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How do you keep your WH POS fueled?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Phoebe Buffet Dirty Martini Clinical Operations 9	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:57:00 - [1] - Quote We are a three girl corp that are struggling to keep a large Amarr tower fueled. It costs about 100 mil a week. Up to now we have been hauling in the fuel blocks but the logistics and cost suck. We talked about mining ice in empire and hauling in the ice refines and using a block BP in the POS and PI materials. However we donGÇÖt want to spend all day mining ice for this. WeGÇÖre doing it wrongGÇª.right?
Robert Morningstar Morningstar Excavations LTD Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 70	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:58:00 - [2] - Quote You can purchase the ice products only from the market and haul in then do pi in wh and build blocks there
Rosa Larosa Wishful Desires Inc. 8	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:20:00 - [3] - Quote I ride this huge Freighter that my man owns, so I can keep him fueled all month long....
Angsty Teenager Broski North Black Legion. 480	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:43:00 - [4] - Quote Why do you need a large tower? If you're a three person corp that struggles to keep a large tower fueled (i.e. I assume you don't have a JF), and talk about ice mining, it seems to me that you don't actually need a large tower. There are two reasons (in my opinion) to have a large tower. One is to dissuade potential attackers, but really I feel like this is pretty much irrelevant since you're a three person corp and people don't even need to take down your tower to own that system. The second reason is if you are running reactions, in which case I would imagine that's a far larger logistical issue than fuel -- so i don't think that's what you're doing, but if you are, just move to lowsec. Just use a smaller tower, logistics and cost issues will be much less.
Rroff Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 673	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:48:00 - [5] - Quote Run more sites, sell Pi, buy fuel blocks, use a DST for hauling (remember it has corp hangar now). In the end using the ISK from WH sites and spending the time on that is usually more efficent than trying to make POS fuel and mining ice, etc.
Ed Brokins VMF-214 Blacksheep 0	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:26:00 - [6] - Quote What class is your WH ? What is it's static ? Very important choice You may want a static to other WH / to null / to Empire. Every exit is different. Null offer good money and gank possibilitys, but dangerous for your farming partys in the wh. Other WH can offer plenty of different stuff to do like ganking, farming other wh, looting decaying POS'es. And empire access = very risky cause alot of people will enter your wh, but easy to refuel What do you expect of your wh, this is the question. Some WH have the good planets combo to build fuel in it. Jus t look for the PI planet tool and check if you can build it in your system : PI for pos fuel You may be in the wrong wh for your corp number :)
Robert Morningstar Morningstar Excavations LTD Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 70	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:38:00 - [7] - Quote no tool need you need a gas a barren and a lava/plasma have those 3 and you have everything you need for fuel the rest is just icing and for the person that mentioned Jump Freighter he has never been in wh before you can not do that in a low lvl wh at all as they mentioned.
Bronya Boga Rolled Out 378	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:28:00 - [8] - Quote Robert Morningstar wrote: no tool need you need a gas a barren and a lava/plasma have those 3 and you have everything you need for fuel the rest is just icing and for the person that mentioned Jump Freighter he has never been in wh before you can not do that in a low lvl wh at all as they mentioned. Holy Bob I thought I was having a stroke at the start of your post. Kids please read what you write before pressing that post button. p.s. use commas please! My Opinions are my own and do not reflect my corp Host of Down The Pipe-á www.downthepipe-wh.com Ingame Channel DTP Podcast
Oska Rus Free Ice Cream People 160	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:45:00 - [9] - Quote Three girl corp lol. :D You are doing WH very wrong. Do PI and farm sleepers. Then POS fuel will become your smallest expense.
Jack Miton Rolled Out 3449	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:50:00 - [10] - Quote Buy it in Jita, put it into tower. Not rocket science. If you can't afford it, downsize or recruit more people. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/

Amak Boma Dragon Factory 3	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:08:00 - [11] - Quote dont use large tower for 3 man corp that is bad idea , do you can defend it if agressor comes with large fleet? no. large tower is expensive ti maintenain so you should definietly take medium . the small tower is not worth time so stick with medium tower and you will be ok, buy the ice do a pi in your wormhole and build fuel in yur pos of course you can run sites, mine the gas and sell along the loot/salvage and buy fuel and haul in.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2273	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:13:00 - [12] - Quote First, if you live in a WH and cannot afford to fuel a POS (any class WH, any size tower) you are doing it wrong. Second, the ice products make up at least 90% of a fuel block's volume (I used to have a spreadsheet with the exact %). So bringing in the products in and making the blocks does not save very much hauling.
