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Zhon
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Posted - 2006.06.20 23:30:00 -
[1]
Ok this is something that has bugged me for the longest time and I am sure it has been talked about, but I Don't see any threads.
Cloaking Devices are ment to hide you from the enemy. Mask you presents to allow for stealthy operations.
I find it rather pointless to be cloak in a system when my enemy can just look in local to see that i am there.
O wow one person in system.... there could possibly be a gate camp on the other side of this gate..... expecially when you area know covert pilot.
Cloaking Devices need to remove you from local and then when you uncloak you should reappear.
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Moridin
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Posted - 2006.06.21 00:08:00 -
[2]
im going to hazard a guess and say after 100 ganks mining in low sec someone is going to scream bloddy murder |
Counterfeit
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Posted - 2006.06.21 00:08:00 -
[3]
cloaks are good as they are.
Making you invisible in local is too unfair and there is a current exploit that has the same effect (this is bannable and im not going to tell you how to do it anyway) :P
So:
Cloaking devices play a crucial role in pvp as it is, there is no need to make you inv to local, and ppl who want this to be a feature may as well wish for a frigate with 17 hi-slots and sufficient PG/CPU, or maybe a magic "win" button 
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Tarkis
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Posted - 2006.06.21 00:56:00 -
[4]
Well, you can always hope that someday that CCP removes local chat from the game (or at least showing up in local as soon as you enter the system).
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.06.21 01:07:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Tarkis
Well, you can always hope that someday that CCP removes local chat from the game (or at least showing up in local as soon as you enter the system).
Not going to happen*.
*Unless they add the local-jammer as a POS/Outpost mod that you have to run that just flat-out screws with local, and would only work in 0.0 space.
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Zhon
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Posted - 2006.06.21 02:17:00 -
[6]
Well it makes covert ops pointless. Nothing that a t1 frigate in a deep safe couldnt acheive.
Their function is not to be seen but CCP has an ingame feature that directly conflict with them.
Plain and simle if you are cloaked there is no reason you should show in local unless you talk. It gives away yourself asa covert ops ship, Possible camps, or operation that may be happening within the area.
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Mo Steel
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Posted - 2006.06.21 02:42:00 -
[7]
I'd be happy if just Covert Ops and Recon Ships didn't show up in local unless you speak. Especially Stealth Bombers - they frankly have so little going for them (can't warp cloaked, show up in local, low survivability and high cost in both isk and training required) that to not be invisible to local is just sad.
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Balklanac
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Posted - 2006.06.21 02:56:00 -
[8]
Pilots can remain cloaked in a system for a long period of time with no serious threat. If they were removed out of local as well that would be very imbalanced, as there wouldnt be a way of detecting a threat they pose at all. I think honestly we would have gangs of recon ships running around wrecking havoc wherever they choose to go.
However, if it were to be done than I would like to see:
Cloak detection capabillity via modules, ships, probes, a POS speciallist structures(my preferance), a deployable etc.. Cloak detection wouldnt give out the position of the cloaked ship but would reveal that a cloaked ship is present in the system. This way its not as easy as the current situation but it still gives people the tools to detect a threat and cloaked pilots have more of a chance of making sucesfull strike against unprepared targets.
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Stamm
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:06:00 -
[9]
The idea of removing local from the game is sound.
However it simply cannot be done without a massive raft of changes.
If you did it, you would see a massive amount of people quitting the game. As unless you were flying a recon ship, or you had an Anathema scouting and setting up slings, you'd be getting killed on an hourly basis. We'd all be back in empire running missions.
Recon ship enters system, goes to sun and scans, if it sees cargo containers someone is in there. It scans out where they are, warps to them and decloaks, when it decloaks it's already too late, that person is dead.
In order for cloaking devices to be balanced, if you cannot see the person in local, then with the top line cloak, a ship suited for it and max skills, you would need to have a sensor calibration time of at least a full minute. In addition, nobody in your gang should be able to warp to you while you are cloaked. And even then the Anathema would just find someone mining in a belt or ratting, announce it on vent, and his gang would jump into system, and warp directly to the belt.
