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Mark A
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Posted - 2003.09.26 22:34:00 -
[1]
In one of the recent CSM chatlogs, one of the devs was of the opinion that player stations should cost something in the region of 500 *billion* isk.
This seems a ludicrous figure. Let's do the math:
- There are on average around 5000 players online at any one time. Let's say this equates to around 20,000 active players, rotating throughout the day. So that's 25M isk for each and every player in the entire game to build *one* player station.
- If you have a corp of 100 players, that's 5 billion isk *each* for a station.
- Let's say a sweet bist/crok asteroid belt holds about 200M in mineral wealth, you'd have to mine out 2,500 of them to build a single station.
And then a fleet can come along and blow it up maybe.
I was going to make the argument that while its good that things should cost a lot so it really matters when you lose them (one of the things that makes EVE more engrossing than other games) they shouldn't be so expensive that you simply can't afford to put them at risk. That will just discourage anyone from ever getting into conflict, which is the fun part after all.
However these figures are so ridiculously out of range we're not even in the ballpark, IMHO.
Thoughts?
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Lurk
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Posted - 2003.09.26 23:46:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Lurk on 27/09/2003 00:04:24
There will be different sizes of stations i guess, maybe the biggest supreme uber station will cost like 500,000,000,000 isk.
edit: 
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.09.26 23:53:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
There will be different sizes of stations i guess, maybe the biggest supreme uber station will cost like 500,000,000 isk.
500,000,000,000 
500 bil is way too much, no corp would "waste" that on a station even in 2 years, at least that's what I think.
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Mustafa Ken'Yova
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Posted - 2003.09.27 04:43:00 -
[4]
500 billion is a tad ludicrous...I'm sure many would agree....make the station more like 50 billion and it would probably work better. If you think about it, battleships, structures that are incredibly massive on a scale of anything human kind has ever imagined, cost 100 million isk. If the isk is similar in anyway to world currency today, this equate a battleship to a few top of the line fighter jets. (Yes I know its silly to compare currency to isk but still, think about it)
On that note, since prices are much lower then real life, having something so grossly out of whack with other items in the game (500 billion) just is not balanced. Once again, I'm sure many would agree with me. I think 50 billion would be more then enough to make corporations be very careful with that investment and at the same time it would keep stations rare enough so every corp does not own one.
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Sphalerite
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Posted - 2003.09.27 07:13:00 -
[5]
At that price, CCP could just sell a station on ebay every two months and pay for everybody's subscription
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2003.09.27 10:11:00 -
[6]
Did you also miss the bit where they said about leasing / bank loans to build such a thing?
Thus making it quite "gettable", if not affordable?
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zincol
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Posted - 2003.09.27 10:21:00 -
[7]
makes game game intresting w00t
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.09.27 10:41:00 -
[8]
Quote:
Did you also miss the bit where they said about leasing / bank loans to build such a thing?
Thus making it quite "gettable", if not affordable?
There's a weird feeling surrounding that. What about getting a 1000 billion loan and deleting your char? Even getting a new account? Must be impossible somehow.
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Jonask'ri
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Posted - 2003.09.27 11:49:00 -
[9]
I think Mortage would be a better term as opposed to loan. The bank loans you the balance on what you need to build the station...
If you don't keep up with your payments, bank confiscates the station ;P
Simple. Just like borrowing to buy a house.
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Jonask'ri > Signature time "Redwolf - In Search of C_ck" |
Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2003.09.27 13:09:00 -
[10]
Lets see, stations are going to be expensive so ever Mutt and Jeff corp can't afford one. Primarily, pirate corps.
Pirate corps THINK they'll be raiding these stations, when THEIR going to be the targets of the owners of the stations.
It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Mark A
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Posted - 2003.09.27 22:11:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Quote:
Did you also miss the bit where they said about leasing / bank loans to build such a thing?
Thus making it quite "gettable", if not affordable?
There's a weird feeling surrounding that. What about getting a 1000 billion loan and deleting your char? Even getting a new account? Must be impossible somehow.
Yes, hard to see how that could work. Other problems include who you are prepared to give a "mortgage" to, what if they default, what if the station gets destroyed, how does the insurance work, who is actually liable in the end, can you rent as well as buy, what happens if an enemy captures it, etc.
All gets rather complicated, and not in the fun way.