lanyaie DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exit Strategy.. 1032	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:21:00 - [13] - Quote Well....lets see. I'll make this very noob friendly, if you can't print enough isk with 3 "girls" to fuel one tower, perhaps you should look into doing something else. Step 1. Go to jita in hauler Step 2 open market Step 3 select racial fuel blocks Step 4 buy as much as you can carry Step 5 wait for kspace entrance Step 6 go to kspace entrance and then to your wormhole Step 7 put fuel in tower Step 8 rinse and repeat to avoid tower from running out of fuel. Hai
BayneNothos United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners 80	Posted - 2014.06.24 01:25:00 - [14] - Quote If you're looking for way to cut your costs down there's a few things you can do. Set up buy orders for the fuel blocks/ice/pi. It may only be a bit under straight off the market but it can help. Look elsewhere besides the markets hubs. If you're willing to put the hauling time in you can get things sometimes cheaper elsewhere. Check Eve-Central. In WH PI. There's an initial cost of course in the setup which may be worth it in the long run for you. Use your own customs offices. Another big cost for small groups but using your own 0% CO's helps in the long term. Use the whole system for PI. Make other stuff and send it out for sale. I'm going to get yelled at for saying this in a forum filled with PvP'ers, but watch your losses. Lazily logging in and running PI without checking the system, not bouncing to a safe beforehand. That kind of stuff creates easy lossmails. It may only be a 10mil iteron, but it's 10mil you need to spend. C2's tend to be a bit of a highway with a lot of WH connections so keeping the system locked is a bit more effort but anywhere else it's easy. Scan the system down, crash all the WH's before doing sites. There is literally zero reason you should ever loose a PvE boat in your home system ever. Triage/Siege excluded. If you need help on that, fire up a new thread. That replacement drake could be instead going into your fuel bill.
Erufen Rito The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People 338	Posted - 2014.06.24 05:16:00 - [15] - Quote Sounds like you need some Joey in your POS. Anyhow. You can't quite be above a c3 hole. That's just my guess, meaning you get consistent low and hisec exits. As such, I would run PI in home, and just bring in the ice, and make the fuel locally. If you are fast enough, you can fuel your POS in about a week's worth. This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 114	Posted - 2014.06.24 09:41:00 - [16] - Quote Erufen Rito wrote: Sounds like you need some Joey in your POS. Anyhow. You can't quite be above a c3 hole. That's just my guess, meaning you get consistent low and hisec exits. As such, I would run PI in home, and just bring in the ice, and make the fuel locally. If you are fast enough, you can fuel your POS in about a week's worth. It is more profitable to make PI for isk and just sell PI and buy fuelblocks. Same hauling, more isk. ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories Vertical. 639	Posted - 2014.06.24 11:17:00 - [17] - Quote As far as I remember, building fuel blocks in your home wasn't necessarily cheaper, bt using the materials you already produce in there cuts down the volume of required imports by quite a margin. If you intend to keep on doing this (wh-dwelling) with your small corp, a faction med tower could be awesome in the very long run. Afterall, you can scoop and anchor t somewhere else as you please. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
The Feuror Dominion of Inter-Celestial Kings Trapped. 53	Posted - 2014.06.24 12:02:00 - [18] - Quote Phoebe Buffet wrote: WeGÇÖre doing it wrongGÇª.right? Yes you are. Get back to making sandwiches ^ probably a troll.
Phoebe Buffet Dirty Martini Clinical Operations 9	Posted - 2014.06.24 12:43:00 - [19] - Quote Thanks for the serious replys. (some of them were anyways) It has helped us think thru a few more things. We know that we can fuel the POS but it would most likely take up a huge part of our earnings that way. Thats what we are looking to change. Recruiting is not an option. Yes it is a Class 2. We are doing PI up the ying yang. We are good at avoiding hostiles. So for three girls I think we are doing pretty well, except for the POS fuel issue.
