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New FW system and 1v1 - a call to soloers.

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Doctor Knuckles Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 1	Posted - 2014.06.13 10:27:00 - [1] - Quote First of all, let me be clear, i really hope someone comes and shares a different experience than mines, showing me i've been unlucky and or i did something wrong. Second premise, nope, i'm not a farmer, not by a long shot. The last plex i ran down (in my fully combat fit frig, waiting for fights) has been almost 2 months ago. That said. We can all agree the latest changes brought hell on the farmers, which is good and fine. Problem is, it affected massively soloers too, it seems to me. I'll start with a simple empyrical piece of info. In the last 3 days, roughly 7 and a half hours total, all of them soloing, i managed to get 2 fights, and a handful of skirmishes where i had to disengage and run because it was just bait (which is fine, mind you). Pre kronos, i could stick my head out my home system, and get a fight pretty much immediately, and not against farmers. Since the changes, i got massive cases of blueballs instead, with maybe a fight every couple hours, untill i get blown up at a gatecamp and say ** it for the night. Area, black rise and surroundings, flying anything from merlins to comets with the odd shiny or inty in the mix. Strangely, the most fights i got in a Worm, none 1v1 but eh, to be expected. It seems to me the new plexes **** up farmers, but they also hinder soloers too much. Having the rats re-spawning mid fight can tilt a fight if you're in a small or medium, so most people now would logically stay in their faction's plexes. Problem is, war targets aren't really kine to slide in an occupied plex where there might be also be a (or 2) rat(s) waiting. Do not underestimate it, in a fight that lasts more than a few seconds, you can easily get a 15% damage from a small rat, and i hopeyou can see how tht would be decisive in a close fight. So lss FW soloers in plexes, which means less targets for pirates too, which means less pirate soloers around because they CBA. Secondly, the rat toughness made some fits completely un viable. You need a 100ish dps (someone said to me 110ish) to kill the small rat, and it will take quite a bit of time, might be more than a minute, and sometimes they respawn in less than 90 seconds, on pure randomness it seems. Needless to say, there's plenty of legit combat fit that can't do that. Think about LML non faction frigs, think about neut tristan, maybe some arty frigs, i don't really have experience with those. All this to say, soloing has always been tough, between blobs, baits, cloaky surprises, but it was FUN. It was a rush. I started doing at 1 mill sp, and i still love doing it now at my still new bro-ish 8 mills. It was exciting. Now since the patch all i see around are gate camps, various degrees of blob-iness, and bait dual rep incursus in a plex with his corp buddies not even bothering to not be on d scan. Can't even see the usual names i got to know and respect flying around in my area So, my fellow soloers, where art thou? How are you doing? Am i doing something wrong, have i been massively unlucky or did you notice a decline in fights on your ends as well? If so, what can it be done to improve it without bringing hordes of farmers back? My simple input, which i feel would be good for soloers and not change a thing for farmers: - make the rats respawn, and the timer stopas long as they're alive, but make them non aggressive, make it so they need to be shot at first for them to engage, this way the respawn won't affect ongoing fights (let's face it, they're an issue only for soloers anyway) and maybe some more action would be seen, while their effectiveness against farmers wouldn't be changed one bit. Also consider doing it so at least the small ones can be done by very popoular kite fits as well, p ps. please, do not come with stuff like "go to tama or heyd" and the like. If i wanted baits and to engage a guy only to have half his corp rain on me 7 seconds after i'm pointed, i'd already be there.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1153	Posted - 2014.06.13 14:04:00 - [2] - Quote There seem to be lots more solo cruisers about. They are hopping the belts but are mostly PvP fit - good fun. I haven't noticed much difference in plexes but must admit I haven't been on that much lately. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Mizhir Euphoria Released Triumvirate. 63192	Posted - 2014.06.13 14:08:00 - [3] - Quote Zappity wrote: There seem to be lots more solo cruisers about. They are hopping the belts but are mostly PvP fit - good fun. I haven't noticed much difference in plexes but must admit I haven't been on that much lately. Damn, thats great news. Can't wait till I got time for roaming again. One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 566	Posted - 2014.06.13 14:11:00 - [4] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Zappity wrote: There seem to be lots more solo cruisers about. They are hopping the belts but are mostly PvP fit - good fun. I haven't noticed much difference in plexes but must admit I haven't been on that much lately. Damn, thats great news. Can't wait till I got time for roaming again. Lately a couple of solo titans where spotted as well.
