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Frakri Hogsto	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:26:00 - [31] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Demangel Edited by: Demangel on 23/06/2006 06:07:42 As far as I see it, this is meaningless... If you have problems with alliances patrolling defending and ganking anything that doesn't show up as blue in thier space, then either don't go there, or join one. What I wanna know is, if you haven't been ganked since 03, that just screams a player who isn't into the PVP thing anyway, and if you ARE into the PVP thing and say you havn't been ganked since 03, then either: A: Your full of BS (I and I don't mean a battleship). or B: You have got no reason to complain about anything as you seem to be doing just fine without CCP holding your hand. So I submit that your argument lacks first hand knowledge of anything having to do with 0.0 and how it works and why, and your entire argument is just an opinion based on some selfish agenda. ... Come join one and really take part in it, and I bet your tune would change real fast. If thats not something you want to do, then if you must come up to 0.0, know that your life expectancy is not going to be very high, so make every minute there count! Since Infinity was created she has died 3 times in combat, lost ships 8 times and she has 105 solo killmails. The one and only time I was ganked was by by Zombie corp at a jump in in Atlar before they made ships cloak and moved jump ins to gate The only time im not PvPing is when I'm missioning to fund my PvPing. Ive lived in 0.0 when I was SA and Ive hunted in Curse quite a bit killing CA RUS ships. I have no interest in the so called PvP that alliances typically engage in. Its impersonal and boring to me and alliance politics I have been exposed to are sucky at their best - look at BoBs -Kill Everybody Policy- unrealistic and gamey. I find it ironic that you all feel so strongly about being able to sit in a camp and kill people but your SO afraid that one of your victims will engage you in a 1 vs 1 in Empire using Kill Rights you sux, so does your idea -------------------------------------- What you gonna do, when I come for yoU?! --------------------------------------
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:27:00 - [32] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 23/06/2006 10:29:55 Originally by: Malachon Draco I don't see the problem with giving killrights in Empire for kills in 0.0. All it would do is make Empire more and more dangerous, which would be great. It might also reduce the eternal gatecamps at some 0.0 entry systems. If mr pirate who lives in Torrinos but ganks in EC- or a few systems further has to go back every day to Torrinos to log, would be interesting to see what happens if his victims get killrights for dieing to him in 0.0 . He might feel a tad nervous jumping into Torrinos then. As for the real big 0.0 alliances, I don't they are impacted that much. You want your people to be in 0.0 generally, making empire more dangerous for them is kinda good. And for some essential operations you can always use an alt to go to empire. So basicly punishing people for protecting their space by making them free targets in empire? How about... no. For everyone you kill in 0.0, you would have him try to get you in empire, basicly making empire as lawless as 0.0 for those who live in 0.0 and take part in combat. Damn, i got killed in 0.0... lets wait until he goes shopping and gank him when he isnt ready for it. --- The Eve Wiki Community Portal \| Eve Tribune
Frakri Hogsto	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:30:00 - [33] here is a good idea: for every roid you kill in empire/0.0 1 random (active) person should get a kill right on you -------------------------------------- What you gonna do, when I come for yoU?! --------------------------------------
Tachy	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:34:00 - [34] I like the idea because it might reduce the average blobsize. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.23 10:39:00 - [35] No is not a very good reason. Also Frakri, thank you for your input, it made for an interesting read. Also Kill Rights are not given if you fire back so I doubt fleet battles or normal combat would be giving people kill rights. Regardless of what most of you have said, which is primarily nothing but '0.0 is lawless' and 'no' the system we have is very flawed and needs to be tweaked. Example: An ore thief steals a bit of ore in Orvolle - hes flagged and open for attack for it A Pirate attacks someone in Orvolle - hes immediately blown up by Concord A Pirate in PF kills 20 people from Orvolle and then jumps to Orvolle to sell the stolen loot and hang with Concord Its ***. And needs to change.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:00:00 - [36] Originally by: Infinity Ziona No is not a very good reason. Also Frakri, thank you for your input, it made for an interesting read. Also Kill Rights are not given if you fire back so I doubt fleet battles or normal combat would be giving people kill rights. Regardless of what most of you have said, which is primarily nothing but '0.0 is lawless' and 'no' the system we have is very flawed and needs to be tweaked. Example: An ore thief steals a bit of ore in Orvolle - hes flagged and open for attack for it A Pirate attacks someone in Orvolle - hes immediately blown up by Concord A Pirate in PF kills 20 people from Orvolle and then jumps to Orvolle to sell the stolen loot and hang with Concord If he's in PF, then he's not a pirate. Pirate means a criminal, and there's no law of any kind in PF so he cannot possibly break it. So why wouldn't he hang with Concord? He's a law-abiding citizen. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:08:00 - [37] Originally by: Infinity Ziona ... No killrights in 0.0! Never had. Never is. Never will. High secs empire space is a non-PvP server. Low secs empire space is a flagged PvP server. 0.0 secs space is a pure PvP server. If you fly into 0.0, CCP transfers you to a PvP server. Expect to be killed. Killing system is working as intended. HTH. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Infinity Ziona No is not a very good reason. Also Frakri, thank you for your input, it made for an interesting read. Also Kill Rights are not given if you fire back so I doubt fleet battles or normal combat would be giving people kill rights. Regardless of what most of you have said, which is primarily nothing but '0.0 is lawless' and 'no' the system we have is very flawed and needs to be tweaked. Example: An ore thief steals a bit of ore in Orvolle - hes flagged and open for attack for it A Pirate attacks someone in Orvolle - hes immediately blown up by Concord A Pirate in PF kills 20 people from Orvolle and then jumps to Orvolle to sell the stolen loot and hang with Concord If he's in PF, then he's not a pirate. Pirate means a criminal, and there's no law of any kind in PF so he cannot possibly break it. So why wouldn't he hang with Concord? He's a law-abiding citizen. Piracy is attacking and robbing, stealing, raping, pillaging a ship for personal gratification as opposed to being paid by a government (commerce raiding). Its definition is not dependent on where it occurs.
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:12:00 - [39] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Infinity Ziona ... No killrights in 0.0! Never had. Never is. Never will. High secs empire space is a non-PvP server. Low secs empire space is a flagged PvP server. 0.0 secs space is a pure PvP server. If you fly into 0.0, CCP transfers you to a PvP server. Expect to be killed. Killing system is working as intended. HTH. Well when CCP makes you the developer then maybe you can start to make these statements of fact but apparently your not employed by them so I'll just ignore the silly things you said above.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:15:00 - [40] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Infinity Ziona ... No killrights in 0.0! Never had. Never is. Never will. High secs empire space is a non-PvP server. Low secs empire space is a flagged PvP server. 0.0 secs space is a pure PvP server. If you fly into 0.0, CCP transfers you to a PvP server. Expect to be killed. Killing system is working as intended. HTH. Well when CCP makes you the developer then maybe you can start to make these statements of fact but apparently your not employed by them so I'll just ignore the silly things you said above. You do not need to be employed by CCP to make statements of fact. It is obvious from the game mechanics themselves. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Dr Slurm	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:15:00 - [41] 0.0 allows whoever controls it to rule with impunity. It's like self defense in your own home.
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Infinity Ziona ... No killrights in 0.0! Never had. Never is. Never will. High secs empire space is a non-PvP server. Low secs empire space is a flagged PvP server. 0.0 secs space is a pure PvP server. If you fly into 0.0, CCP transfers you to a PvP server. Expect to be killed. Killing system is working as intended. HTH. Well when CCP makes you the developer then maybe you can start to make these statements of fact but apparently your not employed by them so I'll just ignore the silly things you said above. You do not need to be employed by CCP to make statements of fact. It is obvious from the game mechanics themselves. Its obvious from the game mechanics that: High sec empire space is non-PvP server? Really? Low sec empire space is flagged PvP server? Really? 0.0 space is pure PvP server? Really? Ive killed non-consentually in 1.0 systems. Ive killed consentually and non consentually in .1 systems and Ive mined there too. Ive mined and NPC'd in 0.0 for weeks without ever engaging in PvP and without ever having to run from enemy PC.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:33:00 - [43] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/06/2006 11:34:58 Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Infinity Ziona ... No killrights in 0.0! Never had. Never is. Never will. High secs empire space is a non-PvP server. Low secs empire space is a flagged PvP server. 0.0 secs space is a pure PvP server. If you fly into 0.0, CCP transfers you to a PvP server. Expect to be killed. Killing system is working as intended. HTH. Well when CCP makes you the developer then maybe you can start to make these statements of fact but apparently your not employed by them so I'll just ignore the silly things you said above. You do not need to be employed by CCP to make statements of fact. It is obvious from the game mechanics themselves. Its obvious from the game mechanics that: High sec empire space is almost non-PvP server? Really? Low sec empire space is flagged PvP server? Really? 0.0 space is pure PvP server? Really? Ive killed non-consentually in 1.0 systems. Ive killed consentually and non consentually in .1 systems and Ive mined there too. Ive mined and NPC'd in 0.0 for weeks without ever engaging in PvP and without ever having to run from enemy PC. But you forgot the most important rule in EvE, "Killing is not consentual anywhere from 0.0 to 1.0". Staying in non-PvP zones doesnt guarantee 100% safety. That is why CCP has an important game rule. If you pop ppl non-consentually in high secs, you must lose a ship. If not, ban. EDIT: Made a mistake in original post. Forgot a word. Bolded. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:37:00 - [44] I'd just like to say that 1v1 in this game is a purely absurd novelty concept. This game has never been about 1 v 1 - it's a freakin MMO! The number of ways I can win in 1 v 1 is getting pretty damn limited right there. EVE is about influence, logistics, strategy as well as the various skill there is in fighting with a group of people. All this idea is asking for is the right to sit in Keberz or Esa or whatever and gank everyone who shot you in a gate camp in the last week. It reduces the net fun of the game - it is thus automatically stupid. --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!
