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K Shara
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Posted - 2006.06.13 08:26:00 -
[1]
Its been stated by some that with CONIN now part of MC, and BA disbanding etc, that the mercenary market has or will soon stagnate. That now there is little choice for the customer.
In a way this is true. However for the same reasons that industrial corporation join together in alliances, so must mercenary corps. Some of the jobs out there are just too hard for a single corporation handle and combining separate corps in different ad hoc coalitions for each contract isnĘt efficient. You end up with conflicts in command and logistics which make the entire contract even more difficult.
I see in the future more Mercenary Alliances appearing. As new mercenary corps form and work their way up tiers of respect they will be invited to join these groups or form their own.
Im not saying that the days of the simple mercenary corporation are numbered, there will always be a need for their services. But we in the industry need to adapt to meet the needs of our customers.
Discuss....
[Please note, these are my own personal ideas / opinions and is not meant to reflect the policy of MC]
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Contraband
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emptydude
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Posted - 2006.06.13 09:33:00 -
[2]
theres no decent choice left for the small corps. no one out theres willing to take the small jobs, as the money is crap and the job generally involves a lotta station camping. anyone who has the money to hire these merc corps on a bigger contract could probably handle it themselves, and so generally dont bother.
i hope in the future smaller merc corps will be hired to bolster defence, rather than the normal ''go there and attack them'' style. people just need to become more aware of the other things merc corps can do, rather than just a war dec.
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YOU'VE READ IT. YOU CAN'T UN-READ IT. |
Ciaphas Khaine
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Posted - 2006.06.13 10:37:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ciaphas Khaine on 13/06/2006 10:38:29
WEll i think mercenaries will stay in the "attack jobs" because frankly you need to be paying a mercenary corp quite alot of money for it to be worth it, and if your just having them sit around "gaurding" your 0.0 operation... well thats just pointless for the client as its not cost effective. mercenary alliances are going to be the end all of mercenaries because ppl hire mecenaries when they need a large group of highly organized and experienced PvPers to do what they can't manage themselves- I.E. hiring the giant mercenary corp to attack enemy POS or make life hell for enemy alliance. thats my 2 cents
IN THE FAR FLUNG FUTURE OF EVE THERE IS ONLY.... WARRRR |
dailyhazard
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Posted - 2006.06.13 10:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: dailyhazard on 13/06/2006 10:44:46
hi mom
it is stupid, generally better corps wont take small contracts because its bloody boring.
So if you want a small corp decced then you need to take a corp new to the biz and you wont get as good a job done imo.
We generally only take small jobs if the money is too good to turn down + we get allot of alliance work.
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Yarek Balear
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Posted - 2006.06.13 11:08:00 -
[5]
There are more 10-20 man "merc" corps out there than you can shake a stick at just now. How many of them are actually getting mercenary work is debatable and many so called contracts appear to be highly dubious.
The joining together suggested by the OP is something that I discussed in another post a month or so ago. I see MC providing the high level alliance work that they are so good at and I see many of the minor operations going around with some very professional small corps and many not so professional.
What I didn't see was the middle-ground against larger corporations or powerful hit and run tactics against alliances were being employed. I believe this is because of a lack of market for it, but I could be wrong - it might just be down to the fact that few merc corps are willing to put their trust in others and join together in the way that MC have so effectively.
This is largely what led to The Initiative leaving the attempts at pure Merc contract work even though we had been reasonably successful in the work we'd performed. We either found that targets we were engaging didn't want to fight (led to boring contracts) or we weren't big enough to attack larger blobs.
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Alaesa
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Posted - 2006.06.13 13:47:00 -
[6]
All it would take is someone with the drive to form another effective merc alliance.
Of course it would start as just a coalition. A couple of corps who take a couple of contracts together. oncethey get to know each other and work together they could group up officially. The only issue O see is that alliances work best with 1 commander. 1 leader. Comitees dont get anything done.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.06.13 13:55:00 -
[7]
well the best have scaled up and the bottom wannabes are struggling or mix it up with other activities
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Avoid
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Posted - 2006.06.13 14:02:00 -
[8]
There have never been anny isk in beeing a mercenary.
its all about the roleplay.
