| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
0
   |
Posted - 2011.11.19 00:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey, was wondering if i could get some expert opinions on factory planets.
I've been doing PI for quite some time now, and have amassed a sizeable amount of P1 material. My attempts to convert this amount from P1 to P3 is a very slow process, and i wonder if anyone has perfected a factory planet to do this easily. As it stands i have a few that have 2 launchpads, the first connecting to 10 advanced factories, and the other connects to 11. Unfortunately, this is the limit of the planets powergrid. This has allowed me to effectively dump the required resources into either launchpad, and the factories chew them up, and place the P2 back into the same launchpad the factory is connected to. Unfortunately there are 24 P2 materials, so im forced to occationally switch 3 of my factories to the ones i've been missing.
Once i've got a good amount of P2, its a simple matter of switching the factories. This works perfectly because there are 21 P3 materials, and 21 factories.
The issue im having is the correct distibution of P1 resources between the two launchpads for making the P2. As each P2 factory takes 2 seperate P1 materials combined to be created, i've been trying to work out the best arrangement, so that the resources are consumed evenly (or as evenly as possible). I've come to find that certain materials are consumed faster, depending how i arrange which factory is running which process. This in turn can make other process' stop, resulting in their secondary resource to be used by other factories, resulting in a further disparity between resources consumed. I've tried working out the "best" arrangement, but regardless i still encounter this issue.
So, does anyone have any insight into improving my existing method? Or perhaps a better system/arrangement that would improve my coversion from P1 to P2? My search of the internet has revealed little insight into factory planets, and any advice would be greatly appreciated! |
Gustoviana
Echelon Corp
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 13:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't have time right now to create an image to give you an example of a 22 factory planet producing P1 -> P2 but I'll post something later today (within 18hrs from this initial message) unless someone else helps you out first.
|
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
370
|
Posted - 2011.11.19 14:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
The two general setups for P1->P2, or P2->P3 with CCU4 skill are:
(3) LPs, each with (6) AIFs (for a total of 18)
(2) LPs, each with (10) AIFs (for a total of 20)
The 3+18 method runs for about 54-55 hours before needing to be refilled, the 2+20 runs for about 36 hours.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Colony_Management#Barren_Planet_.28P2.2FP3_Factories.29
There's also a P1->P3 setup that I've been playing around with which is (2) LPs and (20) AIFs (or 25 with CCU5). Primary advantage of the P1->P3 setup is that it avoids the import/export tax on the P2 interim product. Right now, tariffs paid on P2 are rather tiny, but if P2 tariffs were put in line with the other tariffs then it would make more sense to go straight from P1 to P3. |
Gravitas Moque
Gamers Corner
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.21 10:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
man, wish I'd been as neat as that image, Gustoviana - I went for a star formation, but I use more, and longer, links 
may have to do some re-jigging at some point, but now that I have things running and working, I'm loathe to touch it. |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
Une Pour Tous
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.21 15:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
My (partial) setup:
Extract+P1
P2
P3+P4 |
Markata Lazair
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.21 20:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am pretty lazy, so I can't say this is optimized, but I put 4 x 13,100 P1 materials in (2 in each launch pad), and after a day and a half or so, a bunch of robotics come out the other end :).
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s42/Trainwreck20/20110131044756.jpg |
tengen san
Triton-TC
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.22 00:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Any which way, but make sure you do it in high sec. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 20:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Many thanks for your replies. My extensive research, and lvl 5 planet management, allowed me to create the "perfect" factory planet. Has 24 advanced factories, allowing me to dump all the P1 into the launchpad, and it all gets converted into another launchpad. The factories just need to then be changed to convert P2 to P3, and shift all the finished components back into the central pad, and hey presto, it repeats.
Factory Planet |
Jin Jurayle
NOMAD.
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.23 21:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Just wanted to share the setup I have for producing Integrity Response Drones from P1 inputs.
With CCU 4 it has the capacity to produce 18 P4s. It's not the speediest setup but all I have to do is just drop the P1s and wait for the P4s at the other end.
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1yBTs1eeuENjDuqcswKtuLXeEWWtdYkxh6TFFVGD3-Os/edit?hl=en_US |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
391
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 05:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
If your setup requires changing schematics daily or every other day or fiddling with the colony twice a day just to get some sort of optimal throughput - you're going to burn yourself out within 2-6 weeks. The profits (except maybe for P4) are just not that good that it's worth spending 15-30 minutes per day reworking schematics on a bunch of factories.
