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3GG H34D	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:20:00 - [91] Originally by: The Judge when fighting ships who don't fit nos. Oh thats a good one, i cryed a little i laffed so hard! /me wipes the tears of joy from his Nos Domi ========================================= Think u know 1337?, you dont know nuffink! O_±8+nÅSk*¦u/°÷_˜¦=5ò@Q@Q@M_?ZåñIîbå+T~p(4y+--%£= p(4+iGmZ¦!++ì¦:B¦¦6x+ Ö
Shigsy mya	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:20:00 - [92] i alredy said that... but yars why should we ? as im gallente my medium slots r limited so i cant rely use cap boosters and my high slots are my only good thing... so why should i have to do anti nos crap when every bs in the game has atleast 2 slots worth of it? hmm hmm hmm! answer that
Shigsy mya	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:24:00 - [93] or.... you could just remove nos all together as it is completly overpowerd against everyone
annab	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:27:00 - [94] Originally by: The Judge Brings another argument though, why should people have to gimp their setups by fitting this module which will be a waste of time and a waste of a slot when fighting ships who don't fit nos. These days I hardly find some who hasn't fitted a NOS on there ships. You *** about the fact there is not defence agaist the NOS CCP bring out a module so ships have a defence agaist it. Now your *** about changing you set up. Heres an idea change your set up or don't fit the module. This game is about adapting your set up to what you want to do. I know my setup will have to change to these new modules. I had to change mine when the new damage control changes happened and I'll just change it again when these new modules come out.
Shigsy mya	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:30:00 - [95] Edited by: Shigsy mya on 11/06/2006 13:33:30 Originally by: 3GG H34D Originally by: The Judge when fighting ships who don't fit nos. Oh thats a good one, i cryed a little i laffed so hard! /me wipes the tears of joy from his Nos Domi your a perfect example... nos domi... i mean cmon stick a mwd on that thing and ur pretty much invunerable. a nos domi with even 4 nos can stike a cruiser down to 50% instantly as there is no delay.... whilst fueling its armour tanking whilst the drones run around beating peoples heads in. so answer me this how do u beat a nos domi and dont say snipe it cus if it gets too damaged itl warp as you cant scram it cus ur not in range. with an active armour tank going in the background ur guna b able to scratch its armour it doesnt even need the nos to armour tank either and with enough med slots on there to jam a fleet twice over with a scrammer and mwd ur a bit screwed arnt u.... ( no smart ass comments please cus its just lame)
The Judge	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:32:00 - [96] Originally by: Shigsy mya or.... you could just remove nos all together as it is completly overpowerd against everyone I got no problem with this
annab	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:34:00 - [97] Originally by: Shigsy mya Originally by: 3GG H34D Originally by: The Judge when fighting ships who don't fit nos. Oh thats a good one, i cryed a little i laffed so hard! /me wipes the tears of joy from his Nos Domi your a perfect example... nos domi... i mean cmon stick a mwd on that thing and ur pretty much invunerable. a nos domi with even 4 nos can stike a cruiser down to 50% instantly as there is no delay.... whilst fueling its armour tanking whilst the drones run around beating peoples heads in. so answer me this how do u beat a nos domi and dont say snipe it cus if it gets too damaged itl warp as you cant jam it cus ur not in range. with an active armour tank going in the background ur guna b able to scratch its armour it doesnt even need the nos to armour tank either and with enough med slots on there to jam a fleet twice over with a scrammer and mwd ur a bit screwed arnt u.... ( no smart ass comments please cus its just lame) There is target jamming can't NOS if you can't target, Having friends he can only nos 50% on one ship the rest can hit him hard. The new target jamming drones are very useful as well.
Shigsy mya	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:38:00 - [98] Originally by: CHAOS100 "My assault frigate can't take out a cruiser or BS! OMG the horror! Nerf NOS so I can kill ships 5 times bigger than me!" Q. What screws people in orbit...? A. Statis Webifiers Q. What overpowers drones...? A. Smartbombs? Q. Why should nos be so damn over powering...? A. Because you don't fit any cap boosters. i mean by drone thing that wat makes em so powerful. and if ur in orbit u can escape with a mwd or ab when ur webbed but if theres a nos, u dont get the cap to get out.
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:57:00 - [99] Limiting nos slots would at least deal with the most flagrant abuse of the module (eg,, 4 heavy nos Domi). As apparent as the Pacific ocean is wet tbh. Do it CCP.
