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Covetor skill too high?

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Sventek	Posted - 2006.08.28 19:14:00 - [31] Edited by: Sventek on 28/08/2006 19:15:14 Originally by: Archo X As for the comparison of Covetor to Hulk... At best a hulk gets 15% more than a Covetor per cycle. The real difference is the ability to tank. The Hulk is also easily able to equip two Mining Upgrade modules vs. the Covetor only being able to equip one. Also the Hulk has twice the cargo space at 8000 m3 vs. the Covetor's 4000 m3.
Skraelingz Gallente Gallente Federal Bank	Posted - 2006.08.28 20:11:00 - [32] i just find it retarded that any ship with enough miner2's can outmine a dedicated mining vessel regardless of what it is procurer even. that just does not seem right to me. -----------------------------------------------
Ezra Gallente Calista Industries	Posted - 2006.08.29 01:22:00 - [33] Originally by: Skraelingz i just find it retarded that any ship with enough miner2's can outmine a dedicated mining vessel regardless of what it is procurer even. that just does not seem right to me. Seems fine to me. Retriever - 3-4mill at worst case 2 Strip Miner IIs - another 4mill So that's 8mill for a Retriever, which can only be beat by some of the following: 7x Miner II Brutix (23-24mill) - hello carpal tunnel! 7x Miner II Megathron (90-100mill) - Not as bad as brutix, but still carpal tunnel city 8x Miner II Apoc (90-100mill) - A bit better, but still a potential wristbuster It's a specialty mining ship that can only be beaten by general purpose ships that cost 2.5 to 10 times as much as it does, and which require far more effort while actually mining. Also, for a specialist just starting the game, it takes much less time to get into a Retriever than a battleship. ------------ Ezra Cornell pe0n, Xanadu Corporation
Doriann	Posted - 2006.08.29 03:02:00 - [34] Edited by: Doriann on 29/08/2006 03:05:09 Tell me where you can get a strip miner II for 4 mil and I'll go pick them all up :) I find I end up paying about ohhh 11 mil a piece for the strip miners. In my situation the ship dosn't run 8 mil like you said, but it runs 4mil + 11mil * 2 = 26mil. I think thats more along the line of where people are seeing prices, also a retreiver is incapable of PvE and PvP while the brutix and other ships can refit and do both jobs.
Kristen Ambrais	Posted - 2006.08.29 04:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Jobie Thickburger Granted, I'd like to see the skill requirment taken down a little for Covetors, since it is such a long train for a T1 Ship (as is Itty V, but I just got that done so don't care about it anymore), But if they did that they would have to make Exumers take a LOT longer to train, and then you would run into the older players who waited 30 days griping about it because the new guys didn't have to wait, and the new guys griping because they can't train Exumers to a hulk as quickly. So what you really are asking for is CCP to lower the Covetor requirements so you can sit your ass into one sooner and dont give a damn about the Itty 5 requirement because you already got it... GTFO and earn the right to sit in a Covetor like many good miners before you did.
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.29 05:40:00 - [36] I think Ezra meant Strip Miner I's not II's. Anyways you forgot Dominix in your list Ezra. But the biggest thing you missed is that each of those other ships can be used for other purposes when not mining. Also those others ships (Specially a Dom with 375m3 drones) can handle lower sec belts 0.3-0.4. You put a Retreiver in those sames areas (where the better ORE is) and you'll be flyin' home in ya pod... Don't get me wrong I trained for a Retreiver first .... now that I'm in my Dominix getting 7%+ more yield and safely mining in lower sec space, I don't know why I did in the first place. Specially as a new player. ___________________ Custom banner? Click above or EVEmail
Erif Nosra Gallente Missions Mining And Manufacture	Posted - 2006.08.29 13:04:00 - [37] The retriever is pathetic as a mining ship its meant to be a dedicated mining vessel yet its almost outmined by other non mining ships. This is silly. I have a retriever but im not going to bother going to covetor ill stick to my multipurpose domi.
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2006.09.06 05:23:00 - [38] Edited by: Kalixa Hihro on 06/09/2006 05:23:40 Originally by: Gabby05 Edited by: Gabby05 on 18/06/2006 15:07:24 Covetors cost about 30mil at a guess, exumers cost 200-450mil. Least when you have your covetor you can mine and mine and mine more to get as much isk to pay for an exumer by the time you have the isk you might have gotten the exumer skill up to lvl 5. My alt won't be able to afford flying a hulk for a long time, but my alt's exhumers 5 skill will finish in 4 days. PvP... /----------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong.
