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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
307
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 01:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
A link to the ol' blog is necessary. Suggestion contains screenshots, mock-ups and animated GIFs.
Interactive Mining Today I lost my common sense, It slipped away between Amamake and Rens, I think it happened in highsec, Using a Brutix to gank a Providence. -- Flunk |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
136
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 02:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Came to this thread expecting a blog link.
Left satiated. I live, I post, I slay. I am content. |
Steveir
Hagukure Empire Industry
12
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Posted - 2011.11.18 12:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
I like the idea of more interaction in mining, but I suggest it is based around aiming the laser at the start of the cycle, something along the lines of the PI system. Since hot spot smoves, max efficency is gain my adjusting each cycle, but if you are semi AFK, then you can miss two cycles without much penalty. |
Tenchi Sal
Dust Bunnies 514
28
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Posted - 2011.11.18 13:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
making mining very interactive will kill off a lot of subscriptions. all the miners that multibox will let their other accounts go unsubbed. it will only create MORE needless repetitive clicks. trust me on this. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
5
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Posted - 2011.11.18 14:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mining isn't broken so please don't ask for it to be fixed. |
Pappy McGee
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2011.11.18 14:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
So... by forcing miners to pay -constant- attention to the mining character whilst mining, they can gain maybe 50% yield on an already paltry number. But now they can only run one miner at a time. And can't even do something on the side -- like read a book, or watch a movie, or any of the myriad other things that miners usually do when mining.
People don't seem to understand this when they come forward with proposed "changes" to mining. Mining works simply because it is so simple that it requires almost no user input to do. That's why it pays so poorly. That's why it attracts so many casual players.
What you have proposed would bork things completely. Suddenly mining requires even more attention than mission running (a far more lucrative option), and yet still pays abysmally low.
And no, to put it quite bluntly, using my arrow keys to keep a little blinking light inside a target is not my idea of fun. Or interesting. Or even vaguely amusing.
Oh, quick question: how the hell is one supposed to keep track of three targets, and three mining lasers? Because no real miner running a hulk targets just one rock at a time. |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
309
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 19:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
I learned some about botting. Apparently bot technology has come a long way since the days of Ultima Online and Everquest. Bot technology today most uses image analysis. Thus the suggestion above would only allow botting to become even more lucrative.
The other posters are correct. Mining works as is because it is an AFK activity, forcing people to get actively engaged in their mining would turn them completely off of mining. Today I lost my common sense, It slipped away between Amamake and Rens, I think it happened in highsec, Using a Brutix to gank a Providence. -- Flunk |
Webster Carr
The Order of the Oar
0
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Posted - 2011.11.18 22:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
A good solution would be to continue to allow 'afk' mining as is, but ADD an interactive aspect that would provide bonus ore (as opposed to simply increasing yield.) |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
309
|
Posted - 2011.11.18 22:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Webster Carr wrote:A good solution would be to continue to allow 'afk' mining as is, but ADD an interactive aspect that would provide bonus ore (as opposed to simply increasing yield.) Good idea.
Today I lost my common sense, It slipped away between Amamake and Rens, I think it happened in highsec, Using a Brutix to gank a Providence. -- Flunk |
Teh Frog
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.11.19 08:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Big fat not. These mini-game ideas are ridiculous at best. What CCP needs to do is find more mineral sinks in order to raise mining profits with out increasing yield. One way could be reduce ship insurance payouts (via suicide ganking, I'm not exactly for that but its an option I would consider), another could be further reduce the amounts of minerals you get back from reprocessing. A third could be (like in the upcoming expansion) increase the item/ship pool. More things to build, more things blow up. |
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
309
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 08:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Teh Frog wrote:One way could be reduce ship insurance payouts (via suicide ganking, I'm not exactly for that but its an option I would consider. They are removing insurance payouts for any ship destroyed by CONCORD with the upcoming Crucible.