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1153	Posted - 2014.06.13 14:14:00 - [5] - Quote Mizhir wrote: Zappity wrote: There seem to be lots more solo cruisers about. They are hopping the belts but are mostly PvP fit - good fun. I haven't noticed much difference in plexes but must admit I haven't been on that much lately. Damn, thats great news. Can't wait till I got time for roaming again. Have a go and let us know. Might just be lucky but in the last few days I've gone looking for fights four times and found solo Vexor, Thorax, Stabber Fleet, Moa x 3 and an Omen. Wish I'd killed them all - I need a better fit :) And I've even come across four of those fancy sec tag rats without even trying. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Baron' Soontir Fel Justified Chaos 167	Posted - 2014.06.13 14:34:00 - [6] - Quote I've stopped flying LML frigates because they don't put out enough DPS to kill novice rats. Last night, I literally had 5 novice rats spawn on me in a novice plex. With 88dps on a LML kestrel, and when he reps 75dps, I could be spending 20 minutes just completing a novice. (I spent about 15 minutes doing that plex with a Rail Comet) I'm sure LML Destroyers have the same inconvenience in smalls, though I can do smalls pretty handily in my rail Corm. Cruiser and BC rats are tough, and I probably just won't do mediums and larges without a cruiser or brawling DPS dessie. The damage that rats put out is very small, but people tend to forget that in these small ships, even 100 extra damage can determine 1v1's. That being said, this sort of evens things out when forcing a solo player to warp into you at your optimal range. Otherwise, I haven't run into many problems with the loss of solo fights, though your suggestion about non-aggressive NPCs is a neat idea.
Doctor Knuckles Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 3	Posted - 2014.06.13 15:05:00 - [7] - Quote Baron' Soontir Fel wrote: I. Otherwise, I haven't run into many problems with the loss of solo fights, though your suggestion about non-aggressive NPCs is a neat idea. Can i ask you how much time you solo compared to your overall activity and which areas you find most profilic for finding the fun? Zappity wrote: There seem to be lots more solo cruisers about. They are hopping the belts but are mostly PvP fit - good fun. I haven't noticed much difference in plexes but must admit I haven't been on that much lately. You might be right, i did see a few of them around, not really great numbers but more than before Kronos, no doubt. Especially considering how many gatecamps there are lately Still, even if i could switch to cruisers for my solo time, i'd miss frigs =( I fkn love frigs.
Ari Laveran Aideron Robotics 78	Posted - 2014.06.13 18:10:00 - [8] - Quote My Tristan's flight of warriors have had no problems in the novice, though the smalls do take an annoying length of time to put down. The rats can mess with a solo fight now for sure, but I don't think it's so problematic I would I would bail on a potential fight just because the rat re spawned. What's really put a hamper on my roams is the number of worm's and daredevil pilots making the plex life a little more difficult. Though if the price of lp items continues it's recent uptick I think I can deal.
Zenoidan Dirt 'n' Glitter I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 20	Posted - 2014.06.15 18:54:00 - [9] - Quote The change is ridiculous. They need to tone down the spawn rate big time. I have no problem with the difficulty of the rats, lets make that clear. Its the spawn rate that is the problem. I actually feel like I am running a mission now i kill so many NPC's while sitting in a plex waiting for a fight. When you turn pvp into pve you have done something wrong imo. That is what CCP has done to FW currently. Again, the only thing causing this problem is the spawn rate. I have literally killed 3 destroyers in a small outpost typing this. Thats how frequent they spawn. It seems to be every 1-2 minutes you get a new rat. Oh look the 4th just popped...brb...
