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Homerclese
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Posted - 2006.06.20 00:02:00 -
[1]
From The Drawing Board:
 Quote:
The ability to target individual sub-systems of a ship in EVE has been something many players have wanted. Bringing more tactical choices to attacking a ship and disabling certain native ship abilities before going for the final kill (or simply going for the ransom). However, combat is far too short for this kind of tactical decision-making and of course the question remains, what sub-systems are targetable (warp drive, shield recharge, cap recharge) and when are they targetable (After shield is down? Then what happens to armor tanks? After armor is down? Are we then talking about structure tanks too?).
A Very LONG NEEDED Addition IMHO
To make this work in a fair way and to bolster the battlefield with new tactical options, I have come up with some suggestions:
Hitting a subsystem should be chance based and letĘs call that chance X.
X should be greater based on the scan-resolution*tracking/accuracy of the weapon fired according to the current mechanics of turrets/missles in EVE. Thus, a smaller ship with fast and accurate weapons would have the best chance of hitting a larger ship's subsystem.
X would decrease depending on the subsystem's/mod's slot level and shield/armor as listed below:
High Level Subsystems: High slot mods and shield generators would be the easiest to hit for fast and accurate weapons as those mods are exposed on the hull of the ship. However, since they are smaller they would be harder to hit by slower and heavier weapons.
Medium Level Subsystems: Medium slot mods, propulsion subsystems would be the next layer of defense that would decrease X. Shields would have to be severely weakened to have a chance to strike these subsystems. Since these subsystems take larger area of a ship, they would be easier to hit by larger weapons.
Low Level Subsystems: Low slot mods, cap recharge, armor repair systems, warp systems would be the last layer of defense that would be lowest form of X. Shields would have to be at or near 0 and the armor would have to be severely weakened to hit these systems. Since these systems are believed to be part of the infrastructure of the ship, these would be the easiest to hit yet require higher punch.
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Homerclese
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Posted - 2006.06.20 00:03:00 -
[2]
Ship to Ship Suggestive Cases:
Frigate VS Battleship: Frigates will have the best opportunity to knock out subsystems on the highest level. Such as weapon mods and shield systems. Yet have minimal impact on its medium and null impact on low level systems. Thus a frigate poses a threat to a battleship yet can't severely damage/disable it.
Frigate VS Cruiser: Frigates have a lower chance to knock out higher level systems yet have a chance to knock out medium systems low level systems as frigate weapons have more punch vs a cruiser supposed to a battleship. In this case, a frigate has the ability to target a subsystem of a cruiser, yet the cruiser has a much higher chance of destroying the frigate before that happens, thus a cruiser becomes an effective counter to frigs.
Frigate Vs Frigate: With little chance to damage higher level mods as they pose as small and fast moving targets, they do however have a good chance at disabling medium and low level systems.
Cruiser Vs Battleship: Cruiser weapons would have a moderate to low chance of damaging a battleship's higher level systems as they are not as precise as frigate weaponry. Moderate chance in taking out medium level systems and slight chance in taking out low level subsystems.
Cruiser Vs Cruiser: Evenly matched to take out each otherĘs mid and low level subsystems yet little chance in taking out high level systems.
Cruiser Vs Frigate: Null chance at taking out high level systems, small chance to taking out medium level systems and high chance in taking out low level systems.
Battleship VS Battleship: Very small or no chance at taking out higher level systems, small to moderate chances in taking out medium level subsystems and good chance in taking out low level subsystems provided that the shields and armor are significantly weakened.
Battleship Vs Cruiser: Null chance at taking out high level systems, moderate to small chance at taking out medium subsystems and high chance to taking out low level systems.
Battleship Vs Frigate: Null chance at taking out high level systems, small to null chance at taking out medium subsystems and moderate chance at taking out low level systems (if the battleship can hit a frigate at this rate, the frig would blow up in most cases before a subsystem is disabled in this fashion)
In conclusion, if this suggestion is considered, we would see a dramatic usefulness for smaller ships in the battlefield as well as their counters. Furthermore, larger ships would have options of targeting subsystems of similar classed ships yet not in a way that would tip the balance too far in a fight. We would see more mixed fleets, battleships with cruiser/destroyer escorts. Battlecruisers being effective mediums vs battleship escorts as well as command ships and lastly, frigates would see their place in the fleet not only as tacklers of larger ships but as scalpels taking out key systems. This broadens much more tactical options rather than victory belonging to those that have the most battleships.
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Amina Stormbringer
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Posted - 2006.06.20 01:59:00 -
[3]
Remember, modules have been programmed to have HP of the sorts, remember when you do repair how they show up with 100% health.
It wouldn't be so much as one hit knocks them out is that they are able to inflict said amount of damage that would destroy them.