Think isk wise its better to do mining or ratting, then contracts.
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Rina Shanu
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Posted - 2006.06.13 14:47:00 -
[9]
Theres always place for the little guy.
There are plenty of jobs that are too small for the bi players to consider but too hard for the "needing" corp to do.
Plus small players in the bussiness need a place to start from, accepting these jobs, for small pays and all is very beneficial:
* source of income
* experience
* helps in recruitment
* making a name
The bigger the best known players get, the more they merge, the bigger the window oportunity gets for us small players, because they start looking for biger jobs...
I think we're experiencing evolution, not stagnation.
Regards, Rina
Recruitment - Rina Shanu |
Tyto
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Posted - 2006.06.13 19:36:00 -
[10]
In my experience the market is evolving.
There seem to be sufficient 'levels' within the service to make sure that all merc corps of any quality will always find themselves with work that they are able to complete. Depending on the requirements of the contract, and the wallet of the client of course.
As corps merge or grow and stop taking the smaller jobs, there will always be an increased demand for the reduced supply. Market forces will usually fill the gap.
Just my thoughts.
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holy jo
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Posted - 2006.06.13 20:09:00 -
[11]
Were not part of an alliance and we are fully employed 100% of the time
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noitulos
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Posted - 2006.06.13 21:14:00 -
[12]
Nothing will change...just different players in the same game.
Contraband joining MC had no real effect except to allow MC larger POS-warfare-type jobs. BA disbanding just paved the way for other small merc corps to rise.
People will always be too lazy, unskilled, uncapable, or just unwilling to fight their own fights so there will always be a market for mercs...large and small.
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"Every battle is won or lost before it is ever fought."
-Sun Tsu |
Eternal Fury
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Posted - 2006.06.13 21:26:00 -
[13]
Well, there should be at LEAST 2 major Mercenary groups. If for no other reason then you need someone to fight off the one Merc group.
The two major merc groups may be bitter rivals, and fierce enemies, but I can see some real respect growing between them.
Then one day they will both go.. "Hey.. we have more members then most alliance's.. why not join forces.."
and then BOOM! Instant super power.. They'll walk into a lowly populated area, and take it over..
Hmm... wheres my Lead hat.. as Tin Foil has been proven to INCREASE mind control frequencies reception....
The Brotherhood of Light. Small Corp. Big Fun. |
El Yatta
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Posted - 2006.06.13 23:35:00 -
[14]
I dont think anybody is denying that is constant evolution of merc corps, from their first jobs to respectable names, but I think a few points have been missed:
1) Not every corp goes super big - they may be brilliant, but not want to grow their corp to 50-100 members just to keep up.
2)Its not about "are there new corps oncoming", of course there are. Its about "is there enough choice in the merc market, now". I dont think there is - a great example was TBB vs MC, everyone was going "they're as rich as Croesus, they can just hire mercs", and I'm thinking - who? Who are they supposed to hire.
I could count on my toes the mercenary entities I respect, and still have room left over . Now that one of them left, and two of them became one, well, its one foot really.
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Nyabinghi
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Posted - 2006.06.14 00:15:00 -
[15]
I get A LOT of requests from small corps looking for help. Unfortunatly I can't really find any Mercs who are affordable to small corps. Now...If there are newer/smaller Merc corps looking to make a name for themselves, working for more affordable rates I'd like to know. I could pass them some business. I even thought of starting a community fund so that small Industrial corps could afford Merc services.
I mean...not everyone who needs a lawyer can afford the best of the best at $5,000 an hour.
I make cool banners for ISK.
