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Sigurd Ross
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Posted - 2006.06.22 08:29:00 -
[1]
It's not about the graphics, the server stability, or any of that. It's the gravest, most severe, cardinal sin of any MMO.
The concept is bad.
The concept is to have "oldschool Everquest" with a new skin. That means some wierd abstract mechanic where death means you get to run around naked, your little elf having to rush over to loot your own dead body, defying all the laws of physics and immersion/believability.
It means massive experience loss upon death, too. (Yeah we got it here, but we can alleviate it with clones  )
It means long, boring travel times. Because nothing is better than holding down the "run" key with a weighted object and getting yourself a sammich.
It means yet another tired fantasy MMO with the usual "omg dark elf" crap. With some poor SOB monsters minding their own business in their lairs before a gang of six elves start stabbing it for its magic slippers.
It means it will suck. The hype is insane, and I do not understand it. 
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Xeaon
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Posted - 2006.06.22 08:32:00 -
[2]
You missed off 'it's published by SOE'. That's pretty much auto-suckage right there.
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 Originally by: Righteous Fury
Eve is not about the old preying on the new, its about the smart preying on the utterly incompetent.
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Benefactor
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Posted - 2006.06.22 08:38:00 -
[3]
I just read that EA bought Mythic.
Breaks my heart, because that signs the death warrant for Warhammer Online.
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Niccolado Starwalker
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Posted - 2006.06.22 09:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Benefactor
I just read that EA bought Mythic.
Breaks my heart, because that signs the death warrant for Warhammer Online.
You have to look on it from the bright side. Because it could have been way worse! It could have been SOE..... 
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fairimear
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Posted - 2006.06.22 09:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Benefactor
I just read that EA bought Mythic.
Breaks my heart, because that signs the death warrant for Warhammer Online.
You have to look on it from the bright side. Because it could have been way worse! It could have been SOE.....
no it could't.
Atleast some SOE games are ok for the first lke month afte launch, untill the soe dev nerf strikes them down and you end up with work experiance kids programing the new content.
EA games suck full stop from beining to the cash sucking expansion end.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.06.22 09:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sigurd Ross
The concept is to have "oldschool Everquest" with a new skin....
It means it will suck. The hype is insane, and I do not understand it.
Didn't oldschool Everquest have a huge pile of players and make a lot of money?
________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Kurren
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Posted - 2006.06.22 16:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sigurd Ross
It's not about the graphics, the server stability, or any of that. It's the gravest, most severe, cardinal sin of any MMO.
The concept is bad.
The concept is to have "oldschool Everquest" with a new skin. That means some wierd abstract mechanic where death means you get to run around naked, your little elf having to rush over to loot your own dead body, defying all the laws of physics and immersion/believability.
FANTASY...
Originally by: Sigurd Ross
It means massive experience loss upon death, too. (Yeah we got it here, but we can alleviate it with clones )
This encourages people to NOT die. Though, read my last paragraph...
Originally by: Sigurd Ross
It means long, boring travel times. Because nothing is better than holding down the "run" key with a weighted object and getting yourself a sammich.
Not all that different in Eve... only difference is there are no trees to run into in Eve.
Originally by: Sigurd Ross
It means yet another tired fantasy MMO with the usual "omg dark elf" crap. With some poor SOB monsters minding their own business in their lairs before a gang of six elves start stabbing it for its magic slippers.
It means it will suck. The hype is insane, and I do not understand it.
Now you're making sense! This is why it will flop. Couple that with SOE being on the box... and you've got yourself a money sink with no hopes of a faucet.
Funny thing was, at FanGaurd, during the meet and greet (so they had an opportunity to listen to what the fans wanted) all I heard about was them trying immulate WoW because that's where the money is. And, unless they changed the way they planned on dealing with death... there won't be much of a punishment at all due to that.
--- --- --- ---
SobaKai.com
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2006.06.22 21:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Sigurd Ross
The concept is to have "oldschool Everquest" with a new skin....
