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Nicholas Cromwell
The Last of Earth
5
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Posted - 2014.07.02 13:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just got myself a Tayra, a cart filled with skillbooks and a lot of modules for it, but it was enough for me to look at the contracts and get pissed off.
From: Jita IV Moon IV
To: Couster II Moon I
Quantity (cubic meters): 6300
Reward: 1 million ISK
Collateral: 60 million ISK
Why is the collateral so high? I see that all the jobs have collateral at least 50x higher than the reward, and I am finding it quite impossible to find any decent courier jobs.
The collateral for the courier jobs IS TOO DAMN HIGH!
Aegroto dum anima est, spes est. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
Repeat 0ffenders
900
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 14:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Free market, man.
Someone is accepting that level of collateral, you have no choice but to compete.
Red Frog for example allows for up to 1 Bil ISK collateral, even if you're paying just a couple of Mil. |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
477
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Posted - 2014.07.02 14:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Collateral is based on the value of the goods.
It is not based on the reward.
It is not based on how many jumps the job is.
I value my goods highly so I put a large collateral to stop people stealing it. |
Christina Trild
Dead Rune Holder
Dead Rune Society
7
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Posted - 2014.07.02 14:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nicholas Cromwell wrote:Just got myself a Tayra, a cart filled with skillbooks and a lot of modules for it, but it was enough for me to look at the contracts and get pissed off.
From: Jita IV Moon IV
To: Couster II Moon I
Quantity (cubic meters): 6300
Reward: 1 million ISK
Collateral: 60 million ISK
Why is the collateral so high? I see that all the jobs have collateral at least 50x higher than the reward, and I am finding it quite impossible to find any decent courier jobs.
The collateral for the courier jobs IS TOO DAMN HIGH!
People value their stuff, they don't base it off market prices. If I for example haul a bunch of minerals worth 500m jita price, I'll put it up for 700m. Why? because I value my time. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2044
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Posted - 2014.07.02 14:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nicholas Cromwell wrote:The collateral for the courier jobs IS TOO DAMN HIGH!
have you ever wondered why heart surgeons earn more money than truck drivers? now you know.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
361
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Posted - 2014.07.02 15:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
You're right that haulers don't get paid a lot, which is why lots of traders outsource their hauling to other players. Rather than working for someone else, why not try trading yourself and see if you still want to haul after you start making ISK?
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Nicholas Cromwell
The Last of Earth
5
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Posted - 2014.07.02 15:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well then, how do I start trading?
Aegroto dum anima est, spes est. |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
477
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Posted - 2014.07.02 15:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
You buy stuff then sell it for more isk than you paid. Taking into account NPC taxes.
The hard part of trading is knowing what items to buy. You really need to research the price history of an item to find out if its profitable. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
2045
|
Posted - 2014.07.02 17:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nicholas Cromwell wrote:Well then, how do I start trading?
you start by reading this forum once in a while. there is a lot of knowledge to be picked up by lurking here.
aside from that, just look at what the game (in combination with some third party sites and tools) has to offer and find opportunities for turning your time and effort into ISK.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Lady Zarrina
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
137
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Posted - 2014.07.02 20:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
if you want to trade, buy low, sell high. Some people will do it in the same station. Some will transport goods from region to region.
But if you are going to transport goods in a T1 Hauler, be very prepared to die often, especially around major trade hubs.
damn it is hard to delete my signature |
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Plleasure Hub
Space Goat Logistics
34
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Posted - 2014.07.02 23:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
I was asking about setting collateral prices in PUSH's public channel, and they recommended +15% market price as a good rule of thumb. They said that if someone is consistently setting their collateral too high, they would be contacted, but ultimately the collateral is what value you place on the goods.
I try to stick to that rule for items I intend to sell. Raw materials are trickier, however. If the freighter pilot gets popped with my 1.5B load of mats, how long will it take me to replace those through new buy orders? How much will it cost me in lost time and potential profits as it delays my manufacturing jobs? The real cost is potentially much greater than the market price of the goods in that kind of scenario.
In a healthy system, the potential cost to you as well as the hauler have to be considered in tandem.
"There's no meaningful difference between a real and a virtual world. It's pointless to ask anyone who they really are. All you can do is accept and believe in them, because whoever they are in your mind, is their true identity." GÇö Kazuto Kirigaya |
Derrick Miles
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2014.07.02 23:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you're just starting out try running some distribution missions. Instead of your Tayra grab a Badger (because they align faster and still have the cargo for the missions) and go find some agents in systems with a lot of connections. Doing these missions is pretty boring but if you get a good level 3 agent you can grind standings pretty fast as well while building up the capital you'll need to do some trading. My recommendation, once you get access to level 3 agents, is to head over to Itamo and run missions for Totsikka Enakiri from Rapid Assembly. This agent is nice because the average mission is only 1.5 jumps and only takes a few minutes. It's also 2 jumps from Jita so you can do some research on the markets for which items you want to buy, and even buy and sell in Jita when you have a couple skills trained. To get your Caldari Navy standings up (Caldari Navy and Caldari faction standings are what affect your Broker's Fee in Jita) just do 15 missions in Itamo and then head to Sobaseki to do the 16th, where the storyline agent is from Caldari Navy. Good luck. |
Anne Kingston
Golden Phoenix Propulsion Laboratory
Brave Collective
18
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Posted - 2014.07.03 01:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
My Friend, if you are interested in Hauling and Trading, congrats, you found a nice niche. What you can do, fine sir, is locate goods between two markets (read: Amarr - Jita) and find a significant price gap between the goods. Take from one, sell to the other, voila. You are a trader and a truck driver. Keep this up and eventually you can sell your Industrial or buy a Freighter if you love the live style.
Sometimes when using redfrog I'll put my collateral at 1bil even if it's no where close. Why? If they happen to get ganked suddenly I made money. Oops, I just gave away a secret. Good luck out there. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
3199
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Posted - 2014.07.03 05:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Plleasure Hub wrote:I was asking about setting collateral prices in PUSH's public channel, and they recommended +15% market price as a good rule of thumb. They said that if someone is consistently setting their collateral too high, they would be contacted, but ultimately the collateral is what value you place on the goods.
I try to stick to that rule for items I intend to sell. Raw materials are trickier, however. If the freighter pilot gets popped with my 1.5B load of mats, how long will it take me to replace those through new buy orders? How much will it cost me in lost time and potential profits as it delays my manufacturing jobs? The real cost is potentially much greater than the market price of the goods in that kind of scenario.
In a healthy system, the potential cost to you as well as the hauler have to be considered in tandem.
I use the following to work out collateral:
Goods I intend to sell at present market prices and do not expect trouble moving: 99.5% of sell order price
Goods I intend to sell after minor market manipulation: 98% of what I hope to sell them for
Goods I intend to use in production: 105% of purchase price, plus 150% of consequential losses I'd suffer due to supply chain disruption.
Goods intended for personal consumption (e.g. moving 20 gank Vexors and fittings to a place I'm staging ganks from): 105% of purchase price, plus 100m per 10 minutes of lost 'fun time' if they don't get there
Collaterals can be, of course, set much higher if I intend the courier to fail, although I haven't done that for a while (never really got any takers on trap contracts).
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=346564 - a proposal to overhaul the Logistics skill
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content.
www.minerbumping.com - ganking miners and causing chaos |
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