Shigsy mya	Posted - 2006.06.11 13:59:00 - [100] /me signed
annab	Posted - 2006.06.11 14:10:00 - [101] Edited by: annab on 11/06/2006 14:14:53 Originally by: welsh wizard Limiting nos slots would at least deal with the most flagrant abuse of the module (eg,, 4 heavy nos Domi). As apparent as the Pacific ocean is wet tbh. Do it CCP. I think they will go of the module as the module is easier to program in. Your way they have to add in a Nos hardpoints to all the ships. This would be too much work. With there being over what 40+different ships and how to deal with the ships already with 4+ Nos on board. Module would be NOS=NOS/module. A quick drawing of module. Your ready to go and a new ISK sink. Humans are lazy CCP will go for the module.
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.06.11 14:25:00 - [102] Originally by: annab Edited by: annab on 11/06/2006 14:14:53 Originally by: welsh wizard Limiting nos slots would at least deal with the most flagrant abuse of the module (eg,, 4 heavy nos Domi). As apparent as the Pacific ocean is wet tbh. Do it CCP. I think they will go of the module as the module is easier to program in. Your way they have to add in a Nos hardpoints to all the ships. This would be too much work. With there being over what 40+different ships and how to deal with the ships already with 4+ Nos on board. Module would be NOS=NOS/module. A quick drawing of module. Your ready to go and a new ISK sink. Humans are lazy CCP will go for the module. Too much work? Did I just hear that right? How much work it is should be besides the bloody point. You have to work to gain, that philosophy has served the human race and nature in general well for about 6 billion years.
Jon Xylur	Posted - 2006.06.11 14:27:00 - [103] Some guy wrote how he beat a Nos Domi with a Blaster Brutix. All he did was fit 1 medium nos and 1 cao booster. This allowed him to keep enough cap to run his tank and guns. So therey you go. A nos counter. People should just use their heads instead of crying NERF! whenever somebody betas their ceptor/Raven/whatever. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, and not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
The Judge	Posted - 2006.06.11 14:31:00 - [104] Originally by: Jon Xylur Some guy wrote how he beat a Nos Domi with a Blaster Brutix. All he did was fit 1 medium nos and 1 cao booster. This allowed him to keep enough cap to run his tank and guns. So therey you go. A nos counter. People should just use their heads instead of crying NERF! whenever somebody betas their ceptor/Raven/whatever. Any proof of this happening ?, if true sounds the the domi pilot was a noob.
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.06.11 14:41:00 - [105] Edited by: welsh wizard on 11/06/2006 14:43:48 Originally by: Jon Xylur Some guy wrote how he beat a Nos Domi with a Blaster Brutix. All he did was fit 1 medium nos and 1 cao booster. This allowed him to keep enough cap to run his tank and guns. So therey you go. A nos counter. People should just use their heads instead of crying NERF! whenever somebody betas their ceptor/Raven/whatever. Thats a single isolated incident. The problem is enourmous when compared to one guy who probably got lucky in his Brutix. What if you don't get a chance to change ships or setups? What if [shock horror]you don't want to fly a Brutix?[/shock horror] There are setups to counter everything and thats the beauty of the game, no-one is denying that. Unfortunately nos is significantly more powerful than is worthwhile to gameplay and has become an unbalancing factor. It is detracting from peoples enjoyment of the game as is ECM. You've got to look at the bigger picture. People moan about both things day in day out, where theres smoke theres fire.
Cmdr Sy	Posted - 2006.06.11 14:54:00 - [106] Why is this a game-breaking imbalance now? Nos has been around forever. No adjustments have been made to it. Why is nos suddenly a problem? At least with ECM I can sort of see why - a complete skill tree overhaul, followed by the training of millions of SP by many, gradual development of distributed ECM tactics in fleet battles, and changes to ECCM, leading to unforseen and contentious consequences. But nos? Just because the Dominix is finally useful for something other than mining, and T2 drones have boosted the Ishkur? What unfair advantage does a nos-fitted BS have over a frig, that it didn't have two years ago?