Meytal School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 440	Posted - 2014.06.24 14:30:00 - [20] - Quote As others mentioned, you should eventually not have to worry about income in W-space, if you spend any length of time here. First, consider your W-space static. C1 and C2 statics are fairly poor income, though if you find a system rich with combat sites it can be beneficial (short term). We had a C1 open into us with maybe 40-ish combat sites, and since it was a slow night we ran them. We each soloed a bunch of sites, and overall I think we averaged 50-75m ISK/hr. We may have gotten lucky with ribbon drops, which is the limiting factor, but I don't know what C1 sites are supposed to average. When you move up to a C3 or C4 static, your fortunes can quickly change. C3 is still easily soloable (as in, a single ship), though C4 sites start hitting a little harder and neuting a little more. Three characters is more than enough to run combat sites in a C4, and you can easily get 100+ million ISK/hr for well-skilled characters. My corp has a C4 W-space static, and I wholeheartedly recommend that, as not only does it provide very good PvE income, but it also provides access to a very wide variety of PvP content. We have a couple of guys who multibox the C4 sites during off times and make 300+ mil ISK/hr (averaging 100m per account though). A C2/HS/C3 is also very good, but also very much in demand, and people will be willing to evict you over that if you are a small corp. C5 and C6 statics may have combat sites that are more than you can handle -- not sure, haven't run them non-escalated -- but they have the availability of Core gas sites with the coveted C320 gas whose protecting Sleepers can easily be killed by a small group like yours. I believe C2 holes with C5/C6 W-space statics also only have Nullsec K-space statics as well, which may not be what you're looking for. Harvesting C320 can be up to 100 mil ISK/hr depending on the market. Haven't checked lately, but it was close to 75 when I looked last. Sleeper shooting is incredibly lucrative, but requires active input and assets on field are immediately vulnerable. Done right, it also requires a hefty skill-set. It is the same with gassing, though assets on field are substantially less valuable than sleeper shooting ships. If you do decide to harvest gas, go straight for T2 gas harvesters before you even start. T2 is so substantially ahead of T1 Level 4 that it's not funny. You can always shoot rocks, though you're probably better off mining ice in Hisec for profits. We do like people who shoot rocks, though :) PI was already mentioned, but another big one is industry. Research and Manufacturing can produce huge profits with minor effort; most of the activity is passive, and for effort and risk vs reward, it far surpasses even "solo" capital escalations. It takes a couple of months to get to a good point where you're likely to make the most money with the greatest stability. You may need to start small or make a sizeable initial investment, but once you're rolling, just keep up with it and money pours in. The large tower may be expensive, and people may be suggesting that you tear it down and buy something smaller and more shiny, but in reality, a large, well-defended POS especially in a C1-C4 is about as discouraging as you can get as far as warding off attacks. It's not unheard of for bored people to stront-check even a medium POS. Shields on large towers alone is enough of a turn-off unless you really make someone mad.

Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 2273	Posted - 2014.06.24 18:47:00 - [21] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: As far as I remember, building fuel blocks in your home wasn't necessarily cheaper, bt using the materials you already produce in there cuts down the volume of required imports by quite a margin. Unfortunately you remember incorrectly. If you use the number of 28,800 blocks to fuel a large tower for a month then that is 144,000m3 of fuel blocks monthly to haul in. say you can make 100% of the PI in the WH and only need to import the ice products to make the fuel inside. JUST the ice products alone will be 136,386m3. So going through the hassle of making POS fuel PI and hauling in ice product only saves you 7,614 m3, or less than one blockade runner. Now this could change with the isotope m3 adjustment, but for now there is no real benefit to trying to make your fuel inside.
Ghenghis Kralj Big Johnson's Red Coat Conspiracy 24	Posted - 2014.06.24 20:51:00 - [22] - Quote tl;dr Can I be that guy? Ok...I'm gonna do it. "put fuel in it"
Val'Dore PlanetCorp InterStellar 626	Posted - 2014.06.24 21:00:00 - [23] - Quote Phoebe Buffet wrote: We are a three girl corp that are struggling So you figured you would mosey on over and see if any neckbeards might want to fuel it for you... right? SJD I invented Tiericide
Alundil Rolled Out 571	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:16:00 - [24] - Quote Well said meytal. On point and your figures aren't far off either. To op: welcome to wspace. Stay for a while. Tell your friends. We're all 'friendly'. System Occupancy Scanner - Deep Space Probes - Clones and Implants
Remy Nolen Sama Guild 11	Posted - 2014.06.25 05:00:00 - [25] - Quote Val'Dore wrote: Phoebe Buffet wrote: We are a three girl corp that are struggling So you figured you would mosey on over and see if any neckbeards might want to fuel it for you... right? Nothing could possibly go wrong with this plan ever...