Crosi Wesdo War and Order Repeat 0ffenders 941	Posted - 2014.06.15 19:01:00 - [10] - Quote Rats are never the answer. However, CCP is too busy on other projects to properly iterate on their cash cow. If i hear one more excuse about not having dev time to improve the game i might try explaining that i dont have time to pay my eve account this month and see where that gets me. Not that im really bothered about the current state of FW, its working ok for me. However i do get highly frustrated hearing CCP's excuses re; dev time. Maybe next time dont spend so much money on doomed side projects. I dont know much about WoD but i know you missed the vampire fad by about 5 years, and DUST, the game that targeted at a demographic that doesnt exist. Who green lights these things?

Zarnak Wulf Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 1745	Posted - 2014.06.16 02:23:00 - [11] - Quote It really depends on your play style. If you go open a plex in a hostile system you will get someone's attention. My Corax 2-3 shots the rats in the small plexes. It takes 5-6 salvos to kill a medium rat. I'm an oddball though in that I like as much applicable firepower as possible at the expense of tank and speed. The only time I've really had an issue is when a rat spawned and soaked up all the auto-targeting missiles I was meaning to go towards a pirate griffin. I bring up the Corax as a contrast to the current long point kitey meta. The latter definitely gets kicked in the balls by the new plexes. You can go into a plex to try to get someone - but you won't be able to open too many offensive plexes and coerce others to come get you. TL;DR - Brawlers / Glass Cannon Dessies rule. Kiters drool.
Dato Koppla Elite Guards 604	Posted - 2014.06.16 04:09:00 - [12] - Quote I'm not a FW player but a pirate, however I spend a great deal of my time soloing in the Minmatar/Amarr border FW region. The rats obviously don't bother me at all, but I haven't noticed any reduction in the fights I've been getting, it's still the same as before the changes IMO.
Stalking Mantis Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 506	Posted - 2014.06.16 09:03:00 - [13] - Quote Crosi Wesdo wrote: Maybe next time dont spend so much money on doomed side projects. I dont know much about WoD but i know you missed the vampire fad by about 5 years, and DUST, the game that targeted a demographic that doesnt exist. Who green lights these things? The same person now green lighting legion and Valkyrie. The problem never was and never is the devs. It's who's pulling them away to half finish something else before randomly chasing the next shiny thing and half finishing that before chasing a third shiny thing. I keep seeing the goals and focuses of CCP change almost two or even three times a year now. It's like the names changed but the lessons haven't been learned. They are barely hanging on from the last two shiny butterflies they chased, and look,,,,,two more shiny butterflies,,,,,,,lets chase those, only this time with EVEN LESS staff. "It needs more....phhhssssss' Proud Member of 'The HotPocket' Crew. What It's Like in Militia Chat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzYm3ig7tak
Aiyshimin Imperial Collective Unsettled. 37	Posted - 2014.06.16 11:04:00 - [14] - Quote OP I think what you are experiencing is the EVE of Summer. Players are outside, on vacations and currently watching the World Cup :) everything quiets down in New Eden for the summertime. I do support the change to have rats not aggro until shot.
munitqua Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2014.06.16 11:15:00 - [15] - Quote This is great. I love the changes. FW should be a group effort, not solo. If you want to do solo bring a bigger ship to kill the rats, which is easier to catch. This only encourages PVP. CCP should not change a thing.
Doctor Knuckles Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 5	Posted - 2014.06.16 13:03:00 - [16] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: OP I think what you are experiencing is the EVE of Summer. Players are outside, on vacations and currently watching the World Cup :) everything quiets down in New Eden for the summertime. I do support the change to have rats not aggro until shot. To be honest i think this is not the case, it would be my first EVE by summer time, but truth is i'm seeing an increase in activity, only it's 20men fleet and gate camps, so i don't think it's a matter of less people flying around. munitqua wrote: This is great. I love the changes. FW should be a group effort, not solo. If you want to do solo bring a bigger ship to kill the rats, which is easier to catch. This only encourages PVP. CCP should not change a thing. Why should it be a mandatory group effort. Why not both? Do soloers hinder the activity of fleets? Not in the least, so i can't understand why you'd be opposed to that playstyle. And, to be honest, i'm not talking about FW per se, i'm talking about FW space AND soloing, solo you can't reallyh ave n impact on it, not now, not before, proper FW required numbers pre - patch as well. I'm talking about a decline in targets, simply because the current mechanics do hinder that particoular playstyle. I could not care less about plexing, if i want to plex some, i can do that, i'll just fit a 300dps comet and that's it, cruise rat eating the dirt. I'm talking about finding targets and finding fights where both parties can reasonably expect to be on equal footing without interference from a rat respawning. munitqua wrote: EDIT: Why should a rat Aggro only when it is shot? This only encourages farmers again, and you will not need a bigger ship. Why would a rat sit silently while you are capturing territory? How would it encourage farmers again? As long as the rat's alive timer wouldn't run, a farmer would still need to kill it same as it is now, if they need a bigger ship now, they'd need it anyway.