Just Smith	Posted - 2006.06.23 11:37:00 - [45] Lets just take out concord so you can kill anyone in empire space makes it much easyer
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.23 13:44:00 - [46] Originally by: James Duar I'd just like to say that 1v1 in this game is a purely absurd novelty concept. This game has never been about 1 v 1 - it's a freakin MMO! The number of ways I can win in 1 v 1 is getting pretty damn limited right there. EVE is about influence, logistics, strategy as well as the various skill there is in fighting with a group of people. All this idea is asking for is the right to sit in Keberz or Esa or whatever and gank everyone who shot you in a gate camp in the last week. It reduces the net fun of the game - it is thus automatically stupid. This game is about no single concept. When you understand this you will be smarter. Its not about gang warefare, its not about solo warfare, its not about ganking, its not about mining, its not about alliances, its not about corporations, it... I could go on and on and on. This game is about all of those things and more. A lot of people that post on these forums seem to think that just because they do one single thing in game that makes them happy, that the game is about only that one single thing. But its not. All this idea is about is adding some reason to reconsider killing every single person who wants to go to 0.0 and have a look. And what is this 'ganking' every person that comes through? How the hell does a single player 'gank' somebody? You think they're going to clone themselves or something? And its ironic that you complain that one of your victims could "sit in Keberz or Esa or whatever and gank everyone who shot you in a gate camp in the last week" when your probably next door in HED-GP doing the exact same thing. I think youve truly defined yourself in this post as a coward who cant take what he gives out.
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.06.23 13:49:00 - [47] How about we just make all of Empire 0.0 instead. Everyones then happy apart from Macro miners and mission runners. --------------------- Sig to come soonish.
Ozzie Asrail	Posted - 2006.06.23 13:53:00 - [48] Originally by: Infinity Ziona No is not a very good reason. Also Frakri, thank you for your input, it made for an interesting read. Also Kill Rights are not given if you fire back so I doubt fleet battles or normal combat would be giving people kill rights. Obvoiusly havnt been in many fleet fights jump, lag, lag, target, activate guns, lag, clonebay Plus even in the average large gang fight, let alone a fleet, your unlikely to have fired back upon even half the enemies on your killmail. Killrights will be very common. Originally by: Infinity Ziona Regardless of what most of you have said, which is primarily nothing but '0.0 is lawless' and 'no' the system we have is very flawed and needs to be tweaked. It's not that flawed tbh. Theres no laws in 0.0 hence no punishment. (except from what your enemies or victims can dish out to you) Originally by: Infinity Ziona Example: An ore thief steals a bit of ore in Orvolle - hes flagged and open for attack for it Pirate has broken the law in empire space. CONCORD have ruled that victims of theft may take back their propery with force. Originally by: Infinity Ziona A Pirate attacks someone in Orvolle - hes immediately blown up by Concord Pirate has broken the law in empire space. CONCORD are judge and jury. Originally by: Infinity Ziona A Pirate in PF kills 20 people from Orvolle and then jumps to Orvolle to sell the stolen loot and hang with Concord Pirate has broken no laws at all as CONCORD have no powers in 0.0 Originally by: Infinity Ziona Its ***. And needs to change. You dont have a clue what your talking about. Its fine. ----- Geotech is recruiting!
