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A serious post regarding the plague of ISK farming

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Dano Sarum	Posted - 2006.06.17 11:18:00 - [91] @ The OP The first post was very well thought out, excellent evidence given and certainly raises some questions. I for one am gratefull you took the time and effort to bring this up on the forums. For everyone else arguing for the sake of arguing, please don't bother. If these people are indeed legitimate miners then they have nothing to fear, from personal experience I've reported suspected macro-miners in the ZAIMETH system and had GM's reply almost immediatly and confirm my suspicions and deal with them extremely quickly. Yet I've also seen others on a regular basis around domain who block all convos, and mine in a small group with the same character names / creation times / standings. I strongly urge a GM to look into these allegations Jor Azmeh has made, perhaps my attitude is rather agressive on this matter but I doubt if banned they will try to contact any GM and argue their case, I suspect however new characters will be made immediatly from the same IP block.
Tehyarec	Posted - 2006.06.17 11:22:00 - [92] Originally by: Maya Rkell How do you know they are macro miners? What evidence do you have? He presented plenty. You can't really prove it more than that other than by actually being at the computer those characters are being run at. Quote: An alt used for mining will often not have been used for agent missions, and thus won't habe standings. This much is true. My producer alt has no real standings either. Quote: The very "bo" misspelling CLEARLY shows that a Human is answering, so it's certainly not an unattended macro. That's just silly. Misspellings could just be planted in the macro to make it look less like a macro. Wouldn't be the first time something like that is done (certain IRC bots that do that come to mind). Silverleaf Foundation Website & Shop
Tarantella Serpantine	Posted - 2006.06.17 11:51:00 - [93] (yes i know this is an alt, but my mains account is de-activated atm) Kinda reminds me of a witch hunt this does; wild accusations thrown around and as soon as someone presents a reasonable counter argument, you accuse her of being a macro miner I'm not denying that there are people out there that use macros to farm a lot of isk/ore, all you need to realise is that not all characters who mine are macro miners. I spent a lot of my mains earlier game time mining both ice and ore with a lot of other people (a portion of this was in a starting corp with some people). during our ice mining period in 0.3 we were targetted by an anti macro-mining corp, who charged into the system came straight to the ice belt and attack our barges. I make this speculation that they were anti-macroers so as to remind you that you're not the only people who can make baseless accusations. I'm not going to quote anyone in this thread being as you generally all said the same thing, and you generally refuted any valid point made by anyone else with generally the same reply. All i'm go to say is just think that there might be other explanations to these events other than Z0MG MACROER ZOMG HES MINING SUICIDE BAN PLIX! (oh and with regard to the complexing, yeah people in 0.0 do run complexes and mine ores for isk. i really don't see how thats offending you tho as you're content to sit in 1.0 and complain when people mine)
Tristan Acoma	Posted - 2006.06.17 15:57:00 - [94] Originally by: Tristan Acoma The bottom line is this - either it (macroing) needs to be illegal and enforced or it needs to be legal and available to all. Simple as that. All other arguments about macroing are silly - if you make it legal, more players would very likely buy macroing alts (more subscriptions), problem solved. If you enforce it, no more complaints OR rules that remain unenforced - of course there would be a glut of charachter sales with chars named ("Xenon88" and "Maker95483xx8245") The question I really have is are all of those "Forumula" miners (all same age, same setup, etc) not really macros? I.E. farmers who are more or less really "playing" the game? Nothing illegal about controlling 9 alts at the same time as long as you're not using a macro according to the rules (is there?)
Himo Amasacia	Posted - 2006.06.17 16:08:00 - [95] if you are a lawyer, no. But selling the esk generated by such actuvity via ebay is a violation of the Eula.
Quebber	Posted - 2006.06.17 16:21:00 - [96] Why dont the clever people at CCP create a programme which scans your computer for an active macro programme, if found instant ban once connect. Plus if someone activates one while in game, instant ban. Most online games out there have a simular system!
