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Problems with 220mm Vulcan ACs on Stabber

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Isaac Godwrath	Posted - 2006.06.13 14:37:00 - [1] I have equipped my Stabber with 220mm Vulcan AC's and I am at a complete loss.. I have gunnery rank 3, med projectile turret rank 3... I equipped a target painter and have target painting 2... The optimal range on the 220 vulcans is 900m... so I orbit at 500m wich keeps me in the 800-1000m range, I web the mob, paint the target and let loose with my cannons.... but I still cannot hit these guys with my 220 Vulcans, whats the deal, is there anyone with experience using these guns? Any help on this mattter would be greatly appreciated. _____________________ Retired DAoC Player
Serenity Frye	Posted - 2006.06.13 14:41:00 - [2] orbit at 2500m works fine for me
Montero	Posted - 2006.06.13 14:43:00 - [3] go out into your falloff at maybe 5km, or further. This will reduce you radial/transversal velocity on the target giving you better hits, and autos hit fine well into their falloff. also if you don't have a stasis web, fit one.
Pichemanu	Posted - 2006.06.13 14:44:00 - [4] Edited by: Pichemanu on 13/06/2006 14:44:29 Originally by: Isaac Godwrath I have equipped my Stabber with 220mm Vulcan AC's and I am at a complete loss.. I have gunnery rank 3, med projectile turret rank 3... I equipped a target painter and have target painting 2... The optimal range on the 220 vulcans is 900m... so I orbit at 500m wich keeps me in the 800-1000m range, I web the mob, paint the target and let loose with my cannons.... but I still cannot hit these guys with my 220 Vulcans, whats the deal, is there anyone with experience using these guns? Any help on this mattter would be greatly appreciated. The orbit is to tight. As Serenity Frye above said: orbit fearther away from the target or stay close but don't orbit (or orbit at a very low speed [u can change speed by clicking the speed bar]) ******* buhuhu... *******
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.06.13 14:46:00 - [5] Use dual 180mm, Stabber has crap Powergrid, there's not much difference in DPS between 180/220. About 20-30 damage per second but Dual 180 will allow you to fit alot more.. Whine whine whine, sigs
Tyler Lowe	Posted - 2006.06.13 14:50:00 - [6] Edited by: Tyler Lowe on 13/06/2006 14:50:44 Check out the guide to turrets in the sticky. You can see that there is a difference between the distance at which your autocannons can hit for full damage, and the distance at which you can orbit a target at a given speed and have any chance of hitting the target. I generally set my orbit for the falloff figure on autocannon as a starting point. You can experiment from there and see how tight an orbit your skills will allow vs different targets. Hope that helps. J.A.F.O.
Isaac Godwrath	Posted - 2006.06.13 15:15:00 - [7] Great, thanks.... I will try to air it out more.... I read the tracking guide but all that did was confuse me more... I'll just walk out my distance and see what Im hitting more consistently with. Problem is I did that and could not find the sweet spot... I'll start with 2500 and take it from there. Thanks again. _____________________ Retired DAoC Player
Phelan Lore	Posted - 2006.06.13 15:20:00 - [8] Only orbit things that are bigger than you. If you are trying to kill frigs with med guns, web them, then hit keep at 6km.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.06.13 15:26:00 - [9] Originally by: KilROCK Use dual 180mm, Stabber has crap Powergrid, there's not much difference in DPS between 180/220. About 20-30 damage per second but Dual 180 will allow you to fit alot more.. kill is right. as is fellow who suggest keep range for smaller target and orbit for same size/larger. what with the roll-eye though kill, quoted you just to see if it was part of you sig or not! __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
KilROCK	Posted - 2006.06.13 15:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Weirda Originally by: KilROCK Use dual 180mm, Stabber has crap Powergrid, there's not much difference in DPS between 180/220. About 20-30 damage per second but Dual 180 will allow you to fit alot more.. kill is right. as is fellow who suggest keep range for smaller target and orbit for same size/larger. what with the roll-eye though kill, quoted you just to see if it was part of you sig or not! I don't know i just put it there because it seems people put some weird association to it, like "WHAT A NOOB HAHAHA I ROLL MY EYES AT YOU". Whine whine whine, sigs
Svett	Posted - 2006.06.13 15:34:00 - [11] Be sure to train up Motion Prediction, it will help with tracking. Also, if these are frigs you have trouble hitting, just reduce your transversal to 0 by doing a 'keep at range xxx'. With those guns they should pop in just a few hits so damage to you would be minimal.
Karaac Sinder	Posted - 2006.06.13 15:42:00 - [12] Good suggestions all around.. Im hitting now, I'll try the keep at range for smaller ships and see what happens.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.06.13 15:46:00 - [13] Read meh!
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2006.06.13 16:10:00 - [14] If you want to hit small stuff with autocannons here are 2 tips. 1) don't orbit. 2) your optimal means nothing, go to your falloff. Most minater guns can't really hit well at their optimal due to poor tracking. You have to go out beyond the optimal so that any orbit will produce less transversal due to a larger radius. When flying a vagabond, I roast interceptors with ease. But not by orbiting them. I charge them, hit them with 1-2 volleys while approaching and then when I shoot past them I hit them with 1-2 more volleys and they are dead. If I tried to orbit them at my optimal, I'd never hit. Even if I tried to orbit at optimal + falloff, I'd have a hard time hitting. Shamis
BlackMoon Thrawn	Posted - 2006.06.13 16:57:00 - [15] another tip: use the "look at" function and try to manualy set a parralell course that is within your falloff, or even optimal if you can get teh transversal low enough. I know you asked about the stabber but consider the rupture for missions and such. The double damage bonus and better tank more than make up for the speed loss.