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:00:00 - [49] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Originally by: Infinity Ziona No is not a very good reason. Also Frakri, thank you for your input, it made for an interesting read. Also Kill Rights are not given if you fire back so I doubt fleet battles or normal combat would be giving people kill rights. Obvoiusly havnt been in many fleet fights jump, lag, lag, target, activate guns, lag, clonebay Plus even in the average large gang fight, let alone a fleet, your unlikely to have fired back upon even half the enemies on your killmail. Killrights will be very common. Originally by: Infinity Ziona Regardless of what most of you have said, which is primarily nothing but '0.0 is lawless' and 'no' the system we have is very flawed and needs to be tweaked. It's not that flawed tbh. Theres no laws in 0.0 hence no punishment. (except from what your enemies or victims can dish out to you) Originally by: Infinity Ziona Example: An ore thief steals a bit of ore in Orvolle - hes flagged and open for attack for it Pirate has broken the law in empire space. CONCORD have ruled that victims of theft may take back their propery with force. Originally by: Infinity Ziona A Pirate attacks someone in Orvolle - hes immediately blown up by Concord Pirate has broken the law in empire space. CONCORD are judge and jury. Originally by: Infinity Ziona A Pirate in PF kills 20 people from Orvolle and then jumps to Orvolle to sell the stolen loot and hang with Concord Pirate has broken no laws at all as CONCORD have no powers in 0.0 Originally by: Infinity Ziona Its ***. And needs to change. You dont have a clue what your talking about. Its fine. This may come as a great surprise to you but I'm actually aware of the game mechanics so your wasting your time and my time by repeating them here. Looking at your post the only relevent thing you said was regarding fleet lag. The rest was pointless and the last immature. Take care.
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:00:00 - [50] Originally by: Ozzie Asrail Originally by: Infinity Ziona No is not a very good reason. Also Frakri, thank you for your input, it made for an interesting read. Also Kill Rights are not given if you fire back so I doubt fleet battles or normal combat would be giving people kill rights. Obvoiusly havnt been in many fleet fights jump, lag, lag, target, activate guns, lag, clonebay Plus even in the average large gang fight, let alone a fleet, your unlikely to have fired back upon even half the enemies on your killmail. Killrights will be very common. Originally by: Infinity Ziona Regardless of what most of you have said, which is primarily nothing but '0.0 is lawless' and 'no' the system we have is very flawed and needs to be tweaked. It's not that flawed tbh. Theres no laws in 0.0 hence no punishment. (except from what your enemies or victims can dish out to you) Originally by: Infinity Ziona Example: An ore thief steals a bit of ore in Orvolle - hes flagged and open for attack for it Pirate has broken the law in empire space. CONCORD have ruled that victims of theft may take back their propery with force. Originally by: Infinity Ziona A Pirate attacks someone in Orvolle - hes immediately blown up by Concord Pirate has broken the law in empire space. CONCORD are judge and jury. Originally by: Infinity Ziona A Pirate in PF kills 20 people from Orvolle and then jumps to Orvolle to sell the stolen loot and hang with Concord Pirate has broken no laws at all as CONCORD have no powers in 0.0 Originally by: Infinity Ziona Its ***. And needs to change. You dont have a clue what your talking about. Its fine. This may come as a great surprise to you but I'm actually aware of the game mechanics so your wasting your time and my time by repeating them here. Looking at your post the only relevent thing you said was regarding fleet lag. The rest was pointless and the last immature. Take care.
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Infinity Ziona All this idea is about is adding some reason to reconsider killing every single person who wants to go to 0.0 and have a look. Why? the people that live in that part of 0.0 are only protecting their space. for all you know that person you didnt kill is an enemy's ALT and is scouting out the area for future attack. Originally by: Infinity Ziona And what is this 'ganking' every person that comes through? How the hell does a single player 'gank' somebody? You think they're going to clone themselves or something? No.....but a single person with half a brain can cause a headache for weak targets if they aren't put down there and then. Originally by: Infinity Ziona And its ironic that you complain that one of your victims could "sit in Keberz or Esa or whatever and gank everyone who shot you in a gate camp in the last week" when your probably next door in HED-GP doing the exact same thing. Swings and roundabouts. I think youve truly defined yourself in this post as a coward who cant take what he gives out. Of course he can take wat he gives out. He's a 0.0 dweller, PvP is part of his daily activity. Empire mission runners get respite in safe space aside from Wardecs, is there some reason why all space must be hostile space for a 0.0 player? --------------------- Sig to come soonish.