Crobain Stalker	Posted - 2006.06.17 17:46:00 - [97] one of those Cpatterson huys was in one of my miing systems... i stole some ore and his drones atackeed me.. i mananged to pop one retreiver
Lisento Slaven	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:15:00 - [98] Originally by: Dano Sarum For everyone else arguing for the sake of arguing, please don't bother. If these people are indeed legitimate miners then they have nothing to fear, from personal experience I've reported suspected macro-miners in the ZAIMETH system and had GM's reply almost immediatly and confirm my suspicions and deal with them extremely quickly. Yet I've also seen others on a regular basis around domain who block all convos, and mine in a small group with the same character names / creation times / standings. Zaimeth you say? I haven't seen any there my entire time on EVE (we moved into zaimeth a month or two ago). I want to ask an old question - What would happen to EVE if selling isk for real currency was legal? Would people stop enjoying the game? --- Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE. Put in space whales!
Dano Sarum	Posted - 2006.06.17 18:27:00 - [99] Quote: Zaimeth you say? I haven't seen any there my entire time on EVE (we moved into zaimeth a month or two ago). I want to ask an old question - What would happen to EVE if selling isk for real currency was legal? Would people stop enjoying the game? Yeah, it was part of some german corp, a 3/4 man macro operation, I delete petitons however so I can't get the name, If im down that way i'll see if i can remember the corp ticker and point it out. And yes, I believe the game would become a buisness, people would loose that element of fun. Frankly do you really want random people using your entertainment as a business? (besides CCP of course).
Godar Marak	Posted - 2006.06.17 19:20:00 - [100] Originally by: Domain Diva Edited by: Domain Diva on 16/06/2006 22:05:42 CCP are fully aware of the macro 'problem'. CCP no longer investigate petitoned macroers because the sheer number of macroers infesting eve these days represents a SIGNIFICANT monthly income in subscription fees. Like has already been mentioned numerous times before, making it harder for macroers to ply their trade by making mining more interactive or by making 30-day old characters leave the sanctuary of NPC corps, makes NO FINANCIAL SENSE to CCP. Why would they want to drive away a sizeable number of their paying customer base? The ONLY thing CCP did in regards to the macro 'problem' was to make it so they where guranteed a monthly subscription fee from anyone opening up accounts soley to macro mine. They did that by removing the ability to train certain skills on trial accounts, i.e. you now have to be a PAYING customer to train skills that are needed to mine and haul. This debate has raged on for TWO years now and still NOTHING gets done about it and never will. When was the last time a macroer got banned? Give up on the macro problem. CCP have. Your post should have really been about asking CCP to legalise all macro programs so that those that want to can actually be allowed to compete against the macroers without the worry of breaking some out-dated EULA. Jesus man, do you know how annoying it is to read red letters?
TabbyT	Posted - 2006.06.18 05:45:00 - [101] If anyone is interested in stealing from macrominers, there are plenty in Esa.
Jor Azmeh	Posted - 2006.06.18 05:48:00 - [102] CCP, your GMs say they'll look into it. I've reported some of these guys before, as shown in this very thread. Tonight, I log in, and this is local Longfellow, Trowner, and Lins is one group, Lins hauls in an itty V while Longfellow and Trowner mine in covetors. the rest mine in apocs, and the hauler is hhhjjj PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO SOMETHING.
Jor Azmeh	Posted - 2006.06.18 06:10:00 - [103] Edited by: Jor Azmeh on 18/06/2006 06:13:10 gunbare > ni hao Jor Azmeh > can I buy ISK from you guys? gunbare > i dongt englshi Jor Azmeh > I buy ISK? Jor Azmeh > need money Jor Azmeh > I buy 100mil? Jor Azmeh > chinese? gunbare > I do not have gunbare > yes Jor Azmeh > 我买钱? gunbare > 我晕 gunbare > 要多少啊我刚出了货 Jor Azmeh > 关于网站销售? gunbare > 你要多少啊我问问我朋友他还有吗 Jor Azmeh > 请朋友? gunbare > 我朋友还有货没出呢 gunbare > 你是中国人吗？ gunbare > You are that country Jor Azmeh > 我用翻译 gunbare > You are the American Jor Azmeh > yes gunbare > You want how many isk Jor Azmeh > 100mil Jor Azmeh > for battleship edit: after this he said he sold all his ISK yesterday and didn't have 100mil to spare.