I do like the idea of different levels of station, so you can buy a cheap one with just repair and recycle for instance, and perhaps a limit on how many ships can dock, then work your way up to a full NPC-style base either via trade-ins or adding on facilities and upgrades one at a time.
But whichever way you cut it, 500 billion is just silly. Even if you can take out a loan, its going mean your entire corp mining its ass off every day for years just to repay it. Again this doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me.
I'm sure it'll get worked out by the time they appear, but it doesn't inspire confidence to be so widely off the mark even at this stage.
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Roba
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Posted - 2003.09.28 08:32:00 -
[12]
Quote:
500 billion is a tad ludicrous...I'm sure many would agree....make the station more like 50 billion and it would probably work better. If you think about it, battleships, structures that are incredibly massive on a scale of anything human kind has ever imagined, cost 100 million isk. If the isk is similar in anyway to world currency today, this equate a battleship to a few top of the line fighter jets. (Yes I know its silly to compare currency to isk but still, think about it)
On that note, since prices are much lower then real life, having something so grossly out of whack with other items in the game (500 billion) just is not balanced. Once again, I'm sure many would agree with me. I think 50 billion would be more then enough to make corporations be very careful with that investment and at the same time it would keep stations rare enough so every corp does not own one.
Ummmm thats not even 100 million us dollars...
Think more on the scale of 25 super carriers.
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Mjolnir
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Posted - 2003.09.28 09:35:00 -
[13]
500billion is a tad crazy, but perhaps the dev didnt mean just isk, but rather minerals too. Its just a thought.
Maybe half that, 250 billion, or 100 billion would be a more reasonable price for a station including minerals.
Which PA character are you? |
Lanu
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Posted - 2003.09.28 12:32:00 -
[14]
*SLIK* that's much.... but what about "team-corping" like 5 mega mega corp's who mine togeter for like 1 month / 2 months in 1 region in 0.0 with like 200 players then it could work.... but still what kinda organisation would do that?...
boo
"You are most like the Cat, lazy and quiet. You aren't very exciting yet everyone notices your presence."
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Viqer Fell
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Posted - 2003.09.28 20:22:00 -
[15]
Just before you all go off at the deep end on this one, the comment was made shortly afterwards that this was a figure just picked out of the air and that it was only one persons idea of what it should cost.
I think realistically it will be nowhere near this figure unless the promises that tech II will increase income by 1000's of % as was also mentioned.
Don't panic yet Mr Mannering!
Ok, so what the hell is this Golden Ratio? |
Ezra
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Posted - 2003.09.29 00:24:00 -
[16]
Quote:
500billion is a tad crazy, but perhaps the dev didnt mean just isk, but rather minerals too. Its just a thought.
Maybe half that, 250 billion, or 100 billion would be a more reasonable price for a station including minerals.
I think he means "500 billion worth of minerals"
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Ezra Cornell
pe0n, Xanadu Corporation |
Jojin
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Posted - 2003.09.29 02:08:00 -
[17]
Just some sideline notes from previous postings:
* Stations will not be able to be destroyed.
* Stations will be corporate owned (thus the assignment of the roles as station manager etc)
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The Wretch
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Posted - 2003.09.29 05:11:00 -
[18]
500 billion isk - yeah - that tells me this game is definately going no where anytime soon.
The Wretch
Cyberdyne Systems CEO
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Qandor
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Posted - 2003.09.29 12:12:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Qandor on 29/09/2003 12:25:54
Quote:
I think he means "500 billion worth of minerals"
Oh, piece of cake then.
Let's say, just for arguments sake it was all mega and we assume a value of 10k per unit of mega. That would mean only 50 million megacyte and you would be good to go.
Or better yet let's say you would need 70 billion isk worth of each of the 7 minerals. You would then need at npc prices:
17 million Megacyte
68 million Zydrine
273 million Noxcium
1 billion Isogen
4.3 billion Mexallon
17.5 billion Pyrite
70 billion Tritanium
Ain't gonna happen.
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SavX
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Posted - 2003.09.29 19:11:00 -
[20]
Hmm, 500,000,000,000 isk.. Damn i'm only.. 499,996,000,000 down :
Did someone say 70 billion trit?! Do you know how many ships it would take to recycle to get that?
Don't Kill The Corp.. Kill the Suppliers. |
xenorx
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Posted - 2003.09.29 19:36:00 -
[21]
why would anyone pay for a station of there own when you can use any of hundreds for free?