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:04:00 - [52] Originally by: Infinity Ziona All this idea is about is adding some reason to reconsider killing every single person who wants to go to 0.0 and have a look. Why? the people that live in that part of 0.0 are only protecting their space. for all you know that person you didnt kill is an enemy's ALT and is scouting out the area for future attack. Originally by: Infinity Ziona And what is this 'ganking' every person that comes through? How the hell does a single player 'gank' somebody? You think they're going to clone themselves or something? No.....but a single person with half a brain can cause a headache for weak targets if they aren't put down there and then. Originally by: Infinity Ziona And its ironic that you complain that one of your victims could "sit in Keberz or Esa or whatever and gank everyone who shot you in a gate camp in the last week" when your probably next door in HED-GP doing the exact same thing. Swings and roundabouts. I think youve truly defined yourself in this post as a coward who cant take what he gives out. Of course he can take wat he gives out. He's a 0.0 dweller,EVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums \| 203
Infinity Ziona	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:16:00 - [53] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 23/06/2006 14:21:42 Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 23/06/2006 14:18:17 Cause its a hostile game. If you can sit at a gate camp and kill people then you should be able to defend yourself from them as well. If you cant then TFL. Also 0.0 alliance peeps get respite as well. In fact I would say deep 0.0 is quite a lot more profitable and safer then empire space. Anyway the point is moot as it wont be changed anyway but it was nice to see the carebear in the so called 'protectors of 0.0'
Ozzie Asrail	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:26:00 - [54] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 23/06/2006 14:18:17 Cause its a hostile game. If you can sit at a gate camp and kill people then you should be able to defend yourself from them as well. If you cant then TFL. Also 0.0 alliance peeps get respite as well. In fact I would say deep 0.0 is quite a lot more profitable and safer then empire space. Are you now arguing against your OP? If you go into 0.0 then you should be able to defend yourself. If you can't then TFL. Deep 0.0 is only safe becuase you have 1000+ people helping you keep it safe. ----- Geotech is recruiting!
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:28:00 - [55] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Piracy is attacking and robbing, stealing, raping, pillaging a ship for personal gratification as opposed to being paid by a government (commerce raiding). Its definition is not dependent on where it occurs. But it IS dependent on legality. In PF, he has an absolute right to take the stuff from you. Just like you have a right to kill him. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Tyrus Ex	Posted - 2006.06.23 14:33:00 - [56] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Its very unrealistic to think that you can 'go to zero zero and kill them' without you having to fight the entire alliance as well. LOL
James Duar	Posted - 2006.06.23 16:13:00 - [57] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: James Duar I'd just like to say that 1v1 in this game is a purely absurd novelty concept. This game has never been about 1 v 1 - it's a freakin MMO! The number of ways I can win in 1 v 1 is getting pretty damn limited right there. EVE is about influence, logistics, strategy as well as the various skill there is in fighting with a group of people. All this idea is asking for is the right to sit in Keberz or Esa or whatever and gank everyone who shot you in a gate camp in the last week. It reduces the net fun of the game - it is thus automatically stupid. This game is about no single concept. When you understand this you will be smarter. Its not about gang warefare, its not about solo warfare, its not about ganking, its not about mining, its not about alliances, its not about corporations, it... I could go on and on and on. Or perhaps I do understand this and was referring specifically to the concepts you were referring to - PVP and killrights. God forbid I talk about how those tend to work in a thread dedicated to the subject. Originally by: Infinity Ziona This game is about all of those things and more. A lot of people that post on these forums seem to think that just because they do one single thing in game that makes them happy, that the game is about only that one single thing. But its not. Well duh, see above. Originally by: Infinity Ziona All this idea is about is adding some reason to reconsider killing every single person who wants to go to 0.0 and have a look. And what is this 'ganking' every person that comes through? How the hell does a single player 'gank' somebody? You think they're going to clone themselves or something? When I'm in Empire I fly indy's, I fly frigates, I don't fly around armed for combat if I'm not at war (I've never been at war yet actually). Originally by: Infinity Ziona And its ironic that you complain that one of your victims could "sit in Keberz or Esa or whatever and gank everyone who shot you in a gate camp in the last week" when your probably next door in HED-GP doing the exact same thing. Actually I've never participated in a gate camp either, though I've run a fair few in my time. You'd also note from my alliance that we don't kill anyone, we kill those who pirate in our space. Play nice and Huzzah do not bother you. Originally by: Infinity Ziona I think youve truly defined yourself in this post as a coward who cant take what he gives out. Correction: you've truly defined yourself as having a personal vendetta against alliance play/gate camp tactics by the assumptions you've made about me in this response. --- Encrypted Client Side Bookmarks! Raise YOUR voice to CCP. Let's end slow copy times and bookmark lag for good!

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