Today I lost my common sense, It slipped away between Amamake and Rens, I think it happened in highsec, Using a Brutix to gank a Providence. -- Flunk |
Teh Frog
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 08:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Teh Frog wrote:One way could be reduce ship insurance payouts (via suicide ganking, I'm not exactly for that but its an option I would consider. They are removing insurance payouts for any ship destroyed by CONCORD with the upcoming Crucible.
Man, I'm reading something new every day with this new expansion. Link perhaps? |
Evei Shard
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2011.11.19 18:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
I used to be all for these mini-game ideas that people keep throwing around. Then my other two accounts got to the levels I wanted.
Given, I don't AFK mine in the first place, but when you start running two Hulks and an Orca, you don't find yourself lacking in things to do, especially if you are keeping your eyes on intel (dscan, local, etc.) If I want to read, I'll read the killboard stats on the guy that just jumped in system.
For solo mining, the realm of bots, the little ideas are great, because they make bot programmers work more, and they give the potential for more yield as a reward for not being AFK. I like the more yield idea, but not everyone is out there in just one ship with a 3minute cycle and full blown cargo fittings. :) Profit favors the prepared |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Placid PI Thundering Herd
38
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Posted - 2011.11.20 01:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pappy McGee wrote:What you have proposed would bork things completely. Suddenly mining requires even more attention than mission running (a far more lucrative option), and yet still pays abysmally low. Shoot, as it stands now, I can already run missions with three characters at once and watch a movie at the same time, and make 40ish million per hour.
And no, to put it quite bluntly, using my arrow keys to keep a little blinking light inside a target is not my idea of fun. Or interesting. Or even vaguely amusing.
Oh, quick question: how the hell is one supposed to keep track of three targets, and three mining lasers? Because no serious miner running a hulk targets just one rock at a time.
For those with short attention spans, or -- as the plebs say, TL;DR:
There already is a mechanic for combating boredom whilst mining. It's called VLC media player. Not "endlessly click my arrow keys for fun and profit!"
It's called: HAVING TO ACTUALLY WORK TO MAKE A LIVING. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved.
-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Vandy ColdStone
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2011.11.20 02:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:A link to the ol' blog is necessary. Suggestion contains screenshots, mock-ups and animated GIFs. Interactive Mining
If you don't like mining don't do it. Go play a different side of Eve. That or play a different game altogether. All these people crying because mining is "boring" clearly are doing it wrong.
=D |
Vicker Lahn'se
Eternity Inc
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 08:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Why not just have a CAPTCHA image pop up every time the mining laser cycles? If you fail the CAPTCHA, no ore for you. That'll teach those bots. |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer Une Pour Tous
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 10:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
People saying it's boring should try multiboxing mining...
I run 3 accounts, having 2 Hulks and an Orca, and i can't afk more than 2 cycles (that's like 5 minutes on roids and 8 minutes on ice), and when some rats come i kill them and salvage on the Orca. 5 minutes is almost the time required to warp out-dock-empty-warp in the Orca.
I can afk more when missionning because of my crap dps |
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2011.11.20 16:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Can some1 please make a bot to find those bot-miners? Then pass it on to CCP, it's their job to keep the game bot free. |
Carlos Aceveda
Ares Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 17:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Sreegs was fired recently, so much about Anti-bot initiative. |
Kymatica
EXTERMINATUS. Nulli Secunda
1
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Posted - 2011.11.20 17:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pappy McGee wrote:So... by forcing miners to pay -constant- attention to the mining character whilst mining, they can gain maybe 50% yield on an already paltry number. But now they can only run one miner at a time. And can't even do something on the side -- like read a book, or watch a movie, or any of the myriad other things that miners usually do when mining.
People don't seem to understand this when they come forward with proposed "changes" to mining. Mining works simply because it is so simple that it requires almost no user input to do. That's why it pays so poorly. That's why it attracts so many casual players.
What you have proposed would bork things completely. Suddenly mining requires even more attention than mission running (a far more lucrative option), and yet still pays abysmally low. Shoot, as it stands now, I can already run missions with three characters at once and watch a movie at the same time, and make 40ish million per hour.