Temppist	Posted - 2006.09.06 07:29:00 - [39] I think the skills are fine for the barges, but........ I believe they need a BOOST! From the Procurer all the way to the Hulk. They all need some resizing to make them better, also the smallest Barge/Exhumers should have atleast 2 miners, not just one and be able to have 5 light drones (25m3). This means the ships need to be boosted in size also. Why is a BARGE only 10k volume? The smallest ones are frigate size, how is that a barge? The barges should all be 250k and bigger (sized like the larges ones) with huge cargo bays and slow as dirt! They are a barge! The tech2 (Exhumers) could get bigger and speed bonus for being tech 2 to off set the penialty for flying a mobil platform. This would make them better than a BC or battleship for mining and with the ability to have more drones have some protection (lvl1=25m3, lvl2=50m3, lvl3=75m3) Just my .02 ISK
Sachloc Vehemont	Posted - 2006.09.06 10:40:00 - [40] Originally by: Rumbaar Mine 4 Astro 4 Barge 3 Retreiver with CPU Upgrade & Mining Upgrade (540 X 1.20 X 1.20 X 1.09 X 1.05)X 2 / 3 = 593.3088 per min Dominix with CPU Upgrades & 4 X Mining Upgrade (60 X 1.20 X 1.20 X 1.05 X 1.05 X 1.05 X 1.05) X 6 = 630.11844 compare this minimum skill setup to a maximum setup (without moving to Covetor) Retriever with CPU Upgrade & Mining Upgrade & T2 Strip Miners & T2 crystals Mining V Astrogeology V Mining Barge IV (360 X 1.75 X 1.25 X 1.25 X 1.12 X 1.05)X 2 / 3 = 771.75 per min Dominix with CPU Upgrades & 4 X Mining Upgrade (60 X 1.25 X 1.25 X 1.05 X 1.05 X 1.05 X 1.05) X 6 = 651.7110403125
Korovyov Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.09.06 11:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Jobie Thickburger Remember people, barges Pre-date Battlecruisers, and I think they may even predate Miner IIs, but not sure on that one. Back in the day, when they were new, a Proc would be a decent mining ship for a Galante or Amarr pilot, since they don't have a mining cruiser like the Caldari and Matari. Barges pre-date Battlecruisers by like, a month or two. Miner II's predate barges by at least six months - mining apocs were all the rage. And at the time that's all they were good for before the big laser buff and the age if 1-shot kill armageddons . Also, IIRC, the "mining cruiser" bonus change wasn't until after barges were released, and they were only given to Minmatar and Caldari because the Gallante have the Thorax and Megathron (best mining cruiser and second best mining BS), and the Amarr had the Apoc and Arma (First and third best mining BSes). And when barges came out... people were complaining then about needing industry V and another level V just to outmine the two best mining BSes. ***
Moonbeam Stalker	Posted - 2006.09.06 15:09:00 - [42] i think hulk should take exhumer lvl5 TBH
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2006.09.07 07:06:00 - [43] Originally by: Aarin Wrath Just training up for a Covetor and quite frankly its gonna take like a month for me to get it. As it should. Originally by: Aarin Wrath Now what i am wondering is why it requires Barge V since its a T1 ship. All T2 ships (as far as i can tell) require <ship type> lvl V. So why does a T1 ship need skills normally associated with T2? Perhaps you have never seen the skills for Iteron 5. Also all capital ships (including freighters) require level 5 skills, and are all tech 1. Plenty of tech 1 ships need a level 5 skill. Originally by: Aarin Wrath Another wierd thing I noticed, is once you get the skills for a covetor (Astro V and Barge V), you can easily jump to T2 Barges (exhumes) since the skil req. for Exhumers is ... well ... Barge V and astro V. Not strange at all. There are far more people that have trained exhumers than actually own one. The current cost of them is a bigger hurdle than the skill Originally by: Aarin Wrath Am I loosing my mind or does this not make sense? Don't know, was your mind tight before that it can be loose now? Losing your mind maybe though.
Emma Royd Path of Light	Posted - 2006.09.07 17:02:00 - [44] While on some points I agree with Aarin about the apparent imbalance of skills req to ship ability, there are many other skills that need looking at too, why do general ore-specific processing skills take quite a short time, yet Ice Processing takes ages in comparison, yet it can be easily mined. I think the barges could do with an overhaul as the Proc is imho a waste of time, the retreiver could do with a slightly bigger cargo hold as you can max it out in 1 cycle depending on your skill level and those in your gang, I've not got the skills yet for a Covetor, and at the moment can't really spare 41 days to train it, but in 42 days I can fly a hulk, so I do think there is something slightly wrong, but if you've got the 500mil for the hulk and are prepared to take the risk of getting it wiped out long before the investment has paid for itself, then good luck to you :) After speaking to a Hulk Pilot the main thing he complains about is the lack of drone space available to protect the ship, 5 med drones to protect 500mil is not something I would fancy, it's something you'd need to mine in Higher sec or with a good guard.