Doing all this would result in significantly more kills and losses. But is it worth it?
For a start it would mean that you couldn't use a covert ops as a sling shot to warp to snipers. It's make recon ships useless, since there would be such a long recalibration time. Etc etc
Essentially what you are saying is 'Make it so that ships that are currently balanced as showing in local, don't show in local. And make it so all I need to do to find a kill, is find a system with 1 person in local.'
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Cruz
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:10:00 -
[10]
I thought they had done this a long time ago for 0.0 space? What happened to that?
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For the glory of the empire! |
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Swiftness
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Posted - 2006.06.21 03:18:00 -
[11]
Have you thought about the RECON SHIPS when you posted this ? No way to be safe when NPCing/mining in low sec anymore
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Zhon
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Posted - 2006.06.21 05:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Balklanac
Pilots can remain cloaked in a system for a long period of time with no serious threat. If they were removed out of local as well that would be very imbalanced, as there wouldnt be a way of detecting a threat they pose at all. I think honestly we would have gangs of recon ships running around wrecking havoc wherever they choose to go.
Ummmm... THat is the point. DOH !!!
The are covert ops ships. They are ment to be undetectable. They take a long time to train for and are very expensive to outfit.
Now like everything in this game their should be a counter. Something along the lines perhaps of a device that emite a ping (like sonar) that would uncloak all ships within a given area. Perhaps and achorable object like a warp bubble or a interdictors.
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Zyrtan Keb'Lektar
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Posted - 2006.06.21 05:48:00 -
[13]
the devs have said that they will do something about local. that they may change local for
low sec/0.0 so i guess only time will tell if it does happen or not
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BirdBleed
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Posted - 2006.06.21 08:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zhon
Originally by: Balklanac
Pilots can remain cloaked in a system for a long period of time with no serious threat. If they were removed out of local as well that would be very imbalanced, as there wouldnt be a way of detecting a threat they pose at all. I think honestly we would have gangs of recon ships running around wrecking havoc wherever they choose to go.
Ummmm... THat is the point. DOH !!!
The are covert ops ships. They are ment to be undetectable. They take a long time to train for and are very expensive to outfit.
Now like everything in this game their should be a counter. Something along the lines perhaps of a device that emite a ping (like sonar) that would uncloak all ships within a given area. Perhaps and achorable object like a warp bubble or a interdictors.
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Balklanac
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Posted - 2006.06.21 08:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zhon
Originally by: Balklanac
Pilots can remain cloaked in a system for a long period of time with no serious threat. If they were removed out of local as well that would be very imbalanced, as there wouldnt be a way of detecting a threat they pose at all. I think honestly we would have gangs of recon ships running around wrecking havoc wherever they choose to go.
Ummmm... THat is the point. DOH !!!
The are covert ops ships. They are ment to be undetectable. They take a long time to train for and are very expensive to outfit.
Maybe to you they are expensive to some people they are chump change.
Long to train if you are starting from scratch, but a lot of people have allready trained for both HACs and Covert Ops.
Originally by: Balklanac
However, if it were to be done than I would like to see:
Cloak detection capabillity via modules, ships, probes, a POS speciallist structures(my preferance), a deployable etc.. Cloak detection wouldnt give out the position of the cloaked ship but would reveal that a cloaked ship is present in the system. This way its not as easy as the current situation but it still gives people the tools to detect a threat and cloaked pilots have more of a chance of making sucesfull strike against unprepared targets.
Quote everything I mentioned next time I already made a better case for cloaked ships and local than you did, as mine would be one small step in the right direction, a system which could easily be improved upon.
Originally by: Zhon
Now like everything in this game their should be a counter. Something along the lines perhaps of a device that emite a ping (like sonar) that would uncloak all ships within a given area. Perhaps and achorable object like a warp bubble or a interdictors.