fire 59	Posted - 2006.06.11 14:57:00 - [107] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 11/06/2006 14:43:48 Originally by: Jon Xylur Some guy wrote how he beat a Nos Domi with a Blaster Brutix. All he did was fit 1 medium nos and 1 cao booster. This allowed him to keep enough cap to run his tank and guns. So therey you go. A nos counter. People should just use their heads instead of crying NERF! whenever somebody betas their ceptor/Raven/whatever. Thats a single isolated incident. The problem is enourmous when compared to one guy who probably got lucky in his Brutix. What if you don't get a chance to change ships or setups? What if [shock horror]you don't want to fly a Brutix?[/shock horror] There are setups to counter everything and thats the beauty of the game, no-one is denying that. Unfortunately nos is significantly more powerful than is worthwhile to gameplay and has become an unbalancing factor. It is detracting from peoples enjoyment of the game as is ECM. You've got to look at the bigger picture. People moan about both things day in day out, where theres smoke theres fire. Not a case of being lucky, he stated he knew he was to face a nosdomi and setup accordingly, he adapted and prevailed. Soemthing alot of ppl should consider tbh, adapt or die Iron and G eat babie's , my views are my own, they do not refect my corp or my alliance
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.06.11 15:07:00 - [108] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 11/06/2006 14:43:48 Originally by: Jon Xylur Some guy wrote how he beat a Nos Domi with a Blaster Brutix. All he did was fit 1 medium nos and 1 cao booster. This allowed him to keep enough cap to run his tank and guns. So therey you go. A nos counter. People should just use their heads instead of crying NERF! whenever somebody betas their ceptor/Raven/whatever. Thats a single isolated incident. The problem is enourmous when compared to one guy who probably got lucky in his Brutix. What if you don't get a chance to change ships or setups? What if [shock horror]you don't want to fly a Brutix?[/shock horror] There are setups to counter everything and thats the beauty of the game, no-one is denying that. Unfortunately nos is significantly more powerful than is worthwhile to gameplay and has become an unbalancing factor. It is detracting from peoples enjoyment of the game as is ECM. You've got to look at the bigger picture. People moan about both things day in day out, where theres smoke theres fire. Not a case of being lucky, he stated he knew he was to face a nosdomi and setup accordingly, he adapted and prevailed. Soemthing alot of ppl should consider tbh, adapt or die Ok whatever, he setup for the nos domi and won. It's still besides the point. Understand that not everyone is wrong because this one guy won a fight...
fire 59	Posted - 2006.06.11 15:13:00 - [109] Of course not, im just saying, nos isnt an i-win if you adapt to the situation. I've fought nosadom's in small gangs and i don't see the problem tbh, it's very easy to stay out of the way of the fat drones or mwd away and circle back for another pass. It's a fight where if you get lazy and don't pay attention, you will die but that's a good thing isn't it? Iron and G eat babie's , my views are my own, they do not refect my corp or my alliance
welsh wizard	Posted - 2006.06.11 15:18:00 - [110] The nos domi is as close as any ship in the game gets to a solo win ship. Nos is largely to blame for this imbalance along with ECM. Thats why it should be changed at the very least to a limited slot module.
annab	Posted - 2006.06.11 15:38:00 - [111] Edited by: annab on 11/06/2006 15:42:05 Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: annab Edited by: annab on 11/06/2006 14:14:53 Originally by: welsh wizard Limiting nos slots would at least deal with the most flagrant abuse of the module (eg,, 4 heavy nos Domi). As apparent as the Pacific ocean is wet tbh. Do it CCP. I think they will go of the module as the module is easier to program in. Your way they have to add in a Nos hardpoints to all the ships. This would be too much work. With there being over what 40+different ships and how to deal with the ships already with 4+ Nos on board. Module would be NOS=NOS/module. A quick drawing of module. Your ready to go and a new ISK sink. Humans are lazy CCP will go for the module. Too much work? Did I just hear that right? How much work it is should be besides the bloody point. You have to work to gain, that philosophy has served the human race and nature in general well for about 6 billion years. Yes you hear right. Look at it in another way. You way would take about 3 months or more to do as there is the rewrite of ship stats, rewite of ship discripion, testing of all the ships and the rebalaceing of the ships. Module takes less time as there is the testing and a new discripion. CCP don't have bags of time as there are more important things to get on with. Like bug hunting and the new content. This will make them take the module route as it take less time. All in all the human race will be lazy as they take the easy way. What easier way over the sea to swim or take the boat. Answer take the bloody boat.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.11 15:43:00 - [112] Edited by: Sarmaul on 11/06/2006 15:43:41 I really can't be arsed to read the entire thread Small Nosferatu Cap Drain: 10% Max Drain: 10 cap Medium Nosferatu Cap Drain: 10% Max Drain: 40 cap Heavy Nosferatu Cap Drain: 10% Max Drain: 200 cap Capital Nosferatu Cap Drain: 10% Max Drain: 2000 cap When you activate the module, it drains either "Cap Drain" or "Max Drain" cap (which ever results in the lowest amount of cap being taken) and adds it to your ship. You can not overload your capacitor, so if for example you steal 50 cap from a ship but you only need 30 more cap to end up with a full capacitor, only 30 will be drained. Scenario 1: Frigate Nossing Frigate Assuming 200 cap each, initially the target will be losing 10 cap every cycle. However, when its cap goes under 50% (under 100 cap), it will instead be nossed for 10% of it's remaining capacitor (9 cap when 90 cap remains, 8 cap when 80 cap remains, etc). Scenario 2: Frigate Nossing Cruiser Until the cruiser is almost out of cap, it will be draining 10 cap every cycle. Scenario 3: Frigate Nossing Battleship Same as above. Scenario 4: Cruiser Nossing Frigate As virtually no frigate has over 400 cap (maybe one of the destroyers), the cruiser will drain 10% of the frigate's remaining cap each cycle. Scenario 5: Cruiser Nossing Cruiser Same as Frigate Nossing Frigate. Until about 50% cap, the full amount will be drained. Past that it will go down to 10% of the remaining cap. Scenario 6: Cruiser Nossing Battleship Same as Frigate Nossing Cruiser. Scenario 7: Battleship Nossing Frigate Seeing as a frigate will never have more than 2000 cap (lol), it will always drain 10% of the frigate's remaining cap. Scenario 8: Battleship Nossing Cruiser 10% as always Scenario 9: Battleship Nossing Battleship Same as frig vs frig and cruiser vs cruiser. Past about 50%, the nos will only take 10% of the remaining cap. Scenario 10: Capital Ship vs Smaller 10% Scenario 11: Capital Ship vs Capital Ship 2000 until about 50%, then 10%. What do you think? Instead of factoring all the complex maths of sig radius, tracking and so on, all it adjust the amount drained depending on the size of the capacitor, which is far more elegant than any other solution I've seen so far. It also means capital nos can be introduced as it will never drain more than 10% on smaller ships.
annab	Posted - 2006.06.11 15:52:00 - [113] Edited by: annab on 11/06/2006 15:54:53 Originally by: Sarmaul What do you think? Instead of factoring all the complex maths of sig radius, tracking and so on, all it adjust the amount drained depending on the size of the capacitor, which is far more elegant than any other solution I've seen so far. It also means capital nos can be introduced as it will never drain more than 10% on smaller ships. counter-nosferatu mods I think the module would get a reistance like shild or armor. Even less maths to work out. Example 50% module NOS 200cap / 50% module = 100cap taken. Nice and easy to do. Easy to test.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:05:00 - [114] yes, because lets introduce more counter modules that nobody has the slots spare to fit
annab	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:09:00 - [115] Originally by: Sarmaul yes, because lets introduce more counter modules that nobody has the slots spare to fit Heres an idea change your set up or don't fit the module. This game is about adapting your set up to what you want to do. I know my setup will have to change to these new modules. I had to change mine when the new damage control changes happened and I'll just change it again when these new modules come out.
Drazin DawnTreader	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:13:00 - [116] Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader Edited by: Drazin DawnTreader on 11/06/2006 00:23:02 ok, at the risk of being flamed... What if The way NOS works is changed? Right now a Heavy NOS has a range of what? 26km? What if that Range was increased to 40km but then gained a falloff penalty at 25km? Would this increase the functionality of the heavy nos in large ship battles? Frigate sized ships will have their cap drained fully in 2-3 cycles of a heavy NOS, But they fight inside the range of a Heavy NOS with this change, allowing them to not be sitting ducks. However they have to get past the range and will likely lose much of their cap doing so. Medium NOS expanded to 25km Range with a Falloff of 10km. Still useable in most cases. Small NOS expanded to 10km range with no falloff. I know this helps small ships, but it also helps big ships who do most of their fighting at a distance. What do you all think? Should NOS be treated likea Turret? Bigger the NOS the longer the Range and higher the drain, but at the expense of not being as useful up close? You dumbasses have the attention span of a butterfly. Quite crying about a nerf, think about a beneficial to everyone change. If NOS is treated like a turret, then it gains optimal and falloff Ranges. It can be used at much longer ranges for large ship battles. Competent pilots can drain the cap of frigates before the frigate is even close enough to fire. But once inside the NoS falloff range the frigate can regen his cap... unless the enemy also fits a small or medium NoS. Its really the only fair way to handle it. Large Ships get increased functionality with the much longer ranges, Small ships dont get completely screwed 100% of the time. Everyones happy.