Don't forget Surgical Strike skills as well.
But otherwise you set up is quite good.
And don't forget that other than mods there are other things exposes. Engines, thrusters etc etc...
They make big bangs... and they're mine... all mine! Hahahaha! |
Cygnet Lythanea
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Posted - 2006.06.20 02:15:00 -
[4]
Also, I'd say that even at zero HP the mod shouldn't be destroyed per se, but rather taken offline until repaired.
I don't think that it should be a chance based system for frigs vs BS. The size difference is enough that rigs should be able to aim at sub systems.
Non Nobis, Domine, Non Nobis, Sed Nomine Tuo Da Na Glorium |
Homerclese
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Posted - 2006.06.20 03:23:00 -
[5]
You're right they do have HP of sorts. I also agree that the mods shouldn't be destroyable per se, just knocked out. Perhaps a damage control module would reduce the damage taken and maybe perhaps repair them over time in space.
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Amina Stormbringer
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Posted - 2006.06.20 03:26:00 -
[6]
Factor in rather the fact the size of the subsystems and modules. Have you ever seen the Largest none capital ship weapons? Their as big as the frigates themselves.
They make big bangs... and they're mine... all mine! Hahahaha! |
Big Underdog
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Posted - 2006.06.20 04:03:00 -
[7]
I tend to flesh out ideas as I'm typing them. Often this means the post ends up scattered, with typos and bad grammar. forgive me 
I'm not sure that having a large % of a fleet being able to effectivly target subsystems is a good idea. I think it should be the domain of specialist ships (Covert ops anyone? Hey, they're cloaked, they have time to line thier shots). Also certain specialist weapon systems, like radiation-homing missiles. Jam *ME* will you?!
I think that more often there should be random damage (unless you want to code hit locations. good luck with that) to systems during the course of fighting. This would add a level of chaos to combat that exists in the dreaded "Real Life" but seems devoid in most MMOs. I dislike detereministic combat, especially in PvP.
RL war is full of examples. The Bismark 1-shot the Hood (powder magazine) then chased off the Prince of Wales by jamming her #2 turret (2/3s of its forward main battery strength) I know a lot of people think RL examples have no place in video games, but wether we like it or not games like this are very much World War II in space 
I'd like to reinforce the idea that modules and subsystems can be different things. Both prone to battle damage.
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2006.06.20 06:51:00 -
[8]
NO
For simple reason that ships have different tanking methods ... You made shield system vulnerable to frig attacks, while armor tank modules are not. That for example is not fair to shield tankers (btw shield tanking mods are mid slot).
See the outcry about ECM being chance based and too random. Now introducing such a system to module destruction will make it worse.
There are limits to how far you can introduce chance based mechanics into MMORPGs.
It would be nice from an RP point of view, but would screw the game imo.
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if you want peace, prepare for war ...
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Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well |
kveldulfson
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Posted - 2006.06.20 08:15:00 -
[9]
I have to say I think this entire concept is a bad idea. I do not want to see the idea of subsystem targeting coming into the game.
The complexities of working out all the issues here are huge and I feel CCP would be better spending the time fixing the faults in what we have already.
So in short No to this idea wipe it from the drawing board
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James Duar
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Posted - 2006.06.20 11:05:00 -
[10]
This would be a great idea....if we ever got line of sight damage. While anyone can shoot anything from any direction regardless of any obstacles, it's problematic.
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Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good! |
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ITTigerClawIK
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Posted - 2006.06.20 20:31:00 -
[11]
in addition to agreeing with the subsystem targetting idea id like to suggest a more in depth form of controlling your ship ie: the asdwqe keys for ship movement. i mean star trek bridge commander seems to do the whole thing of subsytem targeting and controll of ship perfectly i mena in eve you can fire though asteroids to get a target in eve id like to see a bit more tactical depth in the game the whole thing of he who has most dmg with there wepons wins then with the ECM and other stuff seems to be a lil to..monotimus (i think thats how ya spell it) and requires more realisum i mean i relaly hate the fact that you can fire though a structure ship or roid yet cant fly through them except when warping a bit stupid any one agree with me here?
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Homerclese
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Posted - 2006.06.21 01:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
NO
For simple reason that ships have different tanking methods ... You made shield system vulnerable to frig attacks, while armor tank modules are not. That for example is not fair to shield tankers (btw shield tanking mods are mid slot).
See the outcry about ECM being chance based and too random. Now introducing such a system to module destruction will make it worse.
There are limits to how far you can introduce chance based mechanics into MMORPGs.
It would be nice from an RP point of view, but would screw the game imo.
Noted, as with any idea on this forum, nothing is set in stone. Perhaps having engines instead of shields on the higher level subsystems?
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