Import inputs, have everything configured to route automatically, export outputs. Less work, less clicks, more time to tend to other business.
Which is why I prefer a 20 or 25 AIF setup. Each line of (5) AIFs operates independently. Four of the AIFs in each line produce P2, with the fifth producing P3. Duplicate for as many lines as you can fit in before you run out of PG/CPU (four lines for a level IV CC). Sure, there's some spare CPU or PG to go around, but it keeps everything dead simple with no way to break things by changing the wrong schematics or forgetting to route output. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 08:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
I did a set up that would chew through P2 materials and output Robotics quite quickly on my characters doing PI. I can attest that it's a ROYAL pain in the ass to have 8 characters making robotics from P2 materials when your set up can only hold around 18 hours worth of 'stuff'. So much so that I burnt out after the 2nd week and now have all my characters PI planets sitting there doing nothing.
I really should fix that this weekend but thats not the point. The point I'm trying to say is, as Scrapyard Bob has said, set up a 'fire and forget' forget factory system and go about other things. Yes micro managing the 'optimal' factory world set up will net you the 'best' income assuming you picked the right things to make, but the amount of time you need to invest extra be it hauling more crap more often, resetting up schematics or reshuffling stuff around will cut into your fun and also profits else where if you do other ISK making activities to suppliment your daily income.
For example:
Doing my 8 characters on 5 planets (same 5 planets for all of them) it took me about 40-60 mins a day hauling, dropping off and buying any extra stuff my buy orders didn't catch. I would make about 25 mill a day profit per character I think it was with PI alone. Now if I swapped over to a more 'lazy boy' set up, just doing napkin maths, I would only need to spend 50-70 minutes every 2 days to haul, buy and drop off stuff and make 22 million a day doing so per character, saving me 30-50 minutes which I oculd use for doing an incursion (I'm im really bored), doing exploration or on my main pew pewing in WH's and generally having more fun that moving crap from point A to point B. I would gladly give up the 24 mill a day loss for the freedom granted.
So as said before...go for lazy boy set ups or long burn factory jobs with PI, your sanity will thank us later.
EDIT: Some of these layouts/set ups make me want to start it up again, but I don't want to train CCU 5 *sigh* |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
391
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 12:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Primary advantage of going P1->P3 is tax avoidance. The downside is that it only runs for 41 hours before running dry (in a 20+2 setup) and only 32 hours in a 25+2 setup. Under the current tariff scheme, the import/export taxes on P2 is a joke - but that might change in the expansion where you actually have to pay 3-15% of the P2's market value in moving it from the first planet to the other.
(The other minor advantage is that many of the P1->P3 inputs for Robotics are the same as the other P2 POS fuels that I'm making, and I don't have to stockpile Consumer Electronics.)
Primary advantage of the 18+3 setup which only go P1->P2 or P2->P3 is convenience. For the P1->P2 factory worlds, you get 54 hours of hands-off processing. For the P2->P3 step it varies a bit more depending on whether the P3 is a 2-input or 3-input recipe.
Using today's market prices: My P1->P2 (3+18) factory worlds make about 800k to 3100k ISK/day (54h capacity) in profits. My P1->P3 factory world (20+2 setup, 41h capacity), I'm only making 1700k/day. But that's because Consumer Electronics (the intermediate P2) is underwater (-10% profit for making it), otherwise it would also be up around 3M/day.
|
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 17:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yeah i've quickly realised just how click-extensive it is to change all those processors, not to mention time consuming, and i'd have to do it twice a day. So i've simply made that my P1 > P2 planet, and set up a similar planet but with only 21 processors for the P2 > P3 stage. Means i can leave them all as they are and simply move them from one planet to another.
Spent me ages to work out all the math of how much to stick in them so they're consumed evenally, as things like water, bacteria and reactive metal are consumed faster, as they are needed in more of the processors, but i finally worked it out so that it does a 12hour run, meaning i just need to fill it up twice a day.
Did the same for the P2 > P3 planet, tho again the maths was a pain because of all the different processors using different amount of materials (3 resources are needed once, 18 are needed twice, and 3 are needed three times).
But now its all setup, and just needs me to plonk more resources in twice a day.  |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
391
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 17:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Hint - make a spreadsheet where you plug in how empty the LPs are, and it tells you how many units of each input to import to fill up the LP without leaving any dregs behind.