Icarus Starkiller	Posted - 2006.06.18 06:30:00 - [104] Check the sig. Devs don't seem to give two shts about macro/pharmers as long as their accounts are paid. They can hit the sellers a lot easier, but can only do that if someone becomes a buyer and pins the seller. v v v - ISK Pharmers & Alt spies: A solution* Life is pain...anyone who says differently is selling something.
Kenz Rider	Posted - 2006.06.18 07:24:00 - [105] Originally by: Miss Overlord maya is an interesting one is he or she in any real corp or a noob corp ? Maya is in a 20 or so member pirate corp with a number of heavy hitters. They seem to have money (mostly t2 fitted), but not outrageous sums.
Harum Skarum	Posted - 2006.06.18 08:17:00 - [106] Originally by: Jor Azmeh 1) What harm do these macros do? Macros farm a massive amount of ore, sometimes refining and sometimes just selling the ore outright. For a builder this is a good thing, as the market is saturated with the ore and minerals driving the costs down to rock-bottom prices. For small corps, it rules out mining as a source of income, because neither the ore or the mineral sells for much, if any at all. Has anyone ever seen a stripped belt? I mean one completely Riskfree mining in high sec should NOT be profitable, more competition for these poor small empire mining corps is a good thing. Anyone with half a brain can make a fortune in 1.0 anyway, if the only source of income you can think of is mining scordite or veldspar you simply dont deserve the ISK. The impact on the EVE economy of MININGBOT01-10 and Small Empire Mining Corp #98732 is the same anyway, both supply lowend minerals. The only harm done here is that lazy carebears cant make 20 mil/hour mining trit in 1.0 which is great. They might actually have to use their brain now.
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.06.18 08:26:00 - [107] all we can do is keep stealing from em - dont encourage other palyers to buy ISK and just try to enjoy the game
Mrs AntiMacro	Posted - 2006.06.18 09:09:00 - [108] Edited by: Mrs AntiMacro on 18/06/2006 09:10:14 i believe that this is what the true use of your other two character slots are for. 5 kessies, w/ 4 rocket launchers each, and 6 kinetic rockets each launcher = 1mil isk 1 popped macro miner retriver and 2 strip miners = 14 mil isk the sight of 6+ toons leaving the system, in a conga line = priceless getting a pod kill on the MM, when he warps back from the belt to the station, just an extra bonus.
Dano Sarum	Posted - 2006.06.18 10:38:00 - [109] Thing is, making alts to purposely kill macro miners is seen as evading concord or some crap. Anyone else notice KFCC is dead now? I recieved this from a GM when i was asking about alts to kill macro miners and crap. Suicide alts: Illegal. We do not permit people to avoid the consequences of attacking others by using alts. However, this solely applies to people who are using disposable alts. Anyways, really a DEV post on this thread would be nice, at least pretend you're investigating the problem. Really how hard is it for you to enforce your own rules? All of the evidence presented to here can't be merely coincidence.
Major Death	Posted - 2006.06.18 11:02:00 - [110] 21 players in the same system, all Civire, all 9 days old, all flying Caracals, all running missions and all with the same style of proper name. None have Bios. All are part of an NPC corp. All have the same style of name, looks like someone lifted them from the telephone directory, and didn't check that some of them were female names. Now try and explain this in any other way than an ISK farming scam?
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.06.18 11:02:00 - [111] lets pretend they give a hoot about the issues.
Mrs AntiMacro	Posted - 2006.06.18 11:51:00 - [112] Originally by: Dano Sarum Edited by: Dano Sarum on 18/06/2006 10:55:41 Thing is, making alts to purposely kill macro miners is seen as evading concord or some crap. Anyone else notice KFCC is dead now? Private correspondance or whatever between you and a GM isn't allowed to be publically posted or whatever according to the rules, so due to that I dont know if I can quote what i was told about suicide alts. Needless to say, I DO advise people NOT to USE SUICIDE kessies on ALTS. Anyways, really a DEV post on this thread would be nice, at least pretend you're investigating the problem. Really how hard is it for you to enforce your own rules? All of the evidence presented to here can't be merely coincidence.