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Cain Calzon
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Posted - 2003.09.29 21:30:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Cain Calzon on 29/09/2003 21:31:17
because the stations out there arent free. it costs money to rent an office, reprocess, repair, rent factory slots, rent research slots, etc.
but later the station might be connected to the regions, player own regions with there own npc security forces and so on
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.09.30 12:53:00 -
[23]
Quote:
why would anyone pay for a station of there own when you can use any of hundreds for free?
Where people *want* stations, there are none (ie. waaaaay way out towards the edges of the 'verse)
So they will build station out near some quality ore fields, and thus be able to make money quicker, rather than haul it 30 hops to a station.
.
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.09.30 13:24:00 -
[24]
Just wait till player stations come online. Expect a dramatic rise in rental fees for empire stations...
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mk ultra
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Posted - 2003.09.30 14:55:00 -
[25]
lol i just took a look at ebay just for the fun of it . 50,000,000 isks can sell for 100(USD)$$$.If you do a lill math a station worth 500 billions would be worth 1 million (USD)
500,000,000,000/50,000,000=10000 X 100 = 1,000,000 US dollars :) just an observation :)
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.10.01 00:57:00 -
[26]
Quote:
lol i just took a look at ebay just for the fun of it . 50,000,000 isks can sell for 100(USD)$$$.If you do a lill math a station worth 500 billions would be worth 1 million (USD)
500,000,000,000/50,000,000=10000 X 100 = 1,000,000 US dollars :) just an observation :)
lol thats why this is insane, no game has had anything probably more then 1k real money worth... and hmm by that math... then 1 digital thing in this game would be 1 mill of real money LOL 
hmm if it was 100billion i would say its ok... that hsould be the top of hte line station, then every steop it could be about 5-20billion cheaper 
the smallest station should be around 50-25billion maybe... that would be with limited slots offices etc...
CCP needs to make it so that there are many levels and depending on the corps or groups of corps they will pick a station and make it there goal to reach...
it would be cool if different player stations would have limits.... like the cheapest ones could only dock cruiser size ships? and or maybe battleship size?
so mega corps to dock anything bigger would need a bigger and more expennsive station 
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Naran Darkmood
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Posted - 2003.10.01 12:32:00 -
[27]
[quote
hmm if it was 100billion i would say its ok... that hsould be the top of hte line station, then every steop it could be about 5-20billion cheaper
the smallest station should be around 50-25billion maybe... that would be with limited slots offices etc...
CCP needs to make it so that there are many levels and depending on the corps or groups of corps they will pick a station and make it there goal to reach...
quote]
I huess it will be around that somewhere. But then, the largest player station should not be any larger than the npc ones regarding factory/lab slots.
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StarLite
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Posted - 2003.10.01 13:14:00 -
[28]
even still 50 BIL would be outragious for ANY corp with less then 100 members.
Im in a corp with 20 members and I know were having trouble gettin 600 mil together for a Bship BP.
I mean for a 20 player corp it would be IMPOSSIBLE to own a 50 billion station. This would mean only the mega-corps could get one.
Only the Mega-corps would be able to be based in deep space.
Only the mega-corps can really mine bist/ark/whetever.
Only the Mega-corps will survive.
Just my 0,02 Isk
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Scragg
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Posted - 2003.10.01 13:36:00 -
[29]
If they make them uber expensive then they better make them uber tough as well. Like it should take a fleet of a few hundred ships pounding on it for an hour or two with torpedos and cruise missiles to kill it.
Scragg, Tyrell Corporation
Vice-Director Military Operations |
Robomonkey
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Posted - 2003.10.01 15:15:00 -
[30]
I think a basic station with no services, no offices, no corp hangers, so essentially somewhere you can just dock and use a personal hanger should cost around 10 billion.
I then think that shell should have small medium and large expansion slots available, of which you can fill them with whatever modules you like according to the expansion slot size.
So for example, if you have 4 medium slots available, you can fit 4 lab modules giving you 120 (or whatever) lab slots, but doing this would mean you cannot have any factories.
These small medium and large slot modules would then be priced at 10Bn, 20bn, 40bn.
This would make it accessible to small corps and also very interesting. Otherwise you build your station, then when you can afford it you add a lab module, then a little later you add a factory etc. until you bought all the modules its just a fixed progression route.
robo
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