And no, to put it quite bluntly, using my arrow keys to keep a little blinking light inside a target is not my idea of fun. Or interesting. Or even vaguely amusing.
Oh, quick question: how the hell is one supposed to keep track of three targets, and three mining lasers? Because no serious miner running a hulk targets just one rock at a time.
For those with short attention spans, or -- as the plebs say, TL;DR:
There already is a mechanic for combating boredom whilst mining. It's called VLC media player. Not "endlessly click my arrow keys for fun and profit!"
FFS i just made some long ass post in reply to this thread and the forums ate it,
ah well the TL:DR
STOP F*****G SUGGESTING MINI GAMES!!!!
After a hard day of brain bleeding stressful work, im quite happy to sit and chill mining with a few accounts, i dont want to be playing sodding pin the laser on the asteroid every minute or some such crap. |
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Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
321
|
Posted - 2011.11.20 19:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vicker Lahn'se wrote:Why not just have a CAPTCHA image pop up every time the mining laser cycles? If you fail the CAPTCHA, no ore for you. That'll teach those bots. That's not a terrible idea ... well, if it pops up every mining cycle, that's terrible ... but if it popped up every 30 minutes or so of mining? With repeated audible warnings from Aura to "Please enter the mining code." Today I lost my common sense, It slipped away between Amamake and Rens, I think it happened in highsec, Using a Brutix to gank a Providence. -- Flunk |
Mary Mercer
King Wholesaling
9
|
Posted - 2011.11.21 00:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Teh Frog wrote:Big fat not. These mini-game ideas are ridiculous at best. What CCP needs to do is find more mineral sinks in order to raise mining profits with out increasing yield. One way could be reduce ship insurance payouts (via suicide ganking, I'm not exactly for that but its an option I would consider), another could be further reduce the amounts of minerals you get back from reprocessing. A third could be (like in the upcoming expansion) increase the item/ship pool. More things to build, more things blow up.
Just increase the mineral requirements of all bpo's in the game by a fixed percentage. As the number of minerals entering the market increases, or minerals pulled increase, increase the requirement on the bpo's. Yield goes up 1 percent raise requirements 1 percent. It should balance things out.
I'm pretty sure they can monitor what is pulled down to the ore type so they should be able to adjust mineral requirements accordingly. Don't think it would even take much effort.
I think the problem with mineral prices would be less to do with botting than it is to do with more players and more active accounts. More people are pulling minerals. Whether that's from mining or missions makes no difference really, more on the market = less price per mineral. And seriously there are plenty of people eager to kill bots. Get on the forums and report them. Join the channel and report them. Someone will happily kill them.
Really I'm seeing the high end minerals come down in price but the rest are not awful low.. in fact Noxcium is at an insane high. Mining is a passive activity. I do it with my accounts while I work on school work all day. But it's also low income as has already been stated. I typically take two or three of my guys and run a few missions at the end of my day of school work to break up the minotiny and I make almost or more money in the short time I am missioning than I do pulling all day in a barge. |
Vicker Lahn'se
Eternity Inc
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.21 07:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Vicker Lahn'se wrote:Why not just have a CAPTCHA image pop up every time the mining laser cycles? If you fail the CAPTCHA, no ore for you. That'll teach those bots. That's not a terrible idea ... well, if it pops up every mining cycle, that's terrible ... but if it popped up every 30 minutes or so of mining? With repeated audible warnings from Aura to "Please enter the mining code."
Here's the sarcasm in my post: ------------>
Here's your head: ---------------> |
Poetic Stanziel
Arrakis Technology
321
|
Posted - 2011.11.21 07:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vicker Lahn'se wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Vicker Lahn'se wrote:Why not just have a CAPTCHA image pop up every time the mining laser cycles? If you fail the CAPTCHA, no ore for you. That'll teach those bots. That's not a terrible idea ... well, if it pops up every mining cycle, that's terrible ... but if it popped up every 30 minutes or so of mining? With repeated audible warnings from Aura to "Please enter the mining code." Here's the sarcasm in my post. I know you were being sarcastic ... but it seriously is not a terrible idea. It will disrupt bots, and as long as it doesn't demand a user to enter a CAPTCHA at a frequency that is annoying (every 45-60 minutes would be fine), it's acceptable. Bots are supposed to be able to run for days without interruption (other than daily down time) ... a CAPTCHA system would defeat them entirely.