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Rakthar Shmakthar
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Posted - 2006.06.14 06:57:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Rakthar Shmakthar on 14/06/2006 06:57:51
 Originally by: Nyabinghi
I get A LOT of requests from small corps looking for help. Unfortunatly I can't really find any Mercs who are affordable to small corps. Now...If there are newer/smaller Merc corps looking to make a name for themselves, working for more affordable rates I'd like to know. I could pass them some business. I even thought of starting a community fund so that small Industrial corps could afford Merc services.
I mean...not everyone who needs a lawyer can afford the best of the best at $5,000 an hour.
What would you consider an affordable rate? I've often tried to run the numbers on Merc corps and the contracts they take in my head, and I can never come out with a profitable situation for the most part.
Just give me some info on what you see as the typical small contract that goes unfilled. How much money do you think is involved, and what would it typically be doing?
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Rasitiln
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Posted - 2006.06.14 09:25:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Rasitiln on 14/06/2006 09:26:19
stupid forums 
Want to be a pirate? Join Sniggwaffe |
Rasitiln
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Posted - 2006.06.14 09:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: holy jo
Were not part of an alliance and we are fully employed 100% of the time
I can vouch for this I have MF stock Im always getting war dec mails. Wheather or not they are contracts or picking on miner corps I cant say, but generally for the reason of declaring war it says contract.
Want to be a pirate? Join Sniggwaffe |
K Shara
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Posted - 2006.06.14 09:25:00 -
[19]
some good points from some of the posters,
only trouble is that im going to be thinking about toes all day now :)
at the low levels mercing isnt that profitable, but then its not about profit really.
Its more about player driven content and getting a fight.
I know that in teh past we have taken jobs for 50 mil just cus we were bored
Its a shame darths little merc list thread hasnt expamded into a proper merc market place.
would be nice, the prospective employer contacts the merc market place with his requirements and is given a list of the merc groups who will meet their requirement....
hmmm, now if I only had time
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Contraband
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2006.06.14 11:29:00 -
[20]
@ Raistlin: those buggers get everywhere! I'm starting to worry that next time I put on a vote the target will convo me and go "I saw that!". One of the problems with having an old old corp, I guess. Could we.... have 'em back?
@K Shara: I quite like the idea of a full "merc marketplace", but it would have a few key flaws - if people are posting up the jobs they want, unless its fully anonymised, then its going to ruin any client confidentiality/secrecy, and if it relies on self-rated corps, then its likely to return a lot of results with no real distinction between them, for most requests. Also, how to ensure participation? One of those very few merc entities I respect, as I said earlier, isn't even listed on the current merc thread. However, I'm sure a clever system could overcome this, and I'd be willing to lend my support to such a project!
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K Shara
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Posted - 2006.06.14 12:33:00 -
[21]
well..
Trying to think of ideas between calls at work is difficult but hows this..
each registered merc corp would have their own little db entry listing their stats as per dash's thread.
The ceo could update it as they wished, change their status from available to unavailable to on contract etc. add marketing blurb etc
They could list their contract details etc as they got them
Now I originally thought about having the employer register ingame and leave feedback on the contract but, nobody would trust the system because you could blackmail the contrators easily. So I threw that out.
Now, the reason for people to use it would be the the customer being able to search the system for available corps or a paticular size. Also the ceo's being able to update their entries and the entries being the marketing that sells them means that the system would tun its self.
well almost.
Charge the merc corps a nominal registration fee of a few mil and let it run.
Improve the search function so you can specify contract types etc and bobs your uncle.
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Contraband
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Nyabinghi
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Posted - 2006.06.14 13:58:00 -
[22]
Good news is that I already got something like this in the works. I'll post it up when it's done. Perhaps 2-3 weeks to complete.
I make cool banners for ISK.
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Rasitiln
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Posted - 2006.06.14 14:18:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Rasitiln on 14/06/2006 14:20:47
Originally by: El Yatta
those buggers get everywhere!