For the 18+3 setup making P1->P2, if I have 10000 m3 free in each LP, then I need to import Floor(5000 m3 / (0.38 * 40 * 6)) * (40*6) to each of those LPs. Which works out to 12960 of each P1 - imported to each of the 3 LPs on the planet. So when I undock in my orca, I'm carrying
12960 + 12960 + 12960 of P1 input #1
12960 + 12960 + 12960 of P1 input #2
If I only have 6000 m3 free in each of the (3) LPs, then I import:
Floor(3000 m3 / (0.38 * 40 * 6)) * (40*6) = 7680 of each P1 to each LP
Basically, you always work in multiples of (40 * # of AIFs) for P1 inputs. |
Gustoviana
Echelon Corp
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 21:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:Hint - make a spreadsheet where you plug in how empty the LPs are, and it tells you how many units of each input to import to fill up the LP without leaving any dregs behind.
For the 18+3 setup making P1->P2, if I have 10000 m3 free in each LP, then I need to import Floor(5000 m3 / (0.38 * 40 * 6)) * (40*6) to each of those LPs. Which works out to 12960 of each P1 - imported to each of the 3 LPs on the planet. So when I undock in my orca, I'm carrying
12960 + 12960 + 12960 of P1 input #1
12960 + 12960 + 12960 of P1 input #2
If I only have 6000 m3 free in each of the (3) LPs, then I import:
Floor(3000 m3 / (0.38 * 40 * 6)) * (40*6) = 7680 of each P1 to each LP
Basically, you always work in multiples of (40 * # of AIFs) for P1 inputs.
And another very quick and dirty trick to use to count how much you need to stock up on P1 -> P2, is each P2 factory takes (almost) 1000 P1 product per day. So if you have 18 P2 factories, in a 24 hour period, you are going to go through (almost) 18000 P1.
Gusto
|
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.24 22:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ah damn, i was all excited for the new patch, now i'm completely opposite. Looks like these new player owned custom offices are just going to lead to big alliances dominating all the PI.
Am i right in assuming people are going to go around blowing them all up just for the hell of it? |
tengen san
Triton-TC
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 15:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Ah damn, i was all excited for the new patch, now i'm completely opposite. Looks like these new player owned custom offices are just going to lead to big alliances dominating all the PI.
Am i right in assuming people are going to go around blowing them all up just for the hell of it?
Possible,but also possible they will get tired of it after a while. Low sec system near to 0.0. will be attracted to get under control so will low sec systems near high sec rather commonly under attack. (Kill mail)
But letGÇÖs assume you find a system you can do it rather undisturbed, you will have to bring down 1 bill Isk on POCO's to set up a production circle P1 GÇôP4.
Recommendation:
1.Get your base resources (P1) from Low sec, but place any further production to High sec.
2.Join a WH Corp
3.Join a 0.0. Corp
4.Arrange with other player corporations to split CO expense.(including a sort of defense)
5.Stay in Hig sec. and get your base materials from the market.
The switch to POCO certainly has risen the risk factor ./. to reward, but than again the game is basically designed to interact with the player community. The disadvantages for single player will continue to rise over the time.
In about a months or so we will have a mutch better picture on it. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 22:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
How I see it, Low Sec has had the risk go way up and the reward has been static. The risks have been hashed over many times all over the place. To counter act some of this risk someone doing low sec extraction would need to be in a corp that actively defends either their POCO's or the Interbus CO's on a 23/7 rotation, which is totally nonviable. People would get bored, find something more interesting to do or just bugger off back to high sec to do their PI stuff.
As it stands now, if your not a null sec dweller in Sov space, you can almost kiss any dreams of extracting goods from any planet for any reasonable length of time. We will find a lot of the low sec extracting players and their alts switch to pure factory worlds in high sec (or give up PI totally cos it's not worth the effort) which will result in a hike in all PI related materials as the supply for the basic materials gets tighter but demand rises.
Now I don't have any solid ideas on how to counter act this but I do have a thought on how to boost the reward for doing low sec extraction to balance out the risk of not being able to get your product off world in a reasonable time frame at a reasonable cost.
The idea is simple. Boost planets resource amounts by 10% with the crucible expansion and also look into concentrating resources into better hot spots or concentrations. That way whilst your risk has gone up by using a low sec world to extract the rewards have also gone up slightly as a compensation. As a side benefit it would result in more tax being paid to POCO's which would help making them have a much better ROI. It would also help in stabilizing the market should a large amount of people stop extracting come the new patch, or are unable to due t having the CO blown up and no replacement found.
|
tengen san
Triton-TC
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 23:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thank you very much for your deeper consiterations. |
tengen san
Triton-TC
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 23:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
After Nov 29 they do bug fixing and beside of it, close to ChristmasGǪ., they get drunk as they have earned it. ( with about 3 hr of day light there isnGÇÖt much else you can do anyway) Year comes to close and after the CSM summit in early December there itGÇÖs anything to do anyway. Enjoy the game |
pmchem
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2011.11.26 02:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alisarina wrote:To counter act some of this risk someone doing low sec extraction would need to be in a corp that actively defends either their POCO's or the Interbus CO's on a 23/7 rotation, which is totally nonviable.