It means it will suck. The hype is insane, and I do not understand it.
Didn't oldschool Everquest have a huge pile of players and make a lot of money?
Yes, it did.
In fact it's still running and still has 300k+ players.
Sigil was also talking about many new original features that would make the game better , especially the diplomacy, but they don't seem to really be there.
I doubt it will attract more than 100k subscribers but many of them will say its the greatest game ever in the history of the universe.
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Burr
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Posted - 2006.06.23 04:27:00 -
[9]
Personally I sort of liked it. Until I heard about SOE acquiring it in a e-mail.
/me strikes Vanguard from interesting mmorpg's list
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar. |
Spike87
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Posted - 2006.06.23 07:16:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Spike87 on 23/06/2006 07:16:04
Originally by: Sigurd Ross
It means long, boring travel times. Because nothing is better than holding down the "run" key with a weighted object and getting yourself a sammich.
I played wow for a week, spent most of my time balancing a swiss army knife on the keyboard
I'm so naive I thought i was the only one.
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Peter Stuyvesant
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Posted - 2006.06.23 10:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kurren
only difference is there are no trees to run into in Eve.
We have billboards 
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Winter Star
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Posted - 2006.06.23 10:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Spike87
Edited by: Spike87 on 23/06/2006 07:16:04
Originally by: Sigurd Ross
It means long, boring travel times. Because nothing is better than holding down the "run" key with a weighted object and getting yourself a sammich.
I played wow for a week, spent most of my time balancing a swiss army knife on the keyboard
I'm so naive I thought i was the only one.
WoW has a run toggle... MB3 by default iirc lol.
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Jim'ard Stone
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Posted - 2006.06.23 11:16:00 -
[13]
Here's me thinking this was about the 4 ageing Vanguard Submarines that britains thinking of upgrading lol.
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Laird
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Posted - 2006.06.23 15:14:00 -
[14]
And here is me thinking that somebody had found out my other online name I use and what my performance in Battlefield 2 is like.
"Reality Compromised - The Clown has become enraged"
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Vexoth
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Posted - 2006.06.23 15:56:00 -
[15]
EVE has an even worse death penalty than Vanguard, and seems to do very well. The game is still in beta, and those who play are under NDA. So you have no actual proof the game sucks. People will chose for themselves.
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Caol
Minmatar
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.09.26 13:13:00 -
[16]
Just for a moment, let me try and disagree with the OP because I weally waelly want Vanguard to be something good.
As far as I understand, Sony Online Entertainment (SoE) only have a major hand in the distribution of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and have nothing to do with the production which is being done by the team at Sigil. In an interview with April Jones, Sigil's Senior Manager of Marketing and PR found here, fears of SoE "takeover" are talked down and it "looks" like SoE are only there because they will offer the game through their station service - therefore providing it to a larger number of subscribers. For those that don't know, this basically means you pay this amount for all those wonderful games  .
Ive played Everquest II for around a year (on and off - just returned from a break) and the talk on the forums there is that Vanguard:SOH is the "next thang" with alot of people planning to leave to play it - including members of the top guilds ie Ne Plus Ultra, Dissolution, etc etc. Couple this with Vanguard:SOH being hailed as the "true successor" to Everquest and one could also forsee alot of the diehard that still play Everquest leaving for Vanguard:SoH. Out of pure coincidence, Everquest and Everquest II are run and marketed by SoE - a company that incidentally Brad McQuaid worked at.
What am i getting at here? That SoE and Sigil are not too dissimilar in that ex-members of SoE work at Sigil and that a number of these people had a hand in the pre-production of the pre-cursors to Vanguard. So any alliance between the two should not be too surprising given that both camps have worked with each other in the fantasy genre before.
What worries me about SoE, however, is what mysteriously seems to happen to games that fall under their control. Taking Everquest II: it use to have a harsh xp penalty upon your avatars death. If you died in a dungeon you would either have to wait 3 days for your shard to expire, at which time you to return to full strength, or you run down to get your shard. Gaining experience was a toil and it was a grind of a few months upto the intial level cap of 50. Loot such as Master Spells (the highest level spells) and fabled/legendary gear were extremely rare to such an extent that even when raiding there was a strong chance this type of stuff wouldn't drop out the dragons stomach. This is what Vanguard is (or was) being billed as. Take the situation EQ2 is now in. The death penalty has been so far removed that you only loose alittle xp on death (and if your at the level cap this means nothing). Items that were once ultra rare are now a common site and its quite easy to get a new character to the level cap within a month (depending on play time) - in short the risk in the game has been removed. Don't get me wrong, EQ2 is visually stunning and i love(d) it once, but in the long run gameplay is king.
Though I have no experience of other games such as Star War galaxies, from what i hear from friends who played them from the start the changes made by the SoE team have been, on the whole, detrimental. Though this is pure hearsay on my part.
I still plan to get into Vanguard (hoping too that there is a European server at launch....) but I have a feeling a year or so after I start, the magic will fade and I will return to Eve. Meh, i can hope i guess...
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Ozawi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.26 13:39:00 -
[17]
Just a couple of quick notes on Vanguard:
*You don't run naked to retrieve your corpse/gear. You can have extra gear stored away. So if you die, get your second string, bring a friend, and get your stuff. Not really rocket science.
*As mentioned above, SOE is only publishing this title. Not developing it. They get no creative control over the game at all. It's only a publishing deal.
*EA will, however, dig their grubby little fingers into Warhammer mostly likely - and completely neuter it. Their deal with Mythic is, I *believe* (someone please link if there's evidence otherwise) more inclusive than the Sony / Sigil deal. And we all know what EA does to their online titles. 
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This sig is mine. There are others like it, but this one is mine alone. Mods keep out, or I will drop trou and sprinkle some tinkle in your Cheerios!
-I don't eat Cheerios. -ReverendM |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.26 14:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Sigurd Ross
The concept is to have "oldschool Everquest" with a new skin....
It means it will suck. The hype is insane, and I do not understand it.
Didn't oldschool Everquest have a huge pile of players and make a lot of money?
As did Survivor and Desperate Housewives.
Doesn't mean Survivor or Desperate Housewives are good TV shows.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher
The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Samirol
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.09.26 14:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: Sigurd Ross
The concept is to have "oldschool Everquest" with a new skin....
It means it will suck. The hype is insane, and I do not understand it.
Didn't oldschool Everquest have a huge pile of players and make a lot of money?
As did Survivor and Desperate Housewives.
Doesn't mean Survivor or Desperate Housewives are good TV shows.
i liked your britney spears and christina aguilera as the best singers analogy better
RIP Steve Irwin
Maybe not herpes, but I'll give ya goat!-Tirg |
Detavi Kade
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Posted - 2006.09.26 16:45:00 -
[20]
Followed vanguard for awhile, coincidentally is where I heard about EVE. Thought the concept would be cool, but pretty much swore it off when SOE got its hands in it. yes yes I've heard it all about "only the publisher" thing...whatever! There WILL be pressure on Sigil to do "something" with the game, since SOE is now financially impacted.
whether it will suck or not, is not really any of my concern anymore. One thing about the actual gameplay that concerned me when I was following it, was what Mcquaid said. "The most rewarding(loot/xp wise) path should be the funnest path." While that sounds great, it smacks of a non-tradeoff system. I happen to like EVE's tradeoff system alot. You gain this, you lose that. Every path has its pros and cons(mostly). And its your decision to make, as to which you prefer. The quote from Brad seems to indicate that there will likely be one or two main paths that everyone will take since those will be the funnest AND most rewarding.
How that will play out, we'll just have to see. I'm a 1-game at a time type person, and EVE has all my attention for the forseeable future. Gameplay is KING, and for whatever faults I perceive in EVE's gameplay, it still has the best gameplay I've seen so far. Esp the player corp/alliance politics.
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