annab	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:24:00 - [117] Edited by: annab on 11/06/2006 16:25:24 Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader Edited by: Drazin DawnTreader on 11/06/2006 00:23:02 ok, at the risk of being flamed... What if The way NOS works is changed? Right now a Heavy NOS has a range of what? 26km? What if that Range was increased to 40km but then gained a falloff penalty at 25km? Would this increase the functionality of the heavy nos in large ship battles? Frigate sized ships will have their cap drained fully in 2-3 cycles of a heavy NOS, But they fight inside the range of a Heavy NOS with this change, allowing them to not be sitting ducks. However they have to get past the range and will likely lose much of their cap doing so. Medium NOS expanded to 25km Range with a Falloff of 10km. Still useable in most cases. Small NOS expanded to 10km range with no falloff. I know this helps small ships, but it also helps big ships who do most of their fighting at a distance. What do you all think? Should NOS be treated likea Turret? Bigger the NOS the longer the Range and higher the drain, but at the expense of not being as useful up close? You dumbasses have the attention span of a butterfly. Quite crying about a nerf, think about a beneficial to everyone change. If NOS is treated like a turret, then it gains optimal and falloff Ranges. It can be used at much longer ranges for large ship battles. Competent pilots can drain the cap of frigates before the frigate is even close enough to fire. But once inside the NoS falloff range the frigate can regen his cap... unless the enemy also fits a small or medium NoS. Its really the only fair way to handle it. Large Ships get increased functionality with the much longer ranges, Small ships dont get completely screwed 100% of the time. Everyones happy. Well for one your the dumbass for not reading the dev blogs. Shiny new nerfbat is locked and loaded Nosferatus/Energy Neutralizers Bigger = better when it comes to nosferatus. That might not necessarily be a bad thing but the only way to counter a nos is by using a nos, so a frigate can't sacrifice some of its slots to defend itself from a battleship's nosferatus. Personally, I'd want to see some counter-nosferatu mods rather than adding "tracking" to it. So your idea is no go. Counter module are the best way. No changes to NOS = save time at testing. Modules are around 60 lines of code to make. People who don't have one still get affected as normal.
DarkElf	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:25:00 - [118] Originally by: ParMizaN Originally by: Shigsy mya Q. What kills assault frigates...? A. Nos. No, guns do. Nos drain their capacitor. Originally by: Shigsy mya Q. What overpowers drones...? A. Nos Huh? Originally by: Shigsy mya What screws people in orbit...? A. Nos. What? Originally by: Shigsy mya Q. Why should nos be so damn over powering...? A. shrugs uhh Originally by: Shigsy mya tell me what happens when a ship with a MWD, [Nos], Webber, Scrambler, Drones, and a tank gets near u. Answer this and il give u a hole Isk If it is a small ship, laugh at damage. If it is a domi, you could jam it, overpower its tank quickly, tank with cap charges, snipe it, web before it gets close, stay out of web range, kill with torps.. so on and so forth. ROFL sorry i starting reading this thread and stoppe when i reached this post. couldn't agree more. stop whining about things like nos. there are so many ways to counter nos it's unreal. and people drive me mad saying "i can't kill a nos domi in a tiny little assault frig because he nosses me out. why shouldn't bs have a good defense against little ships like that? seen as bs guns can't hit them and drones can be killed easily. nos is fine. leave it as it is.
Drazin DawnTreader	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:35:00 - [119] Originally by: annab Edited by: annab on 11/06/2006 16:25:24 Well for one your the dumbass for not reading the dev blogs. Shiny new nerfbat is locked and loaded Nosferatus/Energy Neutralizers Bigger = better when it comes to nosferatus. That might not necessarily be a bad thing but the only way to counter a nos is by using a nos, so a frigate can't sacrifice some of its slots to defend itself from a battleship's nosferatus. Personally, I'd want to see some counter-nosferatu mods rather than adding "tracking" to it. So your idea is no go. Counter module are the best way. No changes to NOS = save time at testing. Modules are around 60 lines of code to make. People who don't have one still get affected as normal. Nothing is ever written in STone love. A better change is a better change.
annab	Posted - 2006.06.11 16:41:00 - [120] Edited by: annab on 11/06/2006 16:41:26 Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader Originally by: annab Edited by: annab on 11/06/2006 16:25:24 Well for one your the dumbass for not reading the dev blogs. Nosferatus/Energy Neutralizers Bigger = better when it comes to nosferatus. That might not necessarily be a bad thing but the only way to counter a nos is by using a nos, so a frigate can't sacrifice some of its slots to defend itself from a battleship's nosferatus. Personally, I'd want to see some counter-nosferatu mods rather than adding "tracking" to it. So your idea is no go. Counter module are the best way. No changes to NOS = save time at testing. Modules are around 60 lines of code to make. People who don't have one still get affected as normal. Nothing is ever written in STone love. A better change is a better change. Tuxford's dev log Please read as is states the change in EWAR.

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