This not the case. POCOs have a reinforcement timer which the owner can set to a specific preferred time when they would like to defend. Consider it a mini version of how nullsec people have to be concerned about defending POS, stations, etc. You just wait for the POCO to be reinforced and then defend it when it comes out of reinforced. |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2011.11.26 02:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
yes thats true about the POCO having a reinforcement timer where you can select a 2 hour priod when the POCO comes out of reinforced which can be set by the owners. However if it is already reinforced due to being attacked when your offline, you cannot modify the timer to a better time. However you can set it to be favorable when you set it up also.
Also I was saying, if a party wants the POCO dead, no real amount of defending will prevent it from being popped as everyone can see the approx time it comes out and fleet accordingly, should they be bothered.
However talking about POCO's in a factory planet thread is a kinda moot point as most factory planets are in high sec, usually within 10 jumps max of jita or other hub, thus are all owned by CONCORD and thus un-moveable. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 00:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
My main concern is how this effects people living in wormholes. I see alot of talk about how its going to change the low/null sec PI, but little about how its going to have a rollover effect in wormholes.
My bet, people are going to be blowing them up just for the hell of it. And there'd be little incentive to build your own after that, as they'd be just as vunerable, and regardless, taxing PI isnt really a viable option in a wh, as the people who generally do PI there are going to be the corp/alliance that has a home there.
In other words, this is going to be a right pain in the ass. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
171
|
Posted - 2011.11.27 13:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:My bet, people are going to be blowing them up just for the hell of it. And there'd be little incentive to build your own after that, as they'd be just as vunerable, and regardless, taxing PI isnt really a viable option in a wh, as the people who generally do PI there are going to be the corp/alliance that has a home there.
Reinforcement timers again. After you reinforce it, you need to spend 24-36 hours in the wormhole until it comes out. It's a serious time investment for dubious reward. |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
Une Pour Tous
7
|
Posted - 2011.11.28 15:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ok, i did my homework on Sisi.
I could manage to build a P3+P4 production planet that runs at 100% 24/7
You need to resupply every day.
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5657/p3p4sisi.png
The two lanchpads have no links between them, you can add one to balance the available storage |
Alisarina
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 01:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
I've seen those set ups before somewhere, possibly tailored to only having CCU 4 and not 5 that you have with a slight reduction in output. It's a solid way to do it and how I used to do it till i messed around and got one that works better for what I'm making. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
410
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 03:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
P1 to P3 on a single planet with CCU4. With CCU5, I think you can add a 5th production chain.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Colony_Management#Barren_Planet_.28P1_to_P3_Factories.29
Load (2) P1s into the left LP, load the other (2) P1s into the right LP. Come back in about 40 hours (with the 20 AIF setup, otherwise about 32 hours with the 25 AIF setup). |
Esunisen
Les Tueurs de Killer
Une Pour Tous
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 20:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Oh well, taxes just got an outrageous increase.
This is for high sec, with Concord 10% rate (10% of what ???)
RAW : 0.5 isk/u
P1 : 50 isk/u
P2: 900 isk/u
P3: 7000 isk/u
P4: 135000 isk/u
Prices gonna be funny in few days 
I feel like not playing this game anymore, would cost too much to rebuild everything to lower the taxes
|
Linka Romanov
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 20:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Esunisen wrote:Oh well, taxes just got an outrageous increase. This is for high sec, with Concord 10% rate (10% of what ???) RAW : 0.5 isk/u P1 : 50 isk/u P2: 900 isk/u P3: 7000 isk/u P4: 135000 isk/u Prices gonna be funny in few days I feel like not playing this game anymore, would cost too much to rebuild everything to lower the taxes
It's almost as if there's now a tangible benefit to having access to your own customs office, so that you can control the tax rates! One could even argue that this provides an incentive for leaving highsec from time to time! |
Caiyuga Onishi
Custos Lumini
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 22:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
This is gonna be interesting.. small corps / lone wolves can't run factory planets anymore, and the big ones don't want to because there are more profitable things to do in low/nullsec.
Commodity prices might DETONATE soonGäó |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |