| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Catjusha
   |
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:36:00 -
[1]
I'm still fairly new to the game (a couple months in), but when I read the forums, I see plenty of posts regarding people who exploit the game mechanics for their personal gain:
- (chinese?) farmer squadrons who strip entire systems of ore
- people farming selected missions for loot / minerals (ab)using the daily reset
- people farming complexes just when the complex bosses respawn (after downtime also? no idea)
- people who use trade resets at downtime to get the first jump on selling / buying goods (apparently this has been closed now)
I'm sure there are many more loopholes which are exploited at the moment, so excuse my ignorance. What I'm not sure is if I want to play a game that allows such "features" to exist and be exploited on a daily basis with the obvious knowledge of the developers.
Cat
|
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:38:00 -
[2]
Is this your first MMO?
|
uberaltscout
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:38:00 -
[3]
almost all the major isk comes from exploiting other than t2 bpos
|
Eternal Fury
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:40:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Eternal Fury on 21/06/2006 19:41:50
I hate to tell you, but every MMO out there has game mechanics that can be exploited, and are. We are a smaller population, so word gets around faster on how to do it. Things get posted to the forums complaining about it.
Get used to "exploits", or useing knowledge of game mechanics to make a profit.
This is all standard fare for MMO's.
Now, if they are useing a bug, that's different.
But if the game rules allow you to do something, we have to assume the devs intended it to be used that way until they tell us differently.
:edited for my inability to type..
Brotherhood of Light. Small Corp, Big Fun. Wanna join? |
Estel Arador
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:41:00 -
[5]
They just fixed an exploit and you're complaining the devs allow people to exploit exploits?
|
Catjusha
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:43:00 -
[6]
I have played a number of MMOG's so far, including DAoC, SWG, AO (froob), and some minor ones. The things I listed seem to persist for quite some time now and I've only seen SOE ignore such issues with SWG (macro driven spawn farmers in dungeons).
|
|
Chribba
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:45:00 -
[7]
I heard rumors about some carebear exploiting the authorities in empire to mine in a dread! This is an outrage!
And in reply to the "facts" stated by OP;
Farmers - bad yes.
Farming missions - not bad since missions are somewhat random.
Farming complexes - yeah can agree to maybe it can be farmable on timed respawns.
Trade resets - anyone can set up buy/sell orders to match the market resets.
My 6.66 ISK.
/c
*** BUY MY CORPSE ***
[ Monitor this Thread ] |
|
Shamis Orzoz
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 21/06/2006 19:46:55
I think its safe to say that eve has fewer "exploits" than most games.
But when I say exploit I mean an all out bug, not a fairly minor design flaw.
The way the market resets has already been addressed, and hopefully they'll be hitting the complex respawns in the next few months.
Other games tend to have more real exploits that abuse blatent bugs because it doesn't matter as much, since most games have zero risk.
Also, how can farming be considered an exploit? There is nothing any game can do to prevent large groups of people from doing certain repetative isk making actions over and over in order to try to sell the money elsewhere. All they can do is try to ban people who are macro'ing on a case by case basis and try to ban pro isk sellers on a case by case basis. There really is no way to prevent this sort of activity...
Shamis
|
Wrayth Osu
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:51:00 -
[9]
Yeah, going off what Shamis said...
It's very important to clarify that there is a difference between an "exploit" i.e. taking advantage of a bug in the game to your advantage. And just taking advantage of the game mechanics that are in the game.
What the 1.0 Belt farmers are doing is not an exploit, despite how many people try to call it that. And CCP has taken steps to moderate things like this, for example the changes that prohibit trial accounts from using certain ships or giving away ISK and such.
Again to re-iterate what was said before... EVERY game out there has issues of some kind... EVE has way LESS than the others in my experience.
_____________________________
Nukem from orbit...
It's the only way to be sure. |
floppy fish
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:52:00 -
[10]
These arent' exploits. Rats resetting after DT has been around for a very long time. First people complained about them, nothing happened. Then people started taking advantage of them. Now those who don't complain about them.
Farming Complexes after respawn? Thats just the only time the bosses are there, they get farmed out during the day, or the complex gets camped during prime time. If there is a known time period when the bosses are there, well duh, thats when the smart people are going to run them.
People using trade resets at downtime? Thats been there forever. It only becomes an issue now because of the population and competition.
Yes, your ignorance is excused. These aren't expoits in as much as they are incorrect game mechanics that have simply not been fixed for years.
I notice you forgot to add "rat exploiting", the act of flying from belt to belt within a system, killing and looting the rats, then coming back 30 minutes later and killing the respawn ... omigod, exploit.
Or how about the T2 blueprint Exploit --- a few select individuals (and I am sure they are select for certain BP, rather then lotto'ed) owning the only BPO for certain items and making isk hand over fist manufacturing and selling the. You don't think any of that ISK is getting listed on Ebay? Dream on.
|
|
|
13th
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:53:00 -
[11]
Edited by: 13th on 21/06/2006 19:58:51
- (chinese?) farmer squadrons who strip entire systems of ore
Stripping systems of ore is not an exploit, even if it is Chinese players who are doing it.
- people farming selected missions for loot / minerals (ab)using the daily reset
Not an exploit, it is simply understanding and taking advantage of how the game operates.
- people farming complexes just when the complex bosses respawn (after downtime also? no idea)
Having a firm understanding of the game mechanics is not exploiting. Many people agree that the game should not be that predictable, especially in this regard, but that does not make this an exploit.
- people who use trade resets at downtime to get the first jump on selling / buying goods (apparently this has been closed now)
This was not an exploit either. It was simply how the game operated. In empire, trade good prices reset after downtime. Now they do not. The rules have been changed. That doesn't make operating under the previous rules an exploit unless they were breaking some tennant of the end user license agreement, which to the best of my knowledge they were not.
Cry harder.
(fixed spelling) |
gfldex
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:54:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
The way the market resets has already been addressed, and hopefully they'll be hitting the complex respawns in the next few months.
It's allready fixed. Keyholder have a random spawn time of 1-4 hours after reboot now.
--
$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
|
Havelcek
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:55:00 -
[13]
CCP could solve some of their exploiting problems by not "rebooting" the gameworld at every downtime. The universal MMO law is that the more static and predictable something is, the easier it is to exploit. If they just figured out a mechanism to dynamically "reset" or change content without basing it on downtime they would probably have a bunch fewer problems.
|
Drused
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: uberaltscout
almost all the major isk comes from exploiting other than t2 bpos
That's a very false statement. There are a lot of rich players who get their money legally and without bypassing rules.
|
Niccolado Starwalker
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 19:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Catjusha
I'm still fairly new to the game (a couple months in), but when I read the forums, I see plenty of posts regarding people who exploit the game mechanics for their personal gain:
- (chinese?) farmer squadrons who strip entire systems of ore
- people farming selected missions for loot / minerals (ab)using the daily reset
- people farming complexes just when the complex bosses respawn (after downtime also? no idea)
- people who use trade resets at downtime to get the first jump on selling / buying goods (apparently this has been closed now)
I'm sure there are many more loopholes which are exploited at the moment, so excuse my ignorance. What I'm not sure is if I want to play a game that allows such "features" to exist and be exploited on a daily basis with the obvious knowledge of the developers.
Cat
As you can see from this Post, CCP is not the only MMORPG thats dealing with this case. Others do too. So you cant really call EVE a cheaters heaven.
|
Moghydin
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 20:00:00 -
[16]
Exploiting is in human nature. Everyone wants to have an edge, no matter what, and not many can overcome the desire to use tricks to do so. What you listed is not exploiting btw, it's powergaming - using game mechanics loopholes to get an advantage over the opponent, or maximize own profit. Some ppl just want to play "dirty" because playing fair is too difficult/boring.
|
Catjusha
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 20:04:00 -
[17]
Thanks for the replies, however I'm not very satisfied by the "it's a feature of the game, so people can (ab)use it as they see fit" answers.
And for the cry more noob people (yes 13, that's you), I won't cry, I'll simply move on to a game which has a better grasp on these issues once I see those exploits hampering my gameplay.
Cat
|
Niccolado Starwalker
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 20:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Catjusha
Thanks for the replies, however I'm not very satisfied by the "it's a feature of the game, so people can (ab)use it as they see fit" answers.
And for the cry more noob people (yes 13, that's you), I won't cry, I'll simply move on to a game which has a better grasp on these issues once I see those exploits hampering my gameplay.
Cat
This exploit aint hampering anyone! CCP have said that this does not affect the echonomy as a whole, and that a very very few actually do gold mining.
EVE is actually the only online game I have heard that this exsist in pretty small scales. And if you are looking for a onlinegame where this is not the case, I think the only game out there without gold miners have to be ...The Sims online? But thats because its almost dead anyway i think.
But sure. if you want to leave because they simply exsist, sure be my guess. But u will have a hard time finding another game without it.
|
13th
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 20:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Catjusha
Thanks for the replies, however I'm not very satisfied by the "it's a feature of the game, so people can (ab)use it as they see fit" answers.
And for the cry more noob people (yes 13, that's you), I won't cry, I'll simply move on to a game which has a better grasp on these issues once I see those exploits hampering my gameplay.
Cat
How are any of these activities possibly hampering you in any fashion? With the exception of alliances running the 10/10 complexes, which a new player won't have any chance of doing anything in anyways, none of the activities you complained about are depriving you of any income or possible gameplay activities.
If all it takes to drive you away from a game is someone else understanding how the game operates and using that understanding in a non-exploitative, non-rule breaking manner I don't think that you will find any online game enjoyable for long.
|
Zaldiri
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 20:26:00 -
[20]
Not many of those thigs you mentioned are acctual exploits, there just using the game mechanics to farm intesivly.
Farming is not against game rules (and cannot be becuase there is not clear disticition between farming and legitimate reasource gathering) however the Dev's will implament measures to reduce the ease of farming.
What is against the the rules is: using macros to mine ore, and selling isk/ingame stuff for real life money.
-----------------------------------------------
Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
|
|
|
Darktec
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 20:48:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Darktec on 21/06/2006 20:48:36
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
The way the market resets has already been addressed, and hopefully they'll be hitting the complex respawns in the next few months.
It's allready fixed. Keyholder have a random spawn time of 1-4 hours after reboot now.
thats not a fix, thats a delay at best, im still new to this game ( almost 4 months ) and every complex that is worth doing, i see camped with battleships, they need to make it instanced ( which wont happen ) or they need to have it where you can only enter it, 2-3 times a week with your main. Once my skills get to where i want them, id love to be able to do these complexes with friends, but i dont think that will ever happen, especially the low sec ones, cause you warp in, start shooting the npcs, then some *censored* warps in and snipes you from 200km ( yes this has happened to me and my friends ).
so they need to simply make a better system than the one thats in-game now.
just my 2 isk.
|
Moghydin
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 21:01:00 -
[22]
Yes, something should be done with complexes. Same ppl continuously farming 10/10's because back then they were smart enough to take that space and now it's plain impossible to remove them from it are not the best idea for a game. Also, the fact that only some "chosen" factions have 10/10's and other don't is very strange. From RP perspective, complexes are faction BASES, how come, that the very same base is being methodically raized to the ground, and then it reappeares all of a sudden, when everyone is already waiting to set it on fire again.
|
Darktec
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 21:13:00 -
[23]
I have a good idea, they need to have the deadspaces appear at differant zones, might take some time to get uesd to the fact they cant camp them 24/7 , but it would make it where they would have to have some risk on finding these complexes, i.e. use covops to scout ahead and see if the complexes are in a zone, then bring back your firepower, this would make it risk/reward, but then again, it doesnt help the new ppl who dont have the ability to use covops to find them, i duno, i have trust in ccp to make this more balanced,
-Darktec-
|
Malthros Zenobia
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 21:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Chribba
I heard rumors about some carebear exploiting the authorities in empire to mine in a dread! This is an outrage!
Indeed. I hope that bastard gets what's coming to them.
|
Valea Silpha
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 21:36:00 -
[25]
Most of what your complaining about isn't exploiting by any stretch of the imagination.
Intensive mining needs to happen for the economy to run. Yes macro-mining is exploiting, but a corp out in barges for a day is them making isk through a legitimate mechanism.
Nothing wrong with farming missions. Theres a fair chance you'll get the same mission twice in a row anyway with the same net effect. If things didn't respawn at DT, then they either have to do so randomly or not at all and niether is preferable.
The low level plexs get are free for all, and the strongest gets them. Its the nature of the game. The high level places are corporate assets and need to be predictable to make them worth using at all.
Trade routes are fixed.
<Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing
<Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head |
Kurren
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 21:42:00 -
[26]
Obviously you haven't played Lineage 2...
--- --- --- ---
SobaKai.com
|
HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 21:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Chribba
I heard rumors about some carebear exploiting the authorities in empire to mine in a dread! This is an outrage!
Indeed. I hope that bastard gets what's coming to them.
A lot of veld 
|
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 21:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Chribba
I heard rumors about some carebear exploiting the authorities in empire to mine in a dread! This is an outrage!
Indeed. I hope that bastard gets what's coming to them.
A lot of veld
No man deserves a fate like that. 
---
The Eve Wiki Community Portal | Eve Tribune |
Emily Spankratchet
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 21:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Catjusha
I won't cry, I'll simply move on to a game which has a better grasp on these issues once I see those exploits hampering my gameplay.
That's your perogative, of course. However, in my opinion you would be hard pressed to even notice these exploits, let alone have them hamper your gameplay. The only possible expection to this is complex camping, but this may have been adressed.
 Farmers mining - This will affect ore prices, but isn't causing market stabilisation in any appreciable way. Although people go on and on about farmers and macroers, their impact when compared to the many legit hardcore miners is unlikely to be that significant.
Mission farming - With the way loot drops are these days, mission farming shouldn't really affect the module market. Yes, it makes people richer but not significantly more than just running lots of missions. Again, doesn't seem to be destabilising the economy.
Complex farming - Okay, so the way it was this would have hampered your gameplay if you wanted to run complexes. May have been fixed, we'll have to wait and see how the changes pan out.
Trade resets at downtime - Apart from a few specific trade goods, this wasn't significantly different from strategic placement of buy and sell orders. And it's been fixed.
I'm sure people will argue with me on this, but on the whole the EvE economy is stable (barring a few items, and the bugbear of some T2). Look at the economic indicators that are available. What's more, CCP care about balance and work hard to keep the game on an even keel. When they're not breaking it with bad version control, that is. 
If you can find an MMO with more balance and thought in its economy, let me know. I might join you.
|
Sharl Hawkeye
|
Posted - 2006.06.21 21:58:00 -
[30]
Macrominers ARE an exploit and CCP close the eye because they are 6000 of them 23/7 online.
please read
Here
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |