
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Posted - 2006.06.09 16:10:00 -
[5]
War declarations can be abused in the opposite direction forcing players in small new corps back into the NPC corps too. Forcing players into Empire wars is not the solution. Continued active input and some form of player decision making during mining sound like a better plan.
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.06.09 18:11:00 -
[6]
I agree with Iron Wraith. The older players in newbie corps are a big help to starting players. I got a lot of good advice from long-time veterans of my newbie corp.
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TomParad0x
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Posted - 2006.06.09 18:26:00 -
[7]
Edited by: TomParad0x on 09/06/2006 18:32:54
Edited by: TomParad0x on 09/06/2006 18:31:53
 Originally by: Sentani
im sick of seeing macrominers(Goes on...)
Im so sick of seeing "Nerf the macrominers" threads when the only simple solution was slaped in your face when you hit the "I Agree" button at the start of the games first launch.
Im just going to quote myself from another one of the "Nerf the macrominers" thread...
Originally by: TomParad0x
IMO, the only solution to fixing the problem is banning them... They are breaking the rules, they should be banned:
Originally by: EULA
CONDUCT
A. Specifically Restricted Conduct
Your continued access to the System and license to play the Game is subject to proper conduct. Without limiting CCP's rights to control the Game environment, and the conduct of the players within that environment, CCP prohibits the following practices that CCP has determined detract from the overall user experience of the users playing the Game:
1. You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System.
2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
3. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
4. You may not use the Software, or any information accessible through the System, to bypass the System login architecture or create or provide any other means through which the System may be accessed and/or the Game may be played by others, as, for example, through server emulators.
5. You may not engage in any conduct that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, including without limitation arranging, making or accepting transfers of items to a character without adequate consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in an Account and increasing its value for an Account sale.
as stated on the EULA:
http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/eula.asp
Sig offline till i fix my domain... |
Drizit
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Posted - 2006.06.09 20:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: TomParad0x
Edited by: TomParad0x on 09/06/2006 18:32:54
Edited by: TomParad0x on 09/06/2006 18:31:53
Originally by: Sentani
im sick of seeing macrominers(Goes on...)
Im so sick of seeing "Nerf the macrominers" threads when the only simple solution was slaped in your face when you hit the "I Agree" button at the start of the games first launch.
*snip*
Although I agree with you that the solution is simple under the terms of the EULA, the proof is the problem. Making it difficult for mining to be done by macro without making it too difficult for a legitimate miner is also a problem.
1. No response from local: Player may be temp AFK making a coffee. Not unknown in highsec, I go to make a coffee myself since my drones protect me from NPC rats.
2. No response from bumping, stealing: Player knows agressive moves are often a ploy to get them to attack so aggressor can gank them.
3. Target or shoot them: Player has Concord protection and insurance, what do they care?
The only answer is: All players over a certain age are transferred into a secondary NPC corp. While the first noob corp you are in protects you as the system allows now, the second only stops corp wardecs: Then allow 1v1 only private wardecs that cannot be done against members of the starter noob corp. Wardec an individual and only you and them have rights to shoot at each other, neither side has the right to employ help and turn it into a gang war or a corp war. If it causes you a problem, you can get better players to wardec your opponent. I doubt macro miners will find much sympathy from other players to enable them to get back at the player who wardecced them and macro miners do not bother to train any more than the basic combat and drone skills.
No difference to the existing wardec system except the it's limited to only the two individuals. The real starters are protected while the older players are exposed to a private wardec. Mining barges cannot be operated by players in teh starter corp, they must be members of the secondary corp to use one. Voluntary relocation to the secondary corp is allowed for those who wish to get into a barge quickly but you can't go back to the starter corp once you are in the secondary.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.06.09 20:27:00 -
[9]
And that is and remains TERRIBLE wording if it's a BAN.
"accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play" being the key there.
And there are very few macrominers anyway, they're FARMERS, have have a Human watching over the accounts to deal with "problems" like GM's asking questions like "hey, are you there".
Makes it just a BIT complex...
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Wolfmoon
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Posted - 2006.06.09 20:35:00 -
[10]
You can't judge wether someone is macroing or not simply by the lack of response in local. You can't judge that either by their lack of willingness to join you in private chat.
I mine and mine, and dont want to be bothered when I do. I minimize the local chat because either I don't care what's being said locally or nothing at all is being said. I refuse private chats 99.9999% of the time.
I have no clue how to make, let alone initiate a macro.
I just mine for ISK, leave me the hell alone. |
Lisento Slaven
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Posted - 2006.06.09 20:45:00 -
[11]
No. Kicking people out of the NPC corp does not improve the situation in any way.
It makes harassment a harder issue to seperate from reality and "just playing the game."
We already have corporations that are war-decced for months at times with the enemy refusing to accept anything less thatn "leave your corp and never form again."
NPC corp players ALREADY experience limited gameplay. They are INSTA-POP in low-security (LOOK ITS A SPY!!!). They are literally hated by every a large number of "real" corps and are left out of a lot of situations in EVE.
Someone who stays in the NPC corp and does not want to leave should not be forced to leave. If macro-miners and freighter pilots are your only reasons for kicking people out of the NPC corp then I doubt anyone at CCP will look at the situation seriously. A lot of people will just throw the "adapt or leave" ideology that seems to just ooze out of EVE. "The methods of destroying people in the NPC corps exists...use them and stop trying to change the game" =P
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Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales! |
TomParad0x
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Posted - 2006.06.09 21:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Wolfmoon
You can't judge wether someone is macroing or not simply by the lack of response in local. You can't judge that either by their lack of willingness to join you in private chat.
To reply to this i will simply reply with this quote from some patch notes:
Quote:
Miscellaneous
* GM tools for detecting and banning macro'ers and other evildoers have been added and improved.
From: http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=35&sid=143112534
Sig offline till i fix my domain... |
Drizit
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Posted - 2006.06.09 22:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And that is and remains TERRIBLE wording if it's a BAN.
I'd tend to agree. It only states that it's restricted which implies that people can use them if they restrict the use to a certain instance. Time, number of players, location or whatever. At no point does it actually state in the paragraph that they can (or will) be banned for using macros.
Those who say that players should not buy from them are barking up the wrong tree. I agree that they should not but the problem is that the Macro miners create their own market. As a miner with no combat skills at all beyond the basics, I go out to mine the ore and there isn't any because they have had it all. That means I can't earn my isk to get what I need to continue playing, I can't obtain the minerals I need to manufacture. I have no combat skills to do more than pop a couple of 0.6 rats with my drones so missions are out of the question. If I were inclined to go to Ebay to buy isk, it would probably be a more viable solution than trying to compete against them.
Getting rid of the macros to start with is the only answer. Remove the competition we have against bots who can run everything 24/7 while we can only play 3 or 4 hours a day. Allowing players to earn isk as it should be earned IG and the external isk market becomes history and those few markets that remain due to real players will be easier to track down.
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Lisento Slaven
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Posted - 2006.06.10 00:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Drizit
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And that is and remains TERRIBLE wording if it's a BAN.
I'd tend to agree. It only states that it's restricted which implies that people can use them if they restrict the use to a certain instance. Time, number of players, location or whatever. At no point does it actually state in the paragraph that they can (or will) be banned for using macros.
Those who say that players should not buy from them are barking up the wrong tree. I agree that they should not but the problem is that the Macro miners create their own market. As a miner with no combat skills at all beyond the basics, I go out to mine the ore and there isn't any because they have had it all. That means I can't earn my isk to get what I need to continue playing, I can't obtain the minerals I need to manufacture. I have no combat skills to do more than pop a couple of 0.6 rats with my drones so missions are out of the question. If I were inclined to go to Ebay to buy isk, it would probably be a more viable solution than trying to compete against them.
Getting rid of the macros to start with is the only answer. Remove the competition we have against bots who can run everything 24/7 while we can only play 3 or 4 hours a day. Allowing players to earn isk as it should be earned IG and the external isk market becomes history and those few markets that remain due to real players will be easier to track down.