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2006.06.13 17:48:00 - [16] Just a note about the falloff usage. Ofc a bigger range increases your tracking but you pay for it with damage reduction. Nobody tells to use lasers, railguns or any other gun at the edge or far into their falloff. But everbody seems to think it¦s ok to do this with autocannons. It¦s not. 20% of falloff means 20% less hit chance and it doesn¦t matter much if your falloff is 5 or 10km. The day when it¦s cool to use a 220mm at 10km is the day when it¦s cool to use a heavy pulse laser with mf at 10km. The negative effect of falloff is the same for any gun. Acs have more falloff to play with, but this doesn¦t mean it should be used largely. When you orbit a target of same size go a little bit into falloff (2.5km - 3km should do it) and reduce your ship¦s speed until you hit.
Aakron	Posted - 2006.06.13 19:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Bottled Brain Just a note about the falloff usage. Ofc a bigger range increases your tracking but you pay for it with damage reduction. Nobody tells to use lasers, railguns or any other gun at the edge or far into their falloff. But everbody seems to think it¦s ok to do this with autocannons. It¦s not. 20% of falloff means 20% less hit chance and it doesn¦t matter much if your falloff is 5 or 10km. The day when it¦s cool to use a 220mm at 10km is the day when it¦s cool to use a heavy pulse laser with mf at 10km. The negative effect of falloff is the same for any gun. Acs have more falloff to play with, but this doesn¦t mean it should be used largely. When you orbit a target of same size go a little bit into falloff (2.5km - 3km should do it) and reduce your ship¦s speed until you hit. You are missing the point, going into falloff reduces the chance of hitting. Yes But autocannons (and artillery) have larger falloffs which means you can go further out of your optimal compared to other weapon systems. Optimal + Falloff means 50% hit chance (probably should go check this but ) So if you have 5000m falloff on a theoretical autocannon u can go that 4km further than a laser with 1000m falloff ...beyond optimal, before you hit that 50% chance to hit.
Bottled Brain	Posted - 2006.06.13 20:18:00 - [18] No I don¦t. Yes ok, the 20% number was wrong. Thanks I¦m well aware of the difference between total and relative numbers. I see a lot of posts where people suggest to use acs at 100%, 80% or 60% of falloff but I see no posts that suggest to do this with rails or lasers. Because it¦s totally silly damage-wise.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2006.06.13 21:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Bottled Brain Edited by: Bottled Brain on 13/06/2006 20:30:30 No I don¦t. Yes ok, the 20% number was wrong. Thanks I¦m well aware of the difference between total and relative numbers. I see a lot of posts where people suggest to use acs at 100%, 80% or 60% of falloff but I see no posts that suggest to do this with rails or lasers. Because it¦s totally silly damage-wise. edit: And if you check the numbers you will see that the heavy pulse with mf uses about (roughly) the same portion of falloff at 10km like the 220mm ac. That¦s why I used that example. lasers and rails track better so you don't have to go that far out. Orbiting too close and never hitting is silly damage-wise.
Karaac Sinder	Posted - 2006.06.16 15:49:00 - [20] Thanks again... Im going to try the tip about slowing down my ship at 2500-3000 while I orbit and web... I'm really vexed at the moment because sometimes I hit with my AC while I orbit at 2500-3000 and sometimes I don't, it's still not consistent with smaller ships, with ships my size I seem to hit more consistently. I also tried to approach the smaller ships to 500m but my ACs rarely hit at all, Im killing them fairly quickly, but its my assault launchers doing the work. Ill keep plugging away... again, thanks for the advice. ***I'm saving up for the Rupture
Skylar Keenan	Posted - 2006.06.16 16:15:00 - [21] Edited by: Skylar Keenan on 16/06/2006 16:20:47 Edited by: Skylar Keenan on 16/06/2006 16:20:16 Edited by: Skylar Keenan on 16/06/2006 16:16:17 Tracking Guide It's there for a reason - it'll answer all your question -----------------------------------------------
Agnar Koladrov	Posted - 2006.06.16 16:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Karaac Sinder Thanks again... Im going to try the tip about slowing down my ship at 2500-3000 while I orbit and web... I'm really vexed at the moment because sometimes I hit with my AC while I orbit at 2500-3000 and sometimes I don't, it's still not consistent with smaller ships, with ships my size I seem to hit more consistently. I also tried to approach the smaller ships to 500m but my ACs rarely hit at all, Im killing them fairly quickly, but its my assault launchers doing the work. Ill keep plugging away... again, thanks for the advice. I had the same problems using AC myself on the Stabber. It is, in my opinion, too fast to hit things properly. When I slowed down and the transV decreased, the hit increased a lot. But it`ll leaves you more vurnerable. Thing I also found is not to orbit, skimming a target in a straight flightpath also helped in making the AC hit more. Maybe I give it an other try, cause back then I hadn`t had very good skills. ________________________________________________ Bring The Stabber in line with the other two versions. Add a fourth low.

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