Today I lost my common sense, It slipped away between Amamake and Rens, I think it happened in highsec, Using a Brutix to gank a Providence. -- Flunk |
Vicker Lahn'se
Eternity Inc
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 21:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Vicker Lahn'se wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Vicker Lahn'se wrote:Why not just have a CAPTCHA image pop up every time the mining laser cycles? If you fail the CAPTCHA, no ore for you. That'll teach those bots. That's not a terrible idea ... well, if it pops up every mining cycle, that's terrible ... but if it popped up every 30 minutes or so of mining? With repeated audible warnings from Aura to "Please enter the mining code." Here's the sarcasm in my post. I know you were being sarcastic ... but it seriously is not a terrible idea. It will disrupt bots, and as long as it doesn't demand a user to enter a CAPTCHA at a frequency that is annoying (every 45-60 minutes would be fine), it's acceptable. Bots are supposed to be able to run for days without interruption (other than daily down time) ... a CAPTCHA system would defeat them entirely.
Gameplay should not be designed around making bots' lives miserable; it should be designed to make gameplay for players enjoyable. Anything that makes the game harder for bots but pisses off players is not a healthy change to make. When you make things less enjoyable for players, fewer players do it. If you eliminate 100% of bots and 50% of players, you have failed. CAPTCHA is irritating. Half the time, not even a human can understand what CAPTCHA says. Repetitive minigames are also irritating. |
Kaivar Lancer
General Exports
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 16:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
The drops from NPCs need to be reduced or stopped altogether. It's absurd to get more minerals from reprocessing mission loot than mining. |
Marcus McTavish
EnC Heavy Industries The EnC Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 14:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Vicker Lahn'se wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Vicker Lahn'se wrote:Why not just have a CAPTCHA image pop up every time the mining laser cycles? If you fail the CAPTCHA, no ore for you. That'll teach those bots. That's not a terrible idea ... well, if it pops up every mining cycle, that's terrible ... but if it popped up every 30 minutes or so of mining? With repeated audible warnings from Aura to "Please enter the mining code." Here's the sarcasm in my post. I know you were being sarcastic ... but it seriously is not a terrible idea. It will disrupt bots, and as long as it doesn't demand a user to enter a CAPTCHA at a frequency that is annoying (every 45-60 minutes would be fine), it's acceptable. Bots are supposed to be able to run for days without interruption (other than daily down time) ... a CAPTCHA system would defeat them entirely. So mess the game up for the majority of players, because you are mad that mining is not as profitable as you would like it to be?
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Odd Tycho Alfven
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.12.08 11:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
I like this idea, but definitely not an actual CAPTCHA or constantly interactive minigame. Sure you could devise something that would be difficult for a bot but trivial for a human player.
For example, you could say that the targeting scanners can see through all the dust, so have to manual lock your target and would take 1-2 seconds, once your on one rock, you are done. Or could be some silly scifi thing like "realigning/cleaning the plasma injectors" every 30 minutes.
I don't see how someone could be so annoyed with doing a simple task for TWO seconds every 30 minutes if it meant no bots... there are already tons of tasks in EVE that take way more time and are way more tedious. |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra Gallente Federation
79
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 11:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Carlos Aceveda wrote:CCP Sreegs was fired recently, so much about Anti-bot initiative.
AFAIK, not true.
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Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
30
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Posted - 2011.12.08 12:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
also bots do CAPTCHA crap far better then most humans. So it wouldnt even bother them, but those of us that actually mine would tell CCP to go **** themselves over the annoyance. |
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