This argument doesn't hold ground because macro-miners don't mine everything. Corporations like my own and a few others I know, strip belts clean. Your competition isn't entirely macro-miners and I don't really believe a majority of those stripped belts are from macro-miners. If your system is getting over-mined it's time to move.
I'm not saying macro-miners don't need to be removed (they'd open up some ore for people to mine, true). I'm just saying that the whole competition thing falls apart =P
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Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales! |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2006.06.10 04:39:00 -
[15]
In my view, it is time to stop hurting the player base because of macro miners. Perhaps a simple solution is CCP letting us know, via the petition system, when your report of a mcro miner is examined and decided upon. Right now I report a macro crew ... and unless I ever see that team again, I have no idea if they got canned or not. If CCP let us know, then perhaps we'd feel that they were doing something and wouldn't seem to think it is a hopeless situation.
-AS |
James Duar
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Posted - 2006.06.10 05:01:00 -
[16]
Simple solution guys: you see macominers, then petition the usernames god damnit!
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Icarus Starkiller
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Posted - 2006.06.10 10:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sentani
Edited by: Sentani on 09/06/2006 15:12:30
im sick of seeing macrominers safe in highsec just becouse they are in a NPC corp
Got a thread already discussing this hugely annoying problem. A thread the devs completely ignore, just like any other 'nerf the macro *****s' thread.
Why? Because macroers pay CCP too.
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ISK Pharmers & Alt spies: A solution
Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something. |
Talos Munjab
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Posted - 2006.06.10 15:45:00 -
[18]
i stayed in noob corp, not to avoid corp wars or marco mine(what ever that means ) , for such a long time cause well all you ppl out there who pod noobs (i mean why was it worth it, you feel manly?) some one has to tell them they need a clone, what wcs are for, and were to go what to avaoid. these things can after much serching be found right here on the forums, but most noobs dont know about them and have to be told to come here.
The help noobs recive from long term players in noob corps far out ways a few muppets who just want tot cause trouble.
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kveldulfson
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Posted - 2006.06.11 07:24:00 -
[19]
Macro miners are a problem and unless CCP do something positive about it they wll be here to stay. I think the point raised about CCP not replying to petitions to tell us that a person was or was not macro mining is a good one.
Its also right to point out that its not just the macro miners that clear out systems, I often see complaints in local about macro miners or ore farmers, when I have cleared out all the omber with a friend (we both fly Hulks).
I would like to see CCP make a definative statement about how they are dealing with macro miners and responding to us when we pettition against them.
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.06.11 08:58:00 -
[20]
I mentioned something similar to this a while ago. So I'll say it again.
After 3 months (Or anytime) of being in NPC nOOb Corp The character is ejected into NO CORP. If you are in NO CORP you have NO PROTECTION From Any Police force. Meaning that if you mine in 1.0 space Concord will not come to your aid if you get attacked in a belt. Additionally, it is impossible to return to NPC corp, If you quit a corp you return to NO CORP.
The outcome hopefully would be that every one joins a Player run corp in the end
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Aarin Wrath
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Posted - 2006.06.12 17:09:00 -
[21]
You want to stop macro miners? In game mechanics changes are not the solution. Client side detection is.
Kick people out of noob corps is NOT the answer.
(and for the "kick out of noob corp after time X" idea, whats to stop them from creating a dummy corp and joining it, quiting and getting back into noob corp?. All this will do is make newbies free gank targets for greifers)
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.06.12 17:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd
...NO CORP...
I like this idea. I think it's silly that you're always in an NPC corp. Just have the character be unemployed during that time, or freelancing. It's cheap and easy to form a one-man corp with no offices, so you can stay safe without joining an actual corp, but you'll be subject to war declarations.
NPC corps aren't just abused by macro miners. Anyone want to guess what percentage of The Scope's membership is pirates? It's a game mechanic that cannot be utilized, only exploited. If organized, cooperative groups of players cannot be immune to war declarations, then anarchist loners shouldn't either.
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