Cearain Goose Swarm Coalition 1304	Posted - 2014.06.16 13:47:00 - [17] - Quote OP Your solution makes sense. At one point I thought some ccp dev said he wanted the rats to stop shooting when an player wt entered the plex. Your right the dps isn't huge but with smaller ships in solo fights everyone would love to get an extra 10 dps or whatever. munitqua wrote: EDIT: .... Why would a rat sit silently while you are capturing territory? You won't be capturing territory unless you shoot the rat. That's why the ops suggestion is a good one and won't help farmers. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius Justified Chaos 2280	Posted - 2014.06.16 14:04:00 - [18] - Quote The rats currently put out such little dps that they don't affect pvp in these plexes.
munitqua Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2014.06.16 14:09:00 - [19] - Quote Cearain wrote: munitqua wrote: EDIT: .... Why would a rat sit silently while you are capturing territory? You won't be capturing territory unless you shoot the rat. That's why the ops suggestion is a good one and won't help farmers. Ah okay. I didnt know you had to kill it first. Then i'd say its a good suggestion, yeah.
Thanatos Marathon Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 220	Posted - 2014.06.16 14:10:00 - [20] - Quote A couple of things. There are more gate camps atm than there have been in our area for the last few months, mostly though that is due to changes in the Caldari. We busted 4 camps in just a few hours last week all within 4 jumps of Nisuwa. I may have to make busting gate camps my new daily activity. There are people that haven't done much PVE exploring the content created in lowsec with the Kronos release (moar barghest bpcs pls). Some of these are fleet pvpers but many of them are also solo pilots. I expect they'll get sick of farming eventually and come back to pewing 95% of the time. Offensive plexing is now a giant pain in the a** due to how frequently the rats respawn unless you are in a drone boat (rat spawns, attacks, eats drones in the face). I doubt we'll get any movement from CCP on this front until they have time to collect more data. BLFOX is currently recruiting

Doctor Knuckles Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 11	Posted - 2014.06.16 14:48:00 - [21] - Quote X Gallentius wrote: The rats currently put out such little dps that they don't affect pvp in these plexes. Sorry mate, but 20ish dps in a small and more in a medium do matter in a 1v1. Saying otherwise it's like saying "oh well, let's just ignore t2 guns and stop training skills at III, the dps increase is so small it won't matter". It might be true in fights between 2 low tank gank fit frigs, fight will be over too fast for the rat to make an impact. Not true at all between tankier boats I'll give an example https://zkillboard.com/kill/39016801/ It was a long fight, his rails missing me constantly, his dps coming from drones and the odd rail hit now and then, orbiting at 500 with TD and webs on him. The guys was in low structure when i went boom, the rat effectively decided the fight there. You can see why going in a plex with pretty much the certainty of having to face a rat as well can discourage a soloer to go in unless he's sure he's gonna win. It limits the meta enourmously, the thing that make sense at the moment is all out dps fits, and to the opposite of the spectrum most kite frigs aren't viable at all if you O-Plex But, mostly, the proposed change wouldn't have an impact on the anti farming campaign, and it would make 1v1 easier to find among FW pilots (imo). I really can't see a single reason not to implement it Thanatos Marathon wrote: A couple of things. There are more gate camps atm than there have been in our area for the last few months, mostly though that is due to changes in the Caldari. We busted 4 camps in just a few hours last week all within 4 jumps of Nisuwa. I may have to make busting gate camps my new daily activity. There are people that haven't done much PVE exploring the content created in lowsec with the Kronos release (moar barghest bpcs pls). Some of these are fleet pvpers but many of them are also solo pilots. I expect they'll get sick of farming eventually and come back to pewing 95% of the time. Offensive plexing is now a giant pain in the a** due to how frequently the rats respawn unless you are in a drone boat (rat spawns, attacks, eats drones in the face). I doubt we'll get any movement from CCP on this front until they have time to collect more data. Boss i sure hope so xD