Ya I was given like 500 of them for some reason, and since you guys have soo many war decs I send people 1 share of mf stock to give them a little spam  since most people never look to see if they have stock and its a fun when I hear corp mates complain over TS "WTF why do I keep getting war dec mails" 
Want to be a pirate? Join Sniggwaffe |
Ange1
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Posted - 2006.06.14 14:29:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Ange1 on 14/06/2006 14:29:49
While The Establishment does offer itself as a Merc corp, we are Pirates first and foremost so this doesn't bother us so much. The inquiries for contracts we got in our first few months were... few to say the least. Since we constructed our Nyx however and through our growing reputation since then, there has been a remarkable increase in inquiries to The Establishment regarding Mercenary work. While many of them are not really worth our while or cannot afford us, I think The Establishment can distinguish itself more from those other 10-20 man corps, whilst not being part of MC or any other Merc coalition that operates out there.
The Establishment is at your service...
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Malaki Marauder
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Posted - 2006.06.14 15:22:00 -
[25]
The Professionals offer merc service at a low cost for smaller corps. My corp is based out of iderion, pirating, merc work, and general tom foolery.
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K Shara
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Posted - 2006.06.14 15:33:00 -
[26]
Nyabinghi, nice dude. you will have to let me see the beta or something
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Contraband
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goazer
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Posted - 2006.06.14 15:44:00 -
[27]
Idk we havent head a shortage of work. In the beginning yea, i assume thats the way it goes. Now that we are almost sorted on our sec status we have had a few very large offers, and an alliance wants to put us on permenant retainer.
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2006.06.14 17:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rasitiln
Edited by: Rasitiln on 14/06/2006 14:20:47
Originally by: El Yatta
those buggers get everywhere!
Ya I was given like 500 of them for some reason, and since you guys have soo many war decs I send people 1 share of mf stock to give them a little spam since most people never look to see if they have stock and its a fun when I hear corp mates complain over TS "WTF why do I keep getting war dec mails"
You give them out? A lot?
Hmm, your inbox blinky blinky!
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cRaNbErRy MuFfInMaN
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Posted - 2006.06.14 18:51:00 -
[29]
(people just need to become more aware of the other things merc corps can do)
Yes id like to place an order for 30mill trit?
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Trevedian
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Posted - 2006.06.14 19:48:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Trevedian on 14/06/2006 19:51:14
People have become more saavy, use scouts, kills aren't as easy to get as they used to be... Random Killing/Pirating is often more exciting and less TEDIOUS than killing a pre-arranged target.
Kr0m has done many merc contracts in the last +2 years. But the game has changed ALOT since our 1st contract. Our last 2 merc contracts were incredibly boring, and corps have learned to adapt to wars by going inactive for a week and staying in station all day and hiding at super safespots.
"In the beginning of EVE" very few corps had knowledgable fleet commanders or pilots that could even carried the orders they were given. I can recall a war against Futuretech where we killed and podded several of them at a mining op... An hour later they were gathered again in the same belt mining again... We also had a war against Peoples Front of Judeo that like a Smorgasborg Buffet of kills (25 kills in the first few hours), where they acted as if they didn't know or care that they were at war, it was just business as usual. PFJ even admitted defeat publicly on the forums, you would never see that nowadays...
More recently we were contracted to harass Black Storm Clan for a few weeks. Not once did BSC even try to engage us, even when they had vastly superior numbers. It was a snoozefest where we would watch people log on, stay in station for 3 hours, never undock, then log off. We killed some straglers but almost the entire corp disinegrated for several weeks, enough to annoy even the most patient mercenary.
Our most recent contract was against an alliance, and we camped their pipeline consistently and did really well for the first few days. But never did this alliance every try to engage us as a group, they would just hide at their POS's and try to wait us out. It became grueling and tedious very quickly.
In closing, Merc jobs used to be fun and you could earn some fame/notoriety/isk for your corp. But now, no one admits defeat, no matter how badly they are beaten (yeah FIX beat BOB last week,  ) Tactics have been replaced by shear numbers, and the mega BlOBs rule the bog of day.
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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