Archo X Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.07 21:42:00 - [45] Originally by: Emma Royd While on some points I agree with Aarin about the apparent imbalance of skills req to ship ability, there are many other skills that need looking at too, why do general ore-specific processing skills take quite a short time, yet Ice Processing takes ages in comparison, yet it can be easily mined. I think the barges could do with an overhaul as the Proc is imho a waste of time, the retreiver could do with a slightly bigger cargo hold as you can max it out in 1 cycle depending on your skill level and those in your gang, I've not got the skills yet for a Covetor, and at the moment can't really spare 41 days to train it, but in 42 days I can fly a hulk, so I do think there is something slightly wrong, but if you've got the 500mil for the hulk and are prepared to take the risk of getting it wiped out long before the investment has paid for itself, then good luck to you :) After speaking to a Hulk Pilot the main thing he complains about is the lack of drone space available to protect the ship, 5 med drones to protect 500mil is not something I would fancy, it's something you'd need to mine in Higher sec or with a good guard. I agree, Ice proc skills suck. That's even hwine-worthy, especially considering that POS get 100% refine on ice there is little reason to spend any time training it at all (yet for some stupid reason I have it trained). As for the Hulk... Yes, it takes a few more hours and you get 3% more ore for it. Yay! Since most people will take Exhumers to lvl 3 or 4 it is 9-12% better. Hardly worth weeks of training. From Retriever to Covetor the gain is 50%. That's whay it takes so long. The biggest benifit to a Hulk IMHO is the ability to tank most 0.0 spawns. A covetor can do it with a tank ship there. 5x T2 medium drones can put a hurt on most things too. I've seen 0.0 mining ops with 3-4 Hulks, about 10 Covetors, and a handful of retrivers gives 75 T2 medium drones. That is enough to take out an 0.0 spawn plus most unluky PvPers. Hell, with the lag-storm that would create it might even work as a decent blob gang :D /me wants 5% of the spoils of any mining barge style gate camps. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes I got h4xXx0rzed!!!!11!!on3!!!111!1el3ventEEn!!!11 N3RF teh modz!!!
Lurtz Caldari Gunrunners and Gamblers	Posted - 2006.09.09 13:45:00 - [46] Originally by: Archo X Originally by: Emma Royd While on some points I agree with Aarin about the apparent imbalance of skills req to ship ability, there are many other skills that need looking at too, why do general ore-specific processing skills take quite a short time, yet Ice Processing takes ages in comparison, yet it can be easily mined. I think the barges could do with an overhaul as the Proc is imho a waste of time, the retreiver could do with a slightly bigger cargo hold as you can max it out in 1 cycle depending on your skill level and those in your gang, I've not got the skills yet for a Covetor, and at the moment can't really spare 41 days to train it, but in 42 days I can fly a hulk, so I do think there is something slightly wrong, but if you've got the 500mil for the hulk and are prepared to take the risk of getting it wiped out long before the investment has paid for itself, then good luck to you :) After speaking to a Hulk Pilot the main thing he complains about is the lack of drone space available to protect the ship, 5 med drones to protect 500mil is not something I would fancy, it's something you'd need to mine in Higher sec or with a good guard. I agree, Ice proc skills suck. That's even hwine-worthy, especially considering that POS get 100% refine on ice there is little reason to spend any time training it at all (yet for some stupid reason I have it trained). As for the Hulk... Yes, it takes a few more hours and you get 3% more ore for it. Yay! Since most people will take Exhumers to lvl 3 or 4 it is 9-12% better. Hardly worth weeks of training. From Retriever to Covetor the gain is 50%. That's whay it takes so long. The biggest benifit to a Hulk IMHO is the ability to tank most 0.0 spawns. A covetor can do it with a tank ship there. 5x T2 medium drones can put a hurt on most things too. I've seen 0.0 mining ops with 3-4 Hulks, about 10 Covetors, and a handful of retrivers gives 75 T2 medium drones. That is enough to take out an 0.0 spawn plus most unluky PvPers. Hell, with the lag-storm that would create it might even work as a decent blob gang :D /me wants 5% of the spoils of any mining barge style gate camps. Hulk also has another advantage over covetor, it can fit 2 mining laser upgrades
abraheam Caldari Emerald Empire Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.10 14:06:00 - [47] The skills are fine where they are for a covetor. If mining is truly a specialisation then it should take some invested time. There is no way that someone should be able to invest a couple weeks and be able to mine the samed as a hard core miner. If you really like to mine industrial 5(for a freightor), mining barge 5, and astrogeology 5 are not that long. These skills actually make industrialists valuable to an organisation. It would be a diservice to cut them off at the knees.

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