Slade Antonius In Exile. Imperial Outlaws. 15	Posted - 2014.06.16 16:07:00 - [22] - Quote I don't know that the rat changes have made much difference to solo fights as far as I am concerned. They are more annoying than anything else and can distract at times but their dps hasn't bothered me much. It has made offensive plexing a bit of a pain but that's what we were all asking for to get rid of the farmers so working as intended. As for that fight you linked, op, I think that maybe using faction rockets instead of rage may have made the difference in your favor. Those with more rocket experience may want to chime in, but I have always thought rage was kinda like void....best used against ships one class larger in most cases.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 591	Posted - 2014.06.16 16:14:00 - [23] - Quote Doctor Knuckles wrote: I'll give an example https://zkillboard.com/kill/39016801/ It was a long fight, his rails missing me constantly, his dps coming from drones and the odd rail hit now and then, orbiting at 500 with TD and webs on him. The guys was in low structure when i went boom, the rat effectively decided the fight there. I agree the rat's 15% dmg is significant if the fight was close. The guy doesn't deserve to hold a BNI Master Class in Solo PVP. Go mock him on his blog.
Doctor Knuckles Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 11	Posted - 2014.06.16 16:51:00 - [24] - Quote Slade Antonius wrote: As for that fight you linked, op, I think that maybe using faction rockets instead of rage may have made the difference in your favor. . Nah with 2 webs they hit perfectly xD @ Gully. Yeh the guy's a pro, so you can imagine how hard i raged that time, i'm not saying it would have been 100% win without the rat, but i think the odds would have been in my favour =( now stay on topic!! +¿_+¬
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders 596	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:17:00 - [25] - Quote Doctor Knuckles wrote: now stay on topic!! On topic, my personal preference would be no rats at all, with timer rollbacks. Your idea of 'LP guardian' rats that would only shoot if aggressed isn't bad at all, though. Would also solve my personal pet peeve: our darn own-militia rats that wh*re on our solo killmails!!!
Christine Peeveepeeski The Amarrian Lyceum 535	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:20:00 - [26] - Quote If you want solo do not come to the HED constellation nor Kourm/kam/huola. We (as in ALL inhabitants not just me and my mates) will all, to a letter completely own anyone out of existance and that player will then get pissed off and never come back. Why? Escalation of the meta basically. With the Neighbours we have and the potential for hotdrops we've all had to get spines made of titanium. Soloers pretty much all fly linked/implanted/drugged because they die in short order otherwise. Even to other soloers simply because EVEYONE local does not trust that solo guy is solo. He is in fact an alt of somebody with a hotdrop button. Since everythings a tarp what you do is go full kite, shoot the target and either it dies with no chance to get you what so ever or it presses the cyno button because it'd die otherwise and you leave the area due to arazu/rapier. Thing is it's not an excuse, I miss flying unlinked but I'll be damned if I give free kills to people that just lol at you for getting caught. be it minnies, pirates or neut null sec alliances. I am no special snowflake, this is not just my thought pattern. Let's take Huola as an example, they do things differantly to us in sis but the end result is the same. You WTFpwn the target till they realise coming in is not a good plan. The only people that do know they will die OR they are new and won't return after a few days of trying. Sis/huola same thing differant methods. Knock on effect, no newbies in the area for long. Vets don't plex, militia stagnates in that area and everyone stays docked and moans no one comes to them. the pipe from sis - Huola 'should' be some of the best pvp in EVE but currently is dull for everyone. I blame the bored null sec alliances/pirates for 50% of that as they use us as content because they are so damn bored in null sec. Amarr also has a major issue in that the vast majority of vets are completely bitter at plexing. In fact many will openly say 'don't bother plexing' to newbs which is wrong. Both for help with WZ control but also inspiring newbies to pvp because that's where it all starts. Hopefully in the coming months we can resolve that and bring a fresher stance to the table because if we don't this just get's duller.