Yours a giant step towards cyber-hell where the devils would all be flying recons and bombers
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Chewan Mesa
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Posted - 2006.06.21 08:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Counterfeit
cloaks are good as they are.
Making you invisible in local is too unfair and there is a current exploit that has the same effect (this is bannable and im not going to tell you how to do it anyway) :P
So:
Cloaking devices play a crucial role in pvp as it is, there is no need to make you inv to local, and ppl who want this to be a feature may as well wish for a frigate with 17 hi-slots and sufficient PG/CPU, or maybe a magic "win" button
I 'think' that bug has been fixed.
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Aladrielle
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Posted - 2006.06.21 09:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mo Steel
I'd be happy if just Covert Ops and Recon Ships didn't show up in local unless you speak. Especially Stealth Bombers - they frankly have so little going for them (can't warp cloaked, show up in local, low survivability and high cost in both isk and training required) that to not be invisible to local is just sad.
Possibibly a 'Coms Blackout' module. Creates a field around your ship messing with your connection to the coms frequencies so you wouldnt show up, but also disabling your ability to speak to anyone else? Would add to the 'usability' of the ships, but also give them the disadvantage that you have to go somewhere 'safe' or reveal you are in the area to the enemy in order to report back.
Originally by: Zhon
The are covert ops ships. They are ment to be undetectable. They take a long time to train for and are very expensive to outfit.
Now like everything in this game their should be a counter. Something along the lines perhaps of a device that emite a ping (like sonar) that would uncloak all ships within a given area. Perhaps and achorable object like a warp bubble or a interdictors.
This should also be added too, but not decloak the ships, more just show them to you and your gang mabe. Decloaking them would make it obvious that your enemy can see you, a sub doesnt know if its been detected generally till the depth charges start going 'le pop' all around them... ;)
~
Oops, i appear to have my "Dread Guristas Thread-killer' module installed >< |
eLLioTT wave
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Posted - 2006.06.21 09:29:00 -
[18]
just fix local so it's not the "uber intel tool" that it currently is.
Make it regional (shows everyone in current region) or else you only show up if you chat.
(All the ppl saying they will cancel their subscriptions are the same ones that threaten to do so if you don't give their race a boost in the next patch.)
On the flip side cloaking could do with a counter. Something like sonar, only can be fitted to T1 destroyers, has a range of ? 10km? 30 with skills? and pulses once every 10 seconds. The pulses go out like a sensor booster and any ships in range of the pulse temporarily uncloak for 10 seconds (they still cannot be targetted - according to the computer they are still cloaked or something) but they show up on overview and if you then get within 2km as normal they will uncloak and you can lock.
This would give a new lease on life to T1 destroyers and make them invaluable in gate camps and hunting cloaked ships. |
inSpirAcy
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Posted - 2006.06.21 10:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
just fix local so it's not the "uber intel tool" that it currently is.
Make it regional (shows everyone in current region) or else you only show up if you chat.
The moment you do that, you can be assured of the mass exodus (well... remaining exodus) of players to high sec.
At the moment local is one of the few effective tools in doing non-PvP operations in low sec with some degree of safety. Even for PvP, local is absolutely essential in my line of work: solo pirating. If I can't see roughly how many people are around (often out of scan range) or rapid rises in local count, I'd be taking an unprofitably high risk in making any engagements at all.
OTOH, your idea would be great for further promoting the Blob Philosophy. 
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General Andraax
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Posted - 2006.06.21 12:37:00 -
[20]
To be honest all chat channles should be optional... I men I can just turn of my frigging radio if I don't wonna listen to it, and I damn well know the meening of "Radio Silence", in a military opperation :)
So, yes I agree... if you don't wonna be in Local-chat you should be able to just close it and be happy.
The counter to Cloaking should be some advanced sensor array module, not listening in on the radio channle...
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Zezman
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Posted - 2006.06.21 13:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Counterfeit
Making you invisible in local is too unfair and there is a current exploit that has the same effect (this is bannable and im not going to tell you how to do it anyway) :P
They fixed this loophole in a patch some time ago.
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