Steno	Posted - 2006.06.18 13:00:00 - [113] Edited by: Steno on 18/06/2006 13:02:05 bahh stupid forums :)
Steno	Posted - 2006.06.18 13:02:00 - [114] Originally by: Dirtball As someone who doesnt mine I support macros cause it drives the prices of ships down because minerals cost less allowing more people to pvp which is what makes eve fun. If you dont like people who macro mine go shoot npcs and laugh all the way to the factory when you buy your mins for cheap. as someone who mines all day and likes to manufacture i like the rat farmers. it makes the named modules much cheaper for us. allowing more people to mine and manufacture which makes eve fun
Loyal Servant	Posted - 2006.06.18 19:22:00 - [115] Thing that kills me about all this mess is that petitions do nothing. I understand that 10,000 macro miners = $150,000 us a month BUT What happens when enough players start to revolt and the negative publicity starts hitting websites that eve is overrun with farmers? It already is starting to happen.
Arcticblue2	Posted - 2006.06.18 19:48:00 - [116] Well sadly it seems like CCP won't do anything to combat Macromining, they claim they do but we do not see the fruits of that work. As one said here, and I suspect that being the truth... all CCP did was to make sure that atleast the macrominers had to pay for their accounts. One thing that I got to ask, anyone knows if it is not against EULA to protect macrominers ??? have come to my ears that the corp Royal Horse Guard does protect macrominers .. that sounds like a bannable offence. Anyone can answer that ?. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Suze'Rain	Posted - 2006.06.18 20:15:00 - [117] Originally by: Arcticblue2 As one said here, and I suspect that being the truth... all CCP did was to make sure that atleast the macrominers had to pay for their accounts. they failed. the squads of civrie in caracals that I've mentioned in Oichiya, and the 21 farmers using the same pattern (I suspect the samer operator) that Major Death described are all trial accounts. CCP does'nt get a penny from those accounts.
Crobain Stalker	Posted - 2006.06.18 20:22:00 - [118] could a channel be set up so that sightings of macroers could instantly be communicated to everyone, and those of us who enjoy stealing ore from macroers could flood in.. the farmers would wonder why all of a sudden it was so much harder to mine.. 24/7 under attack, wherever they go!
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.06.18 20:48:00 - [119] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 18/06/2006 20:49:35 Originally by: Tehyarec Originally by: Maya Rkell How do you know they are macro miners? What evidence do you have? He presented plenty. You can't really prove it more than that other than by actually being at the computer those characters are being run at. DING! You can't prove it, CCP can. CCP haven't banned them. Telling, isn't it! Take people trying to accuse me like Miss Overload, who fits the profile for a macro'er, YOU CLAIM, precisely. What are you doing about her? Quebber, because a program to scan your computer has ALL sorts of legal implications, would require EULA changes, would probably STILL be illegal in some places and would be blocked by programs like process protectors. The Sony Rootkit comes to mind if you try and hide it too... Jor Azmeh "after this he said he sold all his ISK yesterday and didn't have 100mil to spare." LOG. If you can have the logs of the first bit, you can provide logs of that too. Without ANY break in the conversaiton. Because no, I don't believe you without evidence. Kenz Rider, we're not pirates, we run Empire wars on mid-sized alliances.
Skian Mhor	Posted - 2006.06.18 20:54:00 - [120] Quote: DING! You can't prove it, CCP can. CCP haven't banned them. Telling, isn't it! So, maya.... the squads of a dozen or more civrie, mentioned in posts earlier, by several people. all created within 5 minutes of each other. all in caracals. all using identical setups if you use passive scanners. that's just "co-incidence"? what, exactly are these types, in your mind if they're not isk farmers? teams of very eager friends who happen to all create named from phonebooks and are so dosed up on speed that they only sleep during downtime? yeah. right. if it got feathers, walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's likely... a duck. and the isk farmers and macro-miners certainly look like ducks to the rest of us with a brain cell to work it out.

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