Flyinghotpocket Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica 410	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:43:00 - [27] - Quote Christine Peeveepeeski wrote: Knock on effect, no newbies in the area for long. Vets don't plex, militia stagnates in that area and everyone stays docked and moans no one comes to them. the pipe from sis - Huola 'should' be some of the best pvp in EVE but currently is dull for everyone. I blame the bored null sec alliances/pirates for 50% of that as they use us as content because they are so damn bored in null sec. Amarr also has a major issue in that the vast majority of vets are completely bitter at plexing. In fact many will openly say 'don't bother plexing' to newbs which is wrong. Both for help with WZ control but also inspiring newbies to pvp because that's where it all starts. Hopefully in the coming months we can resolve that and bring a fresher stance to the table because if we don't this just get's duller. you can blame the pirates, and you would be completely correct. but other 50% is a blame on pilots who dont want to plex. plexing in almost every system will generate somebody coming to check you out and determine if they want to fight or not. The only vets that are still around that are bitter at plexing are those who have had a history of not caring for plexing at all. Those of us who cared about plexing from day one are still plexing today. Much like the minmatar militia has had a handicap and his name was sasawong. For those of you who dont know sasawong did all the plexing for the minmatar militia since forever and the minmatar never had to do any plexing, it was just roam and gank for them. roam and gank. roam and gank. They cared about occupancy because you could dock in a system no matter what it is, "sasawong will take care of it" was the motto. And that handicap has forced all the minmatar who never cared about plexing to blob up into 1 system and gank what ever comes into a plex and a stargate. The strategies haven't change, just there is more parties involved. Amarr have their handicaps too which were PIE, Amarrian retribution, and 1pg. For years they were the only ones caring about plexing while the rest got to roam and gank. roam and gank. and now THAT majority is bitter because plexing is the new roaming. Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Ashlar Vellum 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 114	Posted - 2014.06.16 18:40:00 - [28] - Quote King Fu Hostile had an interesting idea in kronos FW thread. Quote: These help a bit, so +1 But instead of rats, why not have a structure: 1) this structure only shoots members of the opposing militia when under fire by them (it does not auto-agress) 2) because it does not interfere with PVP, it can have much bigger tank regen, and dps same dps check, but improved? Hopefully CCP will implement something like that soon enough.
Christine Peeveepeeski The Amarrian Lyceum 536	Posted - 2014.06.16 21:03:00 - [29] - Quote Ashlar Vellum wrote: King Fu Hostile had an interesting idea in kronos FW thread. Quote: These help a bit, so +1 But instead of rats, why not have a structure: 1) this structure only shoots members of the opposing militia when under fire by them (it does not auto-agress) 2) because it does not interfere with PVP, it can have much bigger tank regen, and dps same dps check, but improved? Hopefully CCP will implement something like that soon enough. Agreed but please, not a structure. No more structure shoots! Do EXACTLY what it just descibed but make it a ship,. @FHP, can't disagree with you and amarr suffer more than most from that split in player metalities simply because of the small amount of active players. Has a chuckle to myself the other day, more people in RF freight channel than in amarr militia chat. Epic.
Cearain Goose Swarm Coalition 1304	Posted - 2014.06.17 04:13:00 - [30] - Quote I have some good news. The rats actually do stop attacking when you start a pvp fight. I was in a plex and was getting attacked by a rat. A neutral came in and I attacked him and took the security status hit. I noticed the rat was only yellow boxing me. I think we have to give this one to ccp for nice design! the rat damage you took was probably before the fight started. Sure I would rather not have rats at all either (or have it so the rats don't agro until you attack.) But at least they aren't attacking you when you are in the middle of a pvp fight. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815



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