Punctured Condom Bearded BattleBears Brave Collective 0	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:21:00 - [26] - Quote What is the problem, financing the fuel or hauling? I would try to sort hauling if that is the issue. Here are one or two things you can think of doing if you can decently haul stuff in and out: Put any reaction setup into your pos to reduce pos upkeep. The reaction needs to be profitable in terms of materials brought in vs exported materials. Even if your reaction produces 20 mil per month its money you can use for pos fuel. Look for all reactions not only wh sleeper gas. Do you have POCOs sorted? having no tax on pocos will reduce import/export taxes and it adds up in long run and if you have barren/temperate/lava/plasma planets you can make them into factory planets. Factory planets earn more then extraction but your hauling m3 will skyrocket like mad. Having 0% tax on pocos will allow you to compete with high sec factory farms at least. Example: With command center 5 you can fit 3 launchpads and 20 factories on a single planet. Hauling in mechanical parts (6000ish isk x 10 for 1 factory = 60000 isk) and consumer electronics (7000 isk x 10 = 70k isk) and then making robotics (3 pieces made from 1 factory = 3 x50k isk = 150k isk) and selling will get you 150k-130k=20k per factory per hour, thus one planet is 20k isk x 20 factories x 24 hours x 7 days = 67 mil per week, add more planets and you should be able to fund the pos easily. Of course my numbers are off and need to be substituted but hopefully you will see how much more better that is compared to extracting and making low tier garbage. Be ware though your hauling m3 needs will skyrocket like mad if you go this route though. Production. Get couple arrays, online the one you need at the moment store the rest. I would start looking for faction ship bpc-s on market. Ship bpc-s take decently long to manufacture so you dont have to micromanage it all the god damn time. One character with material efficiency 5 and mass production 4 in theory for example should be able to make some money. The prices and profitability will change with crius so you need to do the math yourself. If you can squeeze some profit out that can help financing the tower. Also reprocessing minerals you mine in wh may potentially cut down on hauling. I dont know the m3 but maybe is maybe. Do some math and see for yourself.
Elmonky Titans of The Short Bus Universal Consortium 67	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:50:00 - [27] - Quote Welcome to W Space! Large Tower in a C2 = expensive to run, but an excellent choice bcause , really who wants to spend several hours banging on the shields unless you have 19 other friends? Plus then you have the powergrid and CPU to expand your operations. If its a C2 the likelihood is it has a static to a higher class WH as well. Take a look in there every day (because it will change) look for gas sites you could have a sneaky smell of with a Venture equipped with gas huffers (C28 is worth 14 mill a hold iirc). Split the PI across the three of you, or if you can 2 of you. Use the third person as a hauler of Ice products. ONLY refine Ice in the POS until Crius launches. Everything else is capped at 75% yield. If you do mining operations you will likely find that you have more isogen and zydrine than you will ever need - sell the excess amounts of it and then buy Fuel blocks/Ice products and Trit/Pyerite because NOBODY should be mining Veldspar or Plagio in W Space. Too much effort for little return and risk of being jumped by roaming gangs of cloaky types.
Meytal School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 441	Posted - 2014.06.25 13:28:00 - [28] - Quote Alundil wrote: Well said meytal. On point and your figures aren't far off either. To op: welcome to wspace. Stay for a while. Tell your friends. We're all 'friendly'. Yeah, it's really hard to make accurate estimates because so much depends on skill, fleet composition, numbers of alts running, system effects, etc. So far, the best I've been able to see per account is around 100m ISK/hr for shooting Sleepers in non-Magnetar C4. We're still really bad at escalations, so I can't even begin to estimate what that should bring in per account :) I did check prices yesterday, and harvesting C320 with a max-skilled Venture/Prospect pilot is over 100m ISK/hr. AFK rock mining can produce a surprising amount of ISK, though expect to lose a lot of mining ships; don't use anything expensive if you do this. Lowsec ores are the best, probably due to nullsec mining bots flooding the market with minerals from the ABCs. (Ice mining is also up, and is only going to increase when Crius drops, but that's irrelevant to W-space). Hybrid polymer reactions and T2 moon goo reactions are really hit and miss and the market fluctuates fairly rapidly; they are worth it if you produce/acquire the materials yourself with minimal outside purchases to squeeze out just that few more ISK before selling to the market, but probably not worth it if you import everything. Patience is key there, knowing when to dump and when to hold. I've given up polymer reactions and use the CPU for industry, producing what will sell at obscene profit margins and decent theoretical ISK/hr. A broad range of options is best to avoid crashing any one income source. The best way to make ISK, though the least predictable and reliable, is to shoot people who have been shooting Sleepers for the last two or three hours, take any shiny that drops from their ships, and then harvest their proceeds. That's a great way to go "mining" too :) All of this is because it seems like the OP was mostly concerned with costs for fuel, which indeed have gone up since the ice belt changes, approaching the better part of a PLEX per month. You can probably save 50 mil per month in fuel costs by manufacturing it yourself with decent blueprints, but as mentioned, the hauling needs are greater if you bring everything in from outside, at least until Crius drops. After Crius, both hauling efficiency and profit will make in-hole production desireable. Or just sell PLEXes and buy fuel :)

ISD Supogo ISD Community Communications Liaisons 272	Posted - 2014.06.25 19:49:00 - [29] - Quote Removed insulting comments. Quote: 6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited. Racism, gender stereotyping and hate speech are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges. ISD Supogo Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Nickolai Tesla Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.06.26 05:01:00 - [30] - Quote You and your 3